Date   

ANC rolling stock images

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I stumbled upon some images of ANC (Atlantic & North Carolina?) rolling stock - see images below...
 
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 


Re: Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Here's a screen grab with a bit of Photoshop magic of the tank car at the Iron City Brewery. It is marked I. R. Co. 32, and appears to be an AC&F Type 7. Another very interesting tank car is behind it, but sadly only the dome is visible.

Yours Aye,


Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆




On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 1:36 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133908.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Photo editing software will bring out the detail.

The car appears to be I.R Co. 3_2 with full-length running boards and hand rails.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: L&N boom and tool car 42296

Tony Thompson
 

     Very nice-looking boom car, good job fading the paint. But I have never seen a boom car this clean <g>. Probably it still needs the grease and oil stains and general dirt that come with service . . . not a criticism, just a suggestion.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


HI Eric and List Members,
 
Eric wrote: "The next car has a Pennsy heritage look, but the markings are not readable"
 
Likely a PRR class XL boxcar. The left opening flush-mounted door and the fishbelly side frames are powerful evidence for this
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

That’s a great string of classic freight cars. A well-worn B&LE gondola is at the far right. The Rock Island furniture boxcar is easy to identify. It is one of 213 cars in the 60500-60749 series. The 1917 ORER has these designated as XA. Under the Class column they are Furniture-Auto, but a note indicates only cars with double end-doors are for automobile loading.

 

An SP boxcar is next followed by an older NC&StL truss rod car. The next car has a Pennsy heritage look, but the markings are not readable. It’s difficult to see if there is a ladder grab on the car end. A roof grab looks like it might be above a ladder that is closer to the center of the car end. The hand brake wheel looks like it is right of the coupler, too.

 

An MP truss rod car follows with a composite gon at the far left just behind a locomotive. Cool stuff!

 


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 12:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

 

Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.174558.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Safety Appliance details - was Photo: PRR Boxcar 515355 (1912)

Dave Parker
 

Thanks Eric, that is a fascinating book.  Just reading the first 10 pages gives a good feel for the dickering between the railroad representatives (the General Committee....) and the ICC.  Then, if you get into the hearing transcripts you can get an even better feel for those (sometimes testy) negotiations.

This is probably a semantic argument, but I view the General Committee... as a lobbying group that was charged with getting the best deal possible from the ICC.  This involved both the details of the required appliances, and the phasing in of those requirements for existing cars in service (thus the several extensions of the deadline).  But it was the ICC that had the final say, and that promulgated the actual requirements, as per this snippet from the 2010 Federal Register:



This is an important shift in the regulation of the railroads, which had been self-governed to such a large degree prior.  Of course the USRA years were still to come, and then the 1920 Transportation Act (Esch-Cummins) which further inserted the ICC into the regulation of railroad business practices.  In the late 1920s, the tank car construction standards that had largely been the purview of the MCB/ARA became "co-regulated" by ICC standards.

A very interesting two-decade period in railroad history!
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

Eric Hansmann
 

That’s a great string of classic freight cars. A well-worn B&LE gondola is at the far right. The Rock Island furniture boxcar is easy to identify. It is one of 213 cars in the 60500-60749 series. The 1917 ORER has these designated as XA. Under the Class column they are Furniture-Auto, but a note indicates only cars with double end-doors are for automobile loading.

 

An SP boxcar is next followed by an older NC&StL truss rod car. The next car has a Pennsy heritage look, but the markings are not readable. It’s difficult to see if there is a ladder grab on the car end. A roof grab looks like it might be above a ladder that is closer to the center of the car end. The hand brake wheel looks like it is right of the coupler, too.

 

An MP truss rod car follows with a composite gon at the far left just behind a locomotive. Cool stuff!

 


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 12:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

 

Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.174558.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

mel perry
 

interesting espee box next to it, appears
to be fitted with a grain door and riding
on t-sections
;-)

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 10:35 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.174558.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133908.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Photo editing software will bring out the detail.

The car appears to be I.R Co. 3_2 with full-length running boards and hand rails.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.174558.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: PRR Boxcar 515355 (1912)

John Barry
 

Dave,

The procedures for granting an exemption or extension back in the day would have been dictated by the ICC, most likely in their rules of practice.  Since 1946, those procedures have been governed by the Administrative Procedures Act.  In today's environment, the regulator often reaches out to industry for assistance setting out the standards that they will enforce by rule.  Looks like that principle of consent and comment of the governed operated in the setting of the standards 110 years ago.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, September 11, 2020, 01:24:07 AM EDT, Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...> wrote:


Well, Guy, I knew if I stuck my foot in it on this one, and the trap got sprung, it would probably be by you.  As always, I have learned something both interesting and important.

Just curious:  is there a convenient reference for the granting of these extensions?  I didn't see one in the archival versions of your explanation.

Also, can we safely assume that new-car construction was never exempt once we hit the 7/1/11 implementation data? 

Last, did the ARA provide any data to make their case to the ICC that each successive deadline could not be met?   I am wondering what fraction of the pre-1911 cars had been properly refitted by 1915, 1917, etc.  I don't think the photographic evidence from that period is nearly extensive enough to give us any clues as to the proportion of compliant vs noncompliant cars.

As always, thanks for the history lesson!

With best regards.
(PS, I hope Idaho is not as crazy as it is up and down the coastal states right now.  It's apocalyptic here)
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Safety Appliance details - was Photo: PRR Boxcar 515355 (1912)

Eric Hansmann
 

Dave Parker wrote:

The ICC (not the MCB) was charged with developing the details of the required appliances, it was put on a deadline (with a threat of penalty), and the fines to be charged the railroads (by the ICC) for noncompliance are spelled out at this time.

=================

 

Dave,

 

I was wrong about the MCB developing the details for the required appliances, but it was not the ICC either. A General Committee of Railroads on Safety Appliance Standards was formed in 1910 to develop details on standardized safety appliances and their locations in order to fulfill the amendment to the Safety Appliance Act. The committee was formed “At the instance of the Secretary of the ICC…” Their findings were published and available to review at this link. Page five details the formation of this committee and their duties.

https://books.google.com/books?id=0wkqAAAAYAAJ&ppis=_e&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

I mentioned the MCB as I had this book in mind; Drawings of the Standards and Recommended Practice of the Master Car Builders’ Association.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112070081655&view=1up&seq=5

 

Obviously, the Committee and the MCB worked closely to develop the safety appliance specifics.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


Re: L&N boom and tool car 42296

Bruce Smith
 

Dick,

Nice work!  What gets coupled to the “a” end?


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Sep 11, 2020, at 8:25 AM, Richard Scott <rlscott5709@...> wrote:

Here's a photo of my most recent pandemic project, an O-scale model of L&N boom and tool car 42296.  I built it from a vintage Train-Craft Products kit, with many modifications and some added details.  I painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with Champ decals.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott
<L&N 42296.JPG>


Re: L&N boom and tool car 42296

Paul Doggett
 

Dick 

You made a great job of that.

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 11 Sep 2020, at 14:35, Richard Scott <rlscott5709@...> wrote:


Here's a photo of my most recent pandemic project, an O-scale model of L&N boom and tool car 42296.  I built it from a vintage Train-Craft Products kit, with many modifications and some added details.  I painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with Champ decals.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott
<L&N 42296.JPG>


Re: L&N boom and tool car 42296

al_brown03
 

Nice!!

AL B.


Re: L&N boom and tool car 42296

O Fenton Wells
 

Great looking car 
Fenton 


On Sep 11, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Richard Scott <rlscott5709@...> wrote:


Here's a photo of my most recent pandemic project, an O-scale model of L&N boom and tool car 42296.  I built it from a vintage Train-Craft Products kit, with many modifications and some added details.  I painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with Champ decals.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott
<L&N 42296.JPG>


L&N boom and tool car 42296

Richard Scott
 

Here's a photo of my most recent pandemic project, an O-scale model of L&N boom and tool car 42296.  I built it from a vintage Train-Craft Products kit, with many modifications and some added details.  I painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with Champ decals.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott


Re: Photo: PRR Boxcar 515355 (1912)

Dave Parker
 

Well, Guy, I knew if I stuck my foot in it on this one, and the trap got sprung, it would probably be by you.  As always, I have learned something both interesting and important.

Just curious:  is there a convenient reference for the granting of these extensions?  I didn't see one in the archival versions of your explanation.

Also, can we safely assume that new-car construction was never exempt once we hit the 7/1/11 implementation data? 

Last, did the ARA provide any data to make their case to the ICC that each successive deadline could not be met?   I am wondering what fraction of the pre-1911 cars had been properly refitted by 1915, 1917, etc.  I don't think the photographic evidence from that period is nearly extensive enough to give us any clues as to the proportion of compliant vs noncompliant cars.

As always, thanks for the history lesson!

With best regards.
(PS, I hope Idaho is not as crazy as it is up and down the coastal states right now.  It's apocalyptic here)
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photo: PRR Boxcar 515355 (1912)

Guy Wilber
 

Dave Parker were:

“It would take some compelling photographic evidence to convince me that there were non-compliant cars in interchange in 1920 (or, perhaps, even in 1912).”

From the list archives (2014):

_,_
By order of the ICC issued March 13, 1911, carriers were granted a five year extension from July 1, 1911 to July 1, 1916.  Further extensions included:  On November 2, 1915 an extension to July 1, 1917; On April 12, 1917 an extension to March 1, 1918; on February 1, 1918 an extension to September 1, 1919; and on August 29, 1919 an extension to March 1, 1920.  On March 2, 1920, The ARA filed application for a further extension which was denied on August 7, 1920.  
 
The ICC stated that their denial to the ARA's request was due mainly to the "liberal" amount of time already granted within the extensions.  The commission also noted within its decision that the ARA had made their request a day past the existing deadline though this was not a major factor within their decision.   
 
Data supplied by the ARA shortly after the ICC's hearing showed that there were about 45,000 cars still in need of some work to fully comply with the provisions of the Safety Appliance Standards.  About 60% of that total included cars which would require minor repairs only in order to bring them into full compliance.  The largest portion of the remainder consisted of cars which did not meet the required ladder clearances (likely) requiring major repairs in order to fully comply or those scheduled for scrapping.  

Guy Wilber
Driggs, Idaho


Re: What Is This Flatcar Load?

Nelson Moyer
 

And that mini-kit was the inspiration for the gorgeous FM-11/11A kits offered by Jerry Hamsmith, due largely to the artistry of Ed Rethwisch. Having built ten of these kits I speak from experience.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Marty McGuirk
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 4:42 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What Is This Flatcar Load?

 

I’d received the ID of the load after I’d posted the photo on my blog. Obviously I forgot to update the post!

My car is a Sunshine Models kit that was one of the registration door prizes Martin used to provide at his Naperville meets.


Marty 



On Sep 10, 2020, at 5:36 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:



Bill,

 

The car is CB&Q 91243, an FM-11/11A class car. The reason that Marty's blog had the prototype photo was that he was building a model. 

 

 

A resin HO FM-11 model was recently available from Ed Rethwischm and Jerry Hamsmith .

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, Al

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Keene via groups.io <bill41@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 4:04 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What Is This Flatcar Load?

 

Thank you for the ID on the load.

 

What I would like to know is … where can I find a model of this flat car? Or any info at all?

 

Cheers,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 



On Sep 10, 2020, at 11:59 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

 

Folks,

 

I was pretty sure that these were not generators because of the additional equipment and the nature of the trailer. I asked over on the 1-87Military Modelers group and Jim Eager replied:

 

”Those are AN/MPQ-4 mortar fire finder radar units.  The TM for them is 11-5840-208-10. The power generator and other auxiliary equipment for them would have been on a separate trailer.”

 

To translate, these are small radar units used to locate the source of incoming enemy mortar fire and direct counter-battery fire to suppress them.  Neat!

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL



On Sep 10, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

 

What Is This Flatcar Load?

This is a photo from  Marty McGuirk's Central Vermont Railway blog:

Can anyone identify the load? Perhaps military generators as suggested by Marty?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 

 


Re: What Is This Flatcar Load?

Rob & Bev Manley
 

With regards to the CB&Q Flatcar. I built the Sunshine Mini-kit and Chad's NP flatcar. Both are great kits. My method of weighting was to measure the cells on the bottoms of both cars, Rule up a grid of the sizes using a T-Square and Triangle. I then took some sheet lead I got from my house's re-roofing and replacement from the old flashing. I rolled the lead sheet flat and taped it over the template. Scoring the lead, I was able to harvest perfectly sized drop in panels. I can now place the  empty cars behind the locomotive in a sixty car train.

The "CB&Q" decal lettering on the Sunshine car is too high for the model and prototype photos. 
 
Rob Manley
"Better modeling through personal embarrassment"


On Thursday, September 10, 2020, 05:22:43 PM CDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Bill,

Have you considered Chad Boaz's kits? He has some neat stuff nobody else has done. They are pretty basic bodies and underframes, to which you add the details. I have a couple waiting to build and I think they are pretty nice.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 5:39 PM Bill Keene via groups.io <bill41=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bruce,

Thank You. I need a few flat cars and this one looks like a good candidate.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 10, 2020, at 2:36 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Bill,

The car is CB&Q 91243, an FM-11/11A class car. The reason that Marty's blog had the prototype photo was that he was building a model. 


A resin HO FM-11 model was recently available from Ed Rethwischm and Jerry Hamsmith .

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Keene via groups.io <bill41@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 4:04 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What Is This Flatcar Load?
 
Thank you for the ID on the load.

What I would like to know is … where can I find a model of this flat car? Or any info at all?

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 10, 2020, at 11:59 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Folks,

I was pretty sure that these were not generators because of the additional equipment and the nature of the trailer. I asked over on the 1-87Military Modelers group and Jim Eager replied:

”Those are AN/MPQ-4 mortar fire finder radar units.  The TM for them is 11-5840-208-10. The power generator and other auxiliary equipment for them would have been on a separate trailer.”

To translate, these are small radar units used to locate the source of incoming enemy mortar fire and direct counter-battery fire to suppress them.  Neat!

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Sep 10, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

What Is This Flatcar Load?
This is a photo from  Marty McGuirk's Central Vermont Railway blog:
Can anyone identify the load? Perhaps military generators as suggested by Marty?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA



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