Date   

Re: What car is this on the Rio Grande?

mopacfirst
 

While I concede that the silver-painted 10'-6" car is a possibility, I'm pretty sure I see a double door, so I'd go with dark-colored car with lots of white or light gray material on it.

Ron Merrick


Re: Photo: B&O Boxcar 175574 (1940)

Eric Hansmann
 

The B&O literally had thousands of boxcars with left-opening doors.

 

Both of the double-sheathed cars in the Pittsburgh image are from the M-15 class, but there were a number of sub-classes with individual hardware characteristics. I do not know how many M-15 cars had the left-opening doors, but it was a common feature. For several years in the 1920s, the M-15 class was the most numerous boxcar on the B&O. The heavy underframe became the basis for rebuilding many into the  M-15k subclass; the familiar wagon-top boxcars.

 

There were also thousands of M-8 class 36-ft double-sheathed boxcars with left-opening doors. Many of the M-8 cars started moving off regular service as the steel-sheathed M-26 cars came into the fleet in the mid-1920s. The majority were scrapped but many moved to maintenance service. There were 9988 M-8 and subclass cars on the 1926 B&O ORER listings. These were gone by the 1943 ORER.

 

The M-13 and M-14 classes were also 36-ft double-sheathed boxcars with left-opening doors. These cars had a distinctive fishbelly side sill. The M-14 class were originally ventilated cars but rebuilt into M-14a boxcars in the 1920s. 4366 of these cars were listed in the 1926 ORER. By the 1943 listings, these had dwindled to 62 cars.

 

The M-12 class were similar to the M-13 cars and installed during PRR control in 1902. These were a variation on the Pennsy XL boxcar design. Of the 1239 cars listed in the 1926 ORER, only nine cars were in the 1943 ORER.

 

Look how interesting the earlier freight car fleet can be!!

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vincent altiere via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 10:05 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: B&O Boxcar 175574 (1940)

 

Bob-

 

Looking at that photo, it appears that the car farthest from the camera has a door that opens to the left. Do you know what B&O class of boxcars that might belong to ?? I wasn't aware the B&O had that type of car.

 

Vince Altiere

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2020 10:29 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: B&O Boxcar 175574 (1940)

Photo: B&O Boxcar 175574 (1940)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Two additional B&O boxcars in the photo.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


ADMIN: RealSTMFC List Rules

Aley, Jeff A
 

Hi Folks,

 

               We’ve had some great new people join RealSTMFC recently.  And unfortunately, I neglected to send them a copy of the RealSTMFC rules.  So here they are, for all of us (new members and old) to review and follow.   You can find a copy here: https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/files/STMFC%20Rules2011.eml

 

 

The objectives include the sharing of information about North American, standard gauge railroad freight cars in the period 1900-1960 inclusive including their operation, distribution and the various techniques of building models of them. Discussions about the cargos of freight cars are permitted but only as they are directly associated with a freight car. Emphasis is to be placed on the study of the prototype with a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as possible. It should be noted that discussions by the group's members includes questions and answers regarding the group's subject. However, it should also be noted that the group is not to be considered necessarily as a library with its members prepared to respond to questions or acting as sources for information.  Such responses are entirely voluntary and at no time is any group member obligated to respond to a request for information.  In fact, the group is not a good vehicle to transmit large amounts of information. The group is a good vehicle, however, to provide guidance as to where a member might find information.

 

Announcements about prototype modeling events is within scope.

 

Personal attacks on other members or manufacturers is expressly prohibited and may result in expulsion from the group. Members are expected to conduct themselves in a gentlemanly manner. Personal attacks on anyone including non-members is not permitted.

 

Members are permitted to criticize or praise manufacturer's products free from criticism from other members. Criticism of a manufacturer's business practices is, however, not within the scope of the group.

 

ALL SUBJECTS OTHER THAN THOSE DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS ARE PROHIBITED FROM MEMBER MESSAGES. Thus, all admin, security, or "policing" functions will be conducted only by myself or my representatives. Warnings about virus activity is strictly prohibited. Threads or subjects may be terminated only by myself or my representatives. When threads/subjects are terminated, members are expected to avoid sending messages associated with such threads/subjects.

 

All references to politics or political views are prohibited.

 

Placing photos in the file space involves issues associated with copyright and property rights. Members are allowed to upload photos into the file and/or photo spaces but only those photos that the members took themselves or those for which they have permission from the photo seller or other source to present on the internet for public consumption. Members are expected to obtain by themselves the necessary permissions. Failure to do so could result in the member being excluded from using the file and photo spaces. All photos placed in the file space are for personal use only by

members of the STMFC and any rights for other usage must be negotiated with the party holding rights to the photo's usage. Photos placed in the STMFC file space must include in the description the source of the photo.

 

Announcements of frt car related items for sell are permitted BUT actual lists of items should be made available from the seller upon request rather than in the message. Announcements of such sells should be kept at a minimum. The primary objective of the group is to exchange information concerning the subject.

 

Messages regarding the selling of products as part of a commercial enterprise must be sent during the period of noon Friday EST and Saturday midnight EST.

Each seller is allowed one message unless a correction is needed. Seller messages MUST include OFF GROUP addresses for replies. Replies by members to seller messages MUST be OFF GROUP.

 

Members must sign messages with their full names. If the member's address IS their full name exactly [ to the left of an @ sign ] or simply their full name, that is acceptable as a signature.

 

 

Thanks for your cooperation!

 

-Jeff Aley,

Deputy Moderator, RealSTMFC

 

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Loading Grain In A Refrigerator Car (1918) now fluorspar

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Group;

 

I can second Josh’s memories.  Fluorite (or Fluorspar; a.k.a. “Spar”) was indeed used in blast furnaces to promote slag formation.  I recall seeing IC (and other) hoppers with purplish crystals being pushed into the incoming yards at USS back in the day, and being very curious about what it was.  My very good mill friends told me much later.  It was added to the burden via the skip hoist thru the bell at the top of the BF.  A lot of fluorspar was mined in southern Illinois.

 

I dare all y’all to model that!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2020 4:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Loading Grain In A Refrigerator Car (1918)

 

I saw this image and thought "huh, that looks familiar."

Then I realized that I literally drove past that elevator yesterday afternoon. You can see the location on google maps here: Blockedhttps://www.google.com/maps/@39.3670186,-112.5858464,3a,75y,144.54h,97.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP4EH_FyLKvQSwaxC7QPrlA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

This spur is screaming with "model railroad" details. There is this little elevator, an oil dealership, and a large truck loading dock where fluorite from the Bell Hill mines northwest of Delta was transferred to gondolas to be shipped to the Geneva Steel plant in Vineyard Utah. Fluorite was used as a flux in the smelting process; it's bright purple, so imagine a train of open hoppers filled with neon lavender rocks. That's a load that will set your layout apart!

 

You can see a larger-resolution version of the image here: Blockedhttps://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s63208r9


Re: Swift Tank Car

Gavin
 

Salt brine perhaps? or blood and fat for rending


On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 6:12 PM Gordon <boomer1944@...> wrote:
OK... what would Swift need a tank car for?

Gordon Spalty


Re: Photo: B&O Boxcar 175574 (1940)

Benjamin Hom
 

Vince Altiere asked:
"Looking at that photo, it appears that the car farthest from the camera has a door that opens to the left. Do you know what B&O class of boxcars that might belong to? I wasn't aware the B&O had that type of car."
https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.4054768.CP

Class M-15H or M-15J, obsolescent double-sheathed automobile boxcars converted to general service boxcars by removing the right-opening door and sheathing over the opening, creating cars with left-opening doors.  Kits available in HO scale from Westerfield.
https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=99_373&products_id=317

As railroads adopted Evans automobile loaders, lower-height automobile boxcars were repurposed as general service boxcars, first through the expedient of securing auxiliary doors, then by minor rebuilding by removing auxiliary doors and sheathing over the opening.  PRR Class X28/X28A is an example of early steel automobile boxcars that underwent this conversion, and other examples include N&W Class BP/BPA and CNJ.


Ben Hom





Re: What car is this on the Rio Grande?

Bruce Smith
 

Folks, Brian,

My first thought was the same. I’m guessing that Ben’s evaluation was based on what appears to be a reddish end, with some variation in the intensity of the lighter side color. However, given the size/resolution of the image, I’m not sure how anyone can tell much of anything. There are limits to even the best of our abilities!  I tried to blow it up and it was too low a resolution to see anything but pixels. I would suggest that Scott find and post a higher resolution image. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn Al

On Sep 9, 2020, at 9:57 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

Assuming we are talking about the 5th car my first thought was one of the silver PS-1s western RailwAy of Alabama or affiliated lines. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Sep 9, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:


Scott McDonald asked:
"The photo below was posted on the Rio Grande Historical Society Facebook page by Parker Wilson from his collection. I am reposting here with his permission.  Does anybody know what the silver car is? It looks like there is a BX-11 or 12 raised roof behind it so it is pretty tall."

<FB_IMG_1599659297502.jpg>

That's not a silver car, but a red car with white staining.  Assuming that the car behind it is a raided roof Bx-12/Bx-13 (10 ft 6 in IH), my guess is it's a 40 ft steel automobile boxcar.


Ben Hom

<FB_IMG_1599659297502.jpg>


Re: Loading Grain In A Refrigerator Car (1918)

Jim Allen
 

Ron Mitchell and I were there about 1.5 years ago. The main the eye connects too belongs to the UP.   There were numerous cars sitting on that spur for active maintenance. I’m sure that spur is not in regular use. One loading dock is still there as well as all other buildings. 

Jim Allen. 

Jim Allen
Visit www.oscaledirectory.com


--
Jim Allen
Utah


Re: Loading Grain In A Refrigerator Car (1918)

Jim Allen
 

These ramps were also used for sugar beets. 

Jim Allen
Visit www.oscaledirectory.com


--
Jim Allen
Utah


Paper Grain Doors 1947

Matt Smith
 

Great shot of paper grain doors in use 1947. Pantagraph collection of IDA. High res can be downloaded in upper right corner of page.

http://www.idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll63/id/5685/rec/115
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL


Re: Photo: B&O Boxcar 175574 (1940)

vincent altiere <steel77086@...>
 

Bob-

Looking at that photo, it appears that the car farthest from the camera has a door that opens to the left. Do you know what B&O class of boxcars that might belong to ?? I wasn't aware the B&O had that type of car.

Vince Altiere


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2020 10:29 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: B&O Boxcar 175574 (1940)

Photo: B&O Boxcar 175574 (1940)
A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:
Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.
Two additional B&O boxcars in the photo.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: What car is this on the Rio Grande?

Brian Carlson
 

Assuming we are talking about the 5th car my first thought was one of the silver PS-1s western RailwAy of Alabama or affiliated lines. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Sep 9, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:


Scott McDonald asked:
"The photo below was posted on the Rio Grande Historical Society Facebook page by Parker Wilson from his collection. I am reposting here with his permission.  Does anybody know what the silver car is? It looks like there is a BX-11 or 12 raised roof behind it so it is pretty tall."

<FB_IMG_1599659297502.jpg>

That's not a silver car, but a red car with white staining.  Assuming that the car behind it is a raided roof Bx-12/Bx-13 (10 ft 6 in IH), my guess is it's a 40 ft steel automobile boxcar.


Ben Hom

<FB_IMG_1599659297502.jpg>


Re: What car is this on the Rio Grande?

Benjamin Hom
 

Scott McDonald asked:
"The photo below was posted on the Rio Grande Historical Society Facebook page by Parker Wilson from his collection. I am reposting here with his permission.  Does anybody know what the silver car is? It looks like there is a BX-11 or 12 raised roof behind it so it is pretty tall."


That's not a silver car, but a red car with white staining.  Assuming that the car behind it is a raided roof Bx-12/Bx-13 (10 ft 6 in IH), my guess is it's a 40 ft steel automobile boxcar.


Ben Hom


Re: Loading plaster, was Grain, In A Refrigerator Car (1918)

Randy Hees
 

At the south edge of Las Vegas at Arden, the Arden Plaster Company mined and processed architectural plaster products from c.1907 to 1929.  The majority of their production was shipped to southern California. (the Company was headquartered in Pasadena)  There is a substantial collection of waybills held at the Nevada State Museum in Las Vegas.  Those include reporting marks.  Shipments to Southern CA are primarily via refrigerator cars, mostly PFE, but also Santa Fe...  Shipments east are made in box cars.  Plaster is moisture sensitive, so they must have been dry cars.  The high grade plaster was likely clean enough to not contaminate the cars.

I postulate that the round trip was quick, on a single railroad, (orignally the San Pedro, Los Angeles & Salt Lake, later the Los Angeles and Salt Lake, allways associated if not controlled by UP) preventing the cars from straying off system.  The short turn around (5-7 days) allowed use of refrigerator cars being held for scheduled shipments, and getting some revenue from an otherwise static car.  

By the way, Arden Plaster operated a 5 mile long 3' narrow gauge railroad connecting their plant with the mines.

Randy Hees


Photo: B&O Boxcar 175574 (1940)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: B&O Boxcar 175574 (1940)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.4054768.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Two additional B&O boxcars in the photo.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Pittsburgh & Shawmut Railroad Dump Car M-24 (1954)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Pittsburgh & Shawmut Railroad Dump Car M-24 (1954)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A31-PandS-6-M-24

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


What car is this on the Rio Grande?

Scott
 

The photo below was posted on the Rio Grande Historical Society Facebook page by Parker Wilson from his collection. I am reposting here with his permission.  Does anybody know what the silver car is? It looks like there is a BX-11 or 12 raised roof behind it so it is pretty tall.

Thanks
Scott McDonald 


Re: Swift Tank Car

Barry Bennett
 

And lots of blood and urine.

Barry Bennett

On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 at 12:19, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:
Gordon,

How about fat? Animal fats are a valuable byproduct of slaughter houses. They are used in all sorts of other products from cosmetics to explosives (think glycerine).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:12 PM Gordon <boomer1944@...> wrote:
OK... what would Swift need a tank car for?

Gordon Spalty


Re: Swift Tank Car

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Gordon,

How about fat? Animal fats are a valuable byproduct of slaughter houses. They are used in all sorts of other products from cosmetics to explosives (think glycerine).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:12 PM Gordon <boomer1944@...> wrote:
OK... what would Swift need a tank car for?

Gordon Spalty


Re: Loading Grain In A Refrigerator Car (1918)

Ray Hutchison
 

...except when they were dried out and used for grain service?

11261 - 11280 of 188621