Date   

Re: QUESTION ON SANTA FE Sk-L STOCK CAR

charles slater
 

Yes they did I think in the 1920's.
Charlie Slater

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From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 1:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] QUESTION ON SANTA FE Sk-L STOCK CAR
 
When delivered these s  stock/coke cars (58000 series)  did not have end ladders.  As the cars lasted into the 1950's were end ladders ever added?

Thanks for any help.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Question On Santa Fe Sk-L Stock Car



Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Aley, Jeff A
 

Guys,

 

               Many thanks for delving into these details to find the answer to my question (and confusion)!  I am grateful to your for taking the time.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Parker via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 6:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

 

Dennis, I think you hit the nail on the head.  I am not sure the EXW had to occur above 12 ft, but rather that it be up near the eaves somewhere.  So, a car might have been right at 12 ft to the eaves (or actually the lat running board), but the the relevant widest point could have been the upper door track at something like 11-8 high or thereabouts.  I agree this could account for a lot of the confusion we have been discussing.  It follows then that the EXH dimension for stenciling may not be knowable from the ORER if the reporting road used one of the low protrusions at ~5 ft for the EXH entry. 

I note in passing that some roads seem to have never complied with this part of the standard.  I hoard B&M house-car photos, but have never seen an EXW and EXH stencil on one.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dave Parker
 

Dennis:

A good place to see some of the variation in how the EXH and EXW stencils were applied is to leaf through Ted's FOFC volume 9.  Most of the cars there had '34 or '35 reweigh dates, so it's early days. Some cars didn't have these stencils, but many did, and the format varied.  Some of this looks to be simple exigencies due to the presence of the truss members on these SS cars.

I'm not sure what changed in 1936, but note this wording in the 1929 Proceedings:



So, it seems that the initial idea was not include the "X", but instead the two sets of width and height figures would be differentiated only by the order presented.  Again referring to FOFC 9, I can find a couple of examples of this, but it looks like many roads went ahead and used the "X" to make it unambiguous as to which was which.

This is pretty speculative, but I have yet to find anything about these stencils after the 1929 Proceedings.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Photo: OSL Gondola 26799 With Lump Coal (1921)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: OSL Gondola 26799 With Lump Coal (1921)

A photo from the Utah State Historical Society:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6q54z70

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Lion Coal Company tipple at, Lionkol, Wyoming.

Interior view:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6qj9rwq

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photos: John Cobb's Race Car In A Box On A Flat Car (1938)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: John Cobb's Race Car In A Box On A Flat Car (1938)

Photos from the University of Utah Library:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s69k4zt1

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s696055p

These photos can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description:

Photo of John Cobb's racing vehicle, the "Railton Mobil Special," in a box on a flatbed train car with an unidentified man standing behind it near the Bonneville Salt Flats Raceway in 1938 (possibly outside Wendover, Utah)

The car:

http://www.railtonwaterspeed.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Cobb-in-Railton-Mobile-Special.jpg

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 10:17 PM, Dave Parker wrote:
No Idea why the B&M did not apply these stencils on so many other cars.  But I think there are other examples out there as well, certainly for individual cars well past the 1930 implementation date.  I hesitate to say this, but I don't see them on any PRR cars in my rather meager collection either.  But then I don't have anything built later than the X29s.
I think the reason was that these are low cars... admittedly your B&M example is 12'-5" to the eaves, but it had also been on the road a few years when the stenciling change was implemented in 1930. The requirement that all cars higher than 12'-0" at the eaves sounds rather arbitrary, and I'm sure that the railroad mechanical officers knew it. They also knew that the intent of the rule was to get these new dimensions stenciled on the new 10'-0" IH cars then being ordered by some roads, and indeed the car builders seemed to be cooperating. Existing cars in the fleet obviously weren't bumping anything and weren't changed

There was some sort of revision in 1936, it's mentioned in the 1946 CBC without saying what was revised, but I suspect that is when the format having the extreme width and height on one line and the eave width and height on the next line was implemented, which is easy to pick out in photos because the top two lines are longer and the block of data looks ragged. There was another variation of this arrangement, much favored by the Canadian National, where the size of the lettering in these two top lines is reduced and condensed so the data block becomes rectangular again. Some photos of 1950's era B&M cars on the Fallen Flags web site show that B&M adopted this practice also in the blue car era.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Salt weathering

Dave Parker
 

If you search the archived messages for "galvanized roof", you get 268 hits.  So it seems like we have covered this topic in the past.

My two cents worth can be found in message 152181. 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Salt weathering

Jim Betz
 

Eric,

  Thanks for sharing John Golden's step by step for salt weathering.

All,

  1)  When did the use of galvanized on roofs become ubiquitous?  I
       associate "peeling paint on the roof" with more modern cars.  Am
       I wrong?

  2) How common/uncommon would it be to see a galvanized roof
      combined with wood roof walks?

  3) John Golden mentions using a dark color for roof cement as a base
       color for salt weathering.  I don't associate dark roofs and peeling
       paint as common.  Am I wrong on that one?

  I suspect that many (most?) freight car models - especially those that
are RTR (or, for me, RTW = ready to weather because every car that I
consider ready to run is also weathered).  It seems like replacing
the roof walks is a common "to do" for our cars if they are the heavily
and accurately researched resin models.
                                                                                        - Jim


Re: N&W 1950 boxcar color

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Jim, That's what I was thinking but wasn't sure.  Wanted an experts opinion
Fenton


On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 10:00 AM James Brewer <jim.brewer.3611@...> wrote:
Fenton,

I have always used Scalecoat II S2013 Boxcar Red, a/k/a Boxcar Red #1; it is more brown than red; also, Yarmouth Model Works recommends this color for painting their N&W B-5 boxcar kits.

Jim Brewer



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: N&W 1950 boxcar color

James Brewer
 

Fenton,

I have always used Scalecoat II S2013 Boxcar Red, a/k/a Boxcar Red #1; it is more brown than red; also, Yarmouth Model Works recommends this color for painting their N&W B-5 boxcar kits.

Jim Brewer


Salt weathering

Eric Hansmann
 

John Golden shares his salt weathering techniques and results in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 
http://blog.resincarworks.com/salt-weathering/


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: Teens and Twenties shipments of Ford cars via box cars

James Cummings
 

I believe Sylvan offers a 1950's Studebaker also.


Re: QUESTION ON SANTA FE Sk-L STOCK CAR

Jim Gates
 

The ones rebuilt and renumbered into the 52000 series certainly did. There were other minor rebuilding programs, so most if, not all probably got ladders, but I have not seen photos showing that. Steve Sandifer should know.

Jim Gates

On Sunday, September 6, 2020, 03:59:14 PM CDT, WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:


When delivered these s  stock/coke cars (58000 series)  did not have end ladders.  As the cars lasted into the 1950's were end ladders ever added?

Thanks for any help.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Question On Santa Fe Sk-L Stock Car



Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dave Parker
 

Well, I knew as soon as I wrote that someone would find an exception.

My excuse is that those steel cars are from the future.  I have never seen the EXW and EXH stencils on a 36-ft car, a USRA car, or an XM-1, regardless of when the photo was taken.  Including this one:



No Idea why the B&M did not apply these stencils on so many other cars.  But I think there are other examples out there as well, certainly for individual cars well past the 1930 implementation date.  I hesitate to say this, but I don't see them on any PRR cars in my rather meager collection either.  But then I don't have anything built later than the X29s.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 05:59 PM, Dave Parker wrote:
I note in passing that some roads seem to have never complied with this part of the standard.  I hoard B&M house-car photos, but have never seen an EXW and EXH stencil on one.
Are you sure? Both 40' steel boxcars on this Protocraft page have them:
https://protocraft48.com/category.cfm?ItemID=919&Categoryid=20

Dennis Storzek


Re: Loading Grain In A Refrigerator Car (1918)

Tony Thompson
 

Why not? Because ice cars were always damp inside?
Tony Thompson 


On Sep 6, 2020, at 5:16 PM, Ray Hutchison <rayhutchison2@...> wrote:

Although, why not?  An efficient way to load grain into a car, and the reefers may have been on return shipment, or simply out of season.  Ery interesting, and another example of something that can be modeled ('that's not prototypical')!


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dave Parker
 

Dennis, I think you hit the nail on the head.  I am not sure the EXW had to occur above 12 ft, but rather that it be up near the eaves somewhere.  So, a car might have been right at 12 ft to the eaves (or actually the lat running board), but the the relevant widest point could have been the upper door track at something like 11-8 high or thereabouts.  I agree this could account for a lot of the confusion we have been discussing.  It follows then that the EXH dimension for stenciling may not be knowable from the ORER if the reporting road used one of the low protrusions at ~5 ft for the EXH entry. 

I note in passing that some roads seem to have never complied with this part of the standard.  I hoard B&M house-car photos, but have never seen an EXW and EXH stencil on one.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Teens and Twenties shipments of Ford cars via box cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Ken,

Alloy Forms used to offer a cast metal Studebaker kit, but it isn't on their current web pages. IIRC, these were 1950 Studebaker Champion two-door coupes, one of those cars with the really weird curved back window. Of course there was no plastic window insert in the kit. I've still got at least one around here someplace, and it's still in the package since I couldn't figure out how to do that rear window. Maybe someday it will appear in a junkyard scene.

It might be getting off topic here, but I learned to drive in a 1962 Lark.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 5:56 PM Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:
One of my model railroad friends, Alan Mende, who also is a Studebaker collector, had the following additions to Andy's photo:

These appear to be 1954 Studebaker bodies because it was that year that Studebaker started building station wagons.  The brownish bodies are the wagons.  The rest are either coupes (with a B pillar) or hardtops (without a B pillar).  I like Tony's model.  He can get HO scale Studebaker cars and trucks through Sylvan Scale Models.  They make the bullet nose Studebakers as well as the 1953 hardtops and early 50s trucks in many body styles.


From Ken Montero




On 09/04/2020 4:37 PM Andy Jackson <lajrmdlr@...> wrote:


Here's what looks to me to be Studebakers "stuffed" into a Santa Fe drop bottom gondola. Think these autos only included everything from firewall back, i.e. no motor, body & chassis in front of it. Studebaker had a plant on Los Angeles Junction Ry till it closed in 1956.  A fellow LAJ modeler. Tony Debates,  made the Studebaker plant for his layout (attached).
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA




Re: Loading Grain In A Refrigerator Car (1918)

Ray Hutchison
 

Although, why not?  An efficient way to load grain into a car, and the reefers may have been on return shipment, or simply out of season.  Ery interesting, and another example of something that can be modeled ('that's not prototypical')!


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 11:38 AM, Dave Parker wrote:
Dave,
Do I interpret the second point correctly that they only want the extreme width that occurs above 12 feet over the rail, and the height to it? That would make sense if they were mainly concerned with tunnel clearances, as the top corners of the car would be most likely to impinge on the tunnel lining, but this puts this dimension at variance with what is reported in the ORER, which is looking for the widest point of the whole car and the height to it. That may be where some of the confusion comes from, and also explains the comment that one doesn't see low numbers in the EWH stenciling.

Dennis Storzek