Date   

Re: Using Pledge

lsittler
 

Thanks for all the comments and information. This group is very helpful and I really appreciate it. Les

Sent from my Verizon Motorola Smartphone

On Sep 23, 2020 10:16 AM, Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:

Bruce,

Thanks. I will give that process a try; Future on both sides of the decal lettering.

Mont

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 8:38 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Using Pledge

Mont,

Yes, the military modelers, from whom I learned about Future, overcoat decals with a coat of Future to help them disappear. I think that the idea is to have a similar finish on the entire model, prior to applying a flat finish. I can’t say I’ve noticed a huge difference, but on cars where I am not going to be weathering much, or at all, like my in-progress GN plywood cars, or some passenger cars, I think it does improve the final product.

Regards,

Bruce



On Sep 23, 2020, at 6:54 AM, Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:

Bruce,

I’ve not OVERCOATED decals with Future. I assume it helps the decals lay down better and that is why you do it?

I use Testor’s dullcoat to eliminate the Future shine. Sometimes a second coat is required.

Mont

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

(765) 836-2914


Re: Question about weathering

Bruce Smith
 

Ray, Jim,

Additional commentary interspersed ;)


On Sep 23, 2020, at 9:21 AM, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

  2) Darker colors on the roof and lighter colors on the bottom.

As a rule of thumb, everything goes towards a mid-tone. Brianna, my daughter, and I gave a clinic at an SER NMRA annual convention when she was the tender age of 5. She had many things to contribute, but perhaps the most seminal was “If it is light, make it darker, and if it is dark, make it lighter”.  BTW, the old theater adage “don’t work with children and animals” is entirely true. Brianna stole the show. 

And no pressure, but if a 5-year old can weather cars, so can you ;)

  3) Cars sit more than they move - a lot more.  So any "streaks"
       need to be vertical rather than horizontal.

Except passenger cars and head end cars, which may have a more all-over weathering pattern, with some horizontal aspects. Locomotives also have patterns that both relate to gravity and movement.

  5) A final light dusting with an air brush helps a lot - I call this the
      "blending coat" - I usually use a very thin "weathered black" color
      for this but have also used just dullcoat and other such.

Vary this color to vary your weathering. Alternative are Harbor Mist Grey, Railroad tie brown, 

  6) Weathered equipment is never "shiny".

In real life, some equipment can retain a shine, whilst being weathered. However, I have never found that gloss looks anything but “toy-like” on a model, even if the prototype was shiny.

 10) Rust is a job best done sparingly.

And remember that there are infinite shades of rust.

P.S. There are many different 'methods' - I prefer acrylic washes.
        Some guys prefer pan pastels.  Some guys like to do it all
        using an air brush (I consider this to be the least successful).
        In the end you will develop your own 'process'.  Don't forget
        to vary what you do from car to car - such as the shade of
        this coat, how much of a particular coat you use, what order
        you do different steps, etc.

I try to use different methods to mix things up to avoid the everything looks the same problem, but also to build skills with different media. 

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




Re: GN 50 footer

Eric Hansmann
 

Sweet work, Clark.

 

Does anyone know if the GN painted roof and ends black when these cars were built?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020 5:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] GN 50 footer

 

I built a ton of cars the first five months of the year. This is the only car I’ve worked on since. A normal pace  ;  ))

Since then I’ve picked up a couple kits off eBay and traded with friends for a couple others. So, I now have a slight cushion to boredom when cold weather hits. This Westerfield kit came as wood door and a half Auto car. The instructions shows a version with a 6’ steel door I decided to buy a 6’ steel door and the correct decals to change the car for Westerfield to make the conversion. The body was painted with Tru-color paints, I used Scalecoat on the underframe and trucks. Weathering Prismacolor pencils and Pan Pastels.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Question about weathering

Jim Betz
 

Ray,

  Take a box car you don't really care about and weather it.  Build up the
weathering slowly - taking a day or two between to just look at it several
times a day to see "when it is enough"..  Work from a photo - try to copy
some prototype example ... or the work of someone else that you like.
Do one side of it - then do the other side differently (more practice, less
sacrificial lambs).

  I use acrylic -washes- applied with a brush ... here are some 'basics'.

  1) The roof is almost always more weathered than the sides.
  2) Darker colors on the roof and lighter colors on the bottom.
  3) Cars sit more than they move - a lot more.  So any "streaks"
       need to be vertical rather than horizontal.
  4) Use gravity to let your washes actually move down the car sides.
  5) A final light dusting with an air brush helps a lot - I call this the
      "blending coat" - I usually use a very thin "weathered black" color
      for this but have also used just dullcoat and other such.
  6) Weathered equipment is never "shiny".
  7) Weathering on the prototype is a "process" - with variations depending
       upon where the car has been, how long it's been since it was painted,
       what kind of service it is in (cement hoppers are entirely different than
       ore jennies), etc.  
  8) Be careful not to over do 'special effects' such as bird droppings, rust
      "lines" along the rivets, etc.
  9) I use a combination of "detail painting by hand (grabs and drop steps
      and other metal parts)" and "general effects (washes - usually done
      after the detail items but not always).
10) Rust is a job best done sparingly.

  If you study a photo of a steam era freight yard the first thing you
notice is that "all the cars seem to be the same".  Closer examination
shows subtle differences from this car to the one next to it.  That's
the look I strive for ... said another way "don't fall in love with just
one process/set of steps - variety is the spice of weathering".

  Your first attempts are likely to be 'failures' (that's why we used an
old car we don't care about).  Most of the time it will be due to too
much rather than too little.  Even your worst weathering job will be
better than no weathering at all.  *G*
  Keep your test car around and run it on the layout every once in a
while - to remind you of "where you aren't going".  *W*  And how 
far you've come since you started down this journey.

  Weathering is like the student mathematician who went to see his
girl friend.  First he went half way there, then he went half way more,
then he went half way more again, etc.  He never really got to where
his girl was ... but he got close enough for all practical purposes.
                                                                                                       - Jim

P.S. There are many different 'methods' - I prefer acrylic washes.
        Some guys prefer pan pastels.  Some guys like to do it all
        using an air brush (I consider this to be the least successful).
        In the end you will develop your own 'process'.  Don't forget
        to vary what you do from car to car - such as the shade of
        this coat, how much of a particular coat you use, what order
        you do different steps, etc.


Re: Using Pledge

Mont Switzer
 

Bruce,

 

Thanks.  I will give that process a try; Future on both sides of the decal lettering.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 8:38 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Using Pledge

 

Mont,

 

Yes, the military modelers, from whom I learned about Future, overcoat decals with a coat of Future to help them disappear. I think that the idea is to have a similar finish on the entire model, prior to applying a flat finish. I can’t say I’ve noticed a huge difference, but on cars where I am not going to be weathering much, or at all, like my in-progress GN plywood cars, or some passenger cars, I think it does improve the final product.

 

Regards,

Bruce



On Sep 23, 2020, at 6:54 AM, Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:

 

Bruce,

 

I’ve not OVERCOATED decals with Future.  I assume it helps the decals lay down better and that is why you do it? 

 

I use Testor’s dullcoat to eliminate the Future shine.  Sometimes a second coat is required.

 

Mont  

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

(765) 836-2914

 


Re: Using Pledge

Mont Switzer
 

Doug,

 

I store my Future in small Floquil size bottles.  It can over time get a little “stiff,” at lease in the small bottles.  Distilled water takes care of that.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 8:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Using Pledge

 

The Pledge/Future floor finish product is 100% clear acrylic. No need to thin for airbrushing. It can also be brushed on, good for small areas. Clean up with water. It provides a gloss finish perfect for decals. I have created a flat finish by mixing Tamiya Flat Base with, at a 10 to 1 ratio.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of lsittler
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 5:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Using Pledge

 

Good morning- I have been using Pledge to affix rivet decals to plastic and resin, based on the advice from Bill Welch and others in this group. It has worked very well. In those cases, I was brushing Pledge in the areas where the rivets were to be placed. But I have read that others use Pledge as a finish coat before applying decals. I am assuming that in those cases, Pledge was applied over  acrylic paint such as Polyscale, due to the flat finish of those paints, correct? Do you spray it on? If so, do you thin it? And what's the thinner? Or do you brush it in the areas where the decals go? Also, I'm thinking that with a paint like Scalecoat 2, this would be unnecessary since that paint has a gloss finish already  and  decals can be applied right on top. Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks. Les


Re: Question about weathering

Pierre Oliver
 

Ray
The best thing to do is get your hands a a stack of cheap freight cars and practice 
Figure out processes and materials that give you the results you want
There’s a large array of products out there to discover

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


On Sep 23, 2020, at 8:53 AM, Ray Hutchison <rayhutchison2@...> wrote:

Decided to post this after reading comments about pledge...

I am supremely unconfident about weathering cars and engines.  Is there a way to apply overcoat to original finish that might allow for removal of later weathering if one decides that the weathering did not turn out as expected?  A finish where acrylic colors might later be removed, for example?

(I have noted that there is a GN 4-8-4 with very heavy weathering that has sat at ebay for many months, I think the reason being that the finish is not something that anyone else would want sitting on their layout.)

rh


Re: Using Pledge

Eric Hansmann
 

Here’s a 2016 blog post about working with Pledge Future acrylic floor wax.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/working-with-future/

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of lsittler
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 5:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Using Pledge

 

Good morning- I have been using Pledge to affix rivet decals to plastic and resin, based on the advice from Bill Welch and others in this group. It has worked very well. In those cases, I was brushing Pledge in the areas where the rivets were to be placed. But I have read that others use Pledge as a finish coat before applying decals. I am assuming that in those cases, Pledge was applied over  acrylic paint such as Polyscale, due to the flat finish of those paints, correct? Do you spray it on? If so, do you thin it? And what's the thinner? Or do you brush it in the areas where the decals go? Also, I'm thinking that with a paint like Scalecoat 2, this would be unnecessary since that paint has a gloss finish already  and  decals can be applied right on top. Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks. Les


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] GN 50 footer

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Nice build, Clark!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020 6:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] GN 50 footer

 

I built a ton of cars the first five months of the year. This is the only car I’ve worked on since. A normal pace  ;  ))

Since then I’ve picked up a couple kits off eBay and traded with friends for a couple others. So, I now have a slight cushion to boredom when cold weather hits. This Westerfield kit came as wood door and a half Auto car. The instructions shows a version with a 6’ steel door I decided to buy a 6’ steel door and the correct decals to change the car for Westerfield to make the conversion. The body was painted with Tru-color paints, I used Scalecoat on the underframe and trucks. Weathering Prismacolor pencils and Pan Pastels.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Question about weathering

Brian Shumaker
 

If you use a solvent based color coat and/or clear coat, water based weathering can be wiped off with isopropyl alcohol before it dries completely. Chalk can be washed off with water. It's best to just practice on throw away cars to get your 'feel'.
Brian


Re: GN 50 footer

James Brewer
 

Clark,

Great looking car; I love the subtle weathering!

Jim Brewer


Question about weathering

Ray Hutchison
 

Decided to post this after reading comments about pledge...

I am supremely unconfident about weathering cars and engines.  Is there a way to apply overcoat to original finish that might allow for removal of later weathering if one decides that the weathering did not turn out as expected?  A finish where acrylic colors might later be removed, for example?

(I have noted that there is a GN 4-8-4 with very heavy weathering that has sat at ebay for many months, I think the reason being that the finish is not something that anyone else would want sitting on their layout.)

rh


Re: Using Pledge

Bruce Smith
 

Mont,

Yes, the military modelers, from whom I learned about Future, overcoat decals with a coat of Future to help them disappear. I think that the idea is to have a similar finish on the entire model, prior to applying a flat finish. I can’t say I’ve noticed a huge difference, but on cars where I am not going to be weathering much, or at all, like my in-progress GN plywood cars, or some passenger cars, I think it does improve the final product.

Regards,
Bruce

On Sep 23, 2020, at 6:54 AM, Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:

Bruce,
 
I’ve not OVERCOATED decals with Future.  I assume it helps the decals lay down better and that is why you do it? 
 
I use Testor’s dullcoat to eliminate the Future shine.  Sometimes a second coat is required.
 
Mont  
 
Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
(765) 836-2914


Re: Using Pledge

Douglas Harding
 

The Pledge/Future floor finish product is 100% clear acrylic. No need to thin for airbrushing. It can also be brushed on, good for small areas. Clean up with water. It provides a gloss finish perfect for decals. I have created a flat finish by mixing Tamiya Flat Base with, at a 10 to 1 ratio.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of lsittler
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 5:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Using Pledge

 

Good morning- I have been using Pledge to affix rivet decals to plastic and resin, based on the advice from Bill Welch and others in this group. It has worked very well. In those cases, I was brushing Pledge in the areas where the rivets were to be placed. But I have read that others use Pledge as a finish coat before applying decals. I am assuming that in those cases, Pledge was applied over  acrylic paint such as Polyscale, due to the flat finish of those paints, correct? Do you spray it on? If so, do you thin it? And what's the thinner? Or do you brush it in the areas where the decals go? Also, I'm thinking that with a paint like Scalecoat 2, this would be unnecessary since that paint has a gloss finish already  and  decals can be applied right on top. Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks. Les


Re: Using Pledge

Mont Switzer
 

Bruce,

 

I’ve not OVERCOATED decals with Future.  I assume it helps the decals lay down better and that is why you do it? 

 

I use Testor’s dullcoat to eliminate the Future shine.  Sometimes a second coat is required.

 

Mont  

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 7:49 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Using Pledge

 

Les,

 

Airbrush, no thinner, better in a couple thin coats. It can go on over any paint, acrylic or not. Just make sure that the non-acrylic paint is completely dry (48 hours).

 

If a paint works well for you for decaling already, no need for Future.

 

I typically do the whole car side, although I concentrate on the areas where decals will go to make sure that they are covered. I often, but not always, do a coat OVER the decals after they are on. 

 

If you just have a small decal to do, such as a chalk mark, then use a brush, just in that area. 

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of lsittler <lsittler@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 5:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Using Pledge

 

Good morning- I have been using Pledge to affix rivet decals to plastic and resin, based on the advice from Bill Welch and others in this group. It has worked very well. In those cases, I was brushing Pledge in the areas where the rivets were to be placed. But I have read that others use Pledge as a finish coat before applying decals. I am assuming that in those cases, Pledge was applied over  acrylic paint such as Polyscale, due to the flat finish of those paints, correct? Do you spray it on? If so, do you thin it? And what's the thinner? Or do you brush it in the areas where the decals go? Also, I'm thinking that with a paint like Scalecoat 2, this would be unnecessary since that paint has a gloss finish already  and  decals can be applied right on top. Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks. Les


Re: Using Pledge

Bruce Smith
 

Les,

Airbrush, no thinner, better in a couple thin coats. It can go on over any paint, acrylic or not. Just make sure that the non-acrylic paint is completely dry (48 hours).

If a paint works well for you for decaling already, no need for Future.

I typically do the whole car side, although I concentrate on the areas where decals will go to make sure that they are covered. I often, but not always, do a coat OVER the decals after they are on. 

If you just have a small decal to do, such as a chalk mark, then use a brush, just in that area. 

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of lsittler <lsittler@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 5:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Using Pledge
 
Good morning- I have been using Pledge to affix rivet decals to plastic and resin, based on the advice from Bill Welch and others in this group. It has worked very well. In those cases, I was brushing Pledge in the areas where the rivets were to be placed. But I have read that others use Pledge as a finish coat before applying decals. I am assuming that in those cases, Pledge was applied over  acrylic paint such as Polyscale, due to the flat finish of those paints, correct? Do you spray it on? If so, do you thin it? And what's the thinner? Or do you brush it in the areas where the decals go? Also, I'm thinking that with a paint like Scalecoat 2, this would be unnecessary since that paint has a gloss finish already  and  decals can be applied right on top. Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks. Les


Re: Using Pledge

Mont Switzer
 

Les,

 

I think the Pledge you are referring to is the old Future Floor Wax.  If that is the case I can relate my experience with it.

 

1.       When using flat or semi-gloss paints I apply the Pledge before decals.  This product seems to suck the decals down when a[applied afterwards. 

2.       I spray Pledge through my air brush and apply it with a paint brush depending on the size of area I am working with.

3.       Over time the Pledge gets a little thick in the bottle, but it is easily thinned.  I used distilled water.

4.       I do not feel there is a need to use Pledge over Scalecoat and Scalecoat II glossy finish paints.  They take decals well.

5.       Pledge dries fast and is decal ready in about 15 minutes.

6.       I believe it has some self-leveling characteristics.

 

I have not tried using Pledge OVER rivet decals, but it seems like a pretty good idea to try.  I do try to avoid applying any sort of decal on unpainted (uncoated) styrene.  The rivet and weld seam decals seem to adhere better to paint or Pledge.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of lsittler
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 6:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Using Pledge

 

Good morning- I have been using Pledge to affix rivet decals to plastic and resin, based on the advice from Bill Welch and others in this group. It has worked very well. In those cases, I was brushing Pledge in the areas where the rivets were to be placed. But I have read that others use Pledge as a finish coat before applying decals. I am assuming that in those cases, Pledge was applied over  acrylic paint such as Polyscale, due to the flat finish of those paints, correct? Do you spray it on? If so, do you thin it? And what's the thinner? Or do you brush it in the areas where the decals go? Also, I'm thinking that with a paint like Scalecoat 2, this would be unnecessary since that paint has a gloss finish already  and  decals can be applied right on top. Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks. Les


Re: Using Pledge (Future)

Benjamin Hom
 

Les Sittler asked:
"Any advice would be most appreciated."




Using Pledge

lsittler
 

Good morning- I have been using Pledge to affix rivet decals to plastic and resin, based on the advice from Bill Welch and others in this group. It has worked very well. In those cases, I was brushing Pledge in the areas where the rivets were to be placed. But I have read that others use Pledge as a finish coat before applying decals. I am assuming that in those cases, Pledge was applied over  acrylic paint such as Polyscale, due to the flat finish of those paints, correct? Do you spray it on? If so, do you thin it? And what's the thinner? Or do you brush it in the areas where the decals go? Also, I'm thinking that with a paint like Scalecoat 2, this would be unnecessary since that paint has a gloss finish already  and  decals can be applied right on top. Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks. Les


Re: GN 50 footer

Paul Doggett
 

Clark 

Another great looking car very nicely modelled.

Paul 


On 22 Sep 2020, at 23:20, Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:


I built a ton of cars the first five months of the year. This is the only car I’ve worked on since. A normal pace  ;  ))
Since then I’ve picked up a couple kits off eBay and traded with friends for a couple others. So, I now have a slight cushion to boredom when cold weather hits. This Westerfield kit came as wood door and a half Auto car. The instructions shows a version with a 6’ steel door I decided to buy a 6’ steel door and the correct decals to change the car for Westerfield to make the conversion. The body was painted with Tru-color paints, I used Scalecoat on the underframe and trucks. Weathering Prismacolor pencils and Pan Pastels.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

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