Date   

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Tony Thompson
 

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Re: F&C B&M XM1

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Jack and Ben,

Well, I can't say for sure, but it is possible that one of the Salzberg shortlines had a shop that did repair work for the other related lines. Other possibilities are a seasonal traffic surge on one line that required extra cars, or maybe some of the cars were transferred from one line to another and were waiting for relettering. This might require some serious work with an ORER, and probably isn't worth the effort.

One other interesting point. This photo is on the Fallen Flags web site, where it is attributed to Jim Sands at Marshaltown, Iowa in 1966. In my 1959 ORER this series of cars only ran from 10000 to 10074. This suggests that car 10094 might not have been on the FDDM&S roster during our period of interest, though others of this class certainly were.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 11:22 AM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Well, Garth, what IS intriguing is that these two cars happen to be coupled together.  The odds are long . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 5:26 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] F&C B&M XM1

 

Jack,

 

Really nothing intriguing here. The WAG and the FDDM&S were both H.E. Salzburg shortlines (IIRC, WAG in 1954 and FDDM&S in 1956). Both railroads used former B&M XM-1 boxcars, and the Salzburg management reassigned equipment among their various lines as needed.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 3:19 AM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:00 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Here's a Jim Sands photo of a car that went to the FDDM&S with a Youngstown door:

The intriguing thing about this photo is that the car to the left is also an ex-B&M XM-1, one that went to the WAG in the mid-'50s. 

Jack Mullen


Photo: GATX 31197 & 54877 At DuPont Plant (1940)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: GATX 31197 & 54877 At DuPont Plant (1940)

A photo from the Hagley Digital Archives:

https://digital.hagley.org/1972341_0564?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=4548b74fa792245fab1b&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=1&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=23

Scroll on the postcard to enlarge it.

Caption:

Tank cars are loaded with hydrogen peroxide at the DuPont Company's plant near Memphis TN. Structure in left background is hydrogen peroxide manufacturing unit which uses a new non electrolytic process developed by DuPont research. One of plant's 250,000 pound aluminum peroxide storage tanks is at left and drum filling station and warehouse at right. Southern textile and paper mills use large quantities of hydrogen peroxide for bleaching.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Eaboard Ventilated Boxcar 16204 (1918)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Eaboard Ventilated Boxcar 16204 (1918)

Yes, Eaboard.

A photo from the Hagley Digital Archives:

https://digital.hagley.org/2017239_04_207?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=757ef1a8e4df72d37a0b&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=1&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=20

Scroll on the postcard to enlarge it.

Looks like some boards were replaced and the car returned to service before heading to the paint shop. Possibly a non-home road repair.

Another view:

https://digital.hagley.org/2017239_04_210?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=a62a318a0d7106e10d34&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=2&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=8

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Heinz "Coffin Tank" Pickle Cars

Bill J.
 

Doug, that's the final word for me, thank you.

Bill Jolitz


Re: F&C B&M XM1

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, Garth, what IS intriguing is that these two cars happen to be coupled together.  The odds are long . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 5:26 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] F&C B&M XM1

 

Jack,

 

Really nothing intriguing here. The WAG and the FDDM&S were both H.E. Salzburg shortlines (IIRC, WAG in 1954 and FDDM&S in 1956). Both railroads used former B&M XM-1 boxcars, and the Salzburg management reassigned equipment among their various lines as needed.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 3:19 AM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:00 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Here's a Jim Sands photo of a car that went to the FDDM&S with a Youngstown door:

The intriguing thing about this photo is that the car to the left is also an ex-B&M XM-1, one that went to the WAG in the mid-'50s. 

Jack Mullen


Re: F&C B&M XM1

Rich Gibson
 

The original B&M cars were built with two different roof styles as well as two different door styles. 

Rich Gibson
Golden, CO


Re: F&C B&M XM1

akerboomk
 

RE: Why the different roof?

The FtDDM&S car is an ex B&M 72000 series car (4 door supports/guides).

I am suspecting the WAG is an ex-71000 series (I can’t see the door area to confirm)

They has different roofs “as built”.

See here for more details

            https://www.bmrrhs.org/box_71000_series/

 

Ken


--
Ken Akerboom


Resin Car Works kit update

Eric Hansmann
 

A recent kit has been brought back for a limited time, plus lots of extras for the new NYC gondola kit. Our latest blog post has the info.



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: F&C B&M XM1

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Pardon my mistake. It should be H.E. Salzberg, not with a "u". 

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 5:27 AM Garth Groff and Sally Sanford via groups.io <mallardlodge1000=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Jack,

Really nothing intriguing here. The WAG and the FDDM&S were both H.E. Salzburg shortlines (IIRC, WAG in 1954 and FDDM&S in 1956). Both railroads used former B&M XM-1 boxcars, and the Salzburg management reassigned equipment among their various lines as needed.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 3:19 AM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:00 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Here's a Jim Sands photo of a car that went to the FDDM&S with a Youngstown door:
The intriguing thing about this photo is that the car to the left is also an ex-B&M XM-1, one that went to the WAG in the mid-'50s. 

Jack Mullen


Re: F&C B&M XM1

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Jack,

Really nothing intriguing here. The WAG and the FDDM&S were both H.E. Salzburg shortlines (IIRC, WAG in 1954 and FDDM&S in 1956). Both railroads used former B&M XM-1 boxcars, and the Salzburg management reassigned equipment among their various lines as needed.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 3:19 AM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:00 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Here's a Jim Sands photo of a car that went to the FDDM&S with a Youngstown door:
The intriguing thing about this photo is that the car to the left is also an ex-B&M XM-1, one that went to the WAG in the mid-'50s. 

Jack Mullen


Re: F&C B&M XM1

rdgbuff56
 


It appears the WAG car has a different roof. Why would that be?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, September 26, 2020, 03:19:54 AM EDT, Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:


On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:00 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Here's a Jim Sands photo of a car that went to the FDDM&S with a Youngstown door:
The intriguing thing about this photo is that the car to the left is also an ex-B&M XM-1, one that went to the WAG in the mid-'50s. 

Jack Mullen


Re: F&C B&M XM1

Jack Mullen
 

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:00 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Here's a Jim Sands photo of a car that went to the FDDM&S with a Youngstown door:
The intriguing thing about this photo is that the car to the left is also an ex-B&M XM-1, one that went to the WAG in the mid-'50s. 

Jack Mullen


Re: ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

Jake Schaible
 

Thanks Steve.  Not sure why the link didn't take, but you are correct... add back the F at the end. 

Also, please ignore my erroneous mention of Ft-Ia being also Ft-18. F-18 seems to have been the Folio 211 page number. Pardon my mistake.


Re: ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

Steve and Barb Hile
 

You will need to add the f to the bottom link.  This cross section from the rebuilt drawing at least shows the proportional spacing of the underframe girders.

 

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 2:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

 

Ironically, I'm working on the AT&SF FT-J as we speak too... but in N scale. 

You may find this helpful, PJ Student's article re the FT-J (and the Ft-O&P) in HO.  http://magazine.trainlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ptm_197804.pdf starting on pg 16.
On pg 17, he states the side sill web plates (what Student call the fishbelly) are "inset 16" from the edge of the deck side sill."  No word on spacing of other bellies.  

Incidentally, would love to see other drawing or images of the FT-J.  (So far KSHS has not replied to my request to see their's listed on line here https://www.kshs.org/archives/67594.)

All I have to work with is the grainy Cyril Durrenberger image of the Wt-J in this Student article, but it seems to materially differ from the Student version beyond what he mentions, in that it seems to have 5 subfloor braces that pierce the side sill web plates and extend to flush with the deck side sills - perhaps 3 center as I beam-ish (center and other 2 at the point of the fish belly bend) and the two towards the ends being c or box channels? 

Also, interested in the width of the exposed side sill web plates, not given in the Student article, except as the width of the fishbelly, based on the dimensions of the Train-Miniature donor car, plus scabs he used to join the deck.  

Other that this drawing online of an Ft-Ia (apparently same as Ft-18?)  I can't help much here I've not researched it - but very interested as that is also on my to do list!  http://old.atsfrr.org/resources/zebrowski/folio/ft-pdf/ft-i.pdf

-Jake Schaible

 


Re: Heinz "Coffin Tank" Pickle Cars

Douglas Harding
 

Dave Lieder’s book is good, but focuses on the Midwest Pickle and Vinegar production. It does not contain much on production in California.

 

A map in this 1910 publication  https://archive.org/details/hjheinzcompanypr00hjhe/page/n5/mode/2up shows Heinz had Distributing Warehouses in San Francisco and Los Angeles and Distributing Agencies in Sacramento and San Diego. But all their salting stations and factories were in the upper Midwest and the East. The Coffin cars were used for moving cucumbers from salting stations to factories. You may not see a Heinz coffin car in California. But a lot of cucumbers, including cukes for pickling are raised in California, including the San Joaquin area. That means cukes had to move from salting stations to factories, most likely in vats on flatcars. The coffin cars was one design, used by companies besides Heinz. The covered tanks on a flatcar, ie the Athearn car, was another, used by many companies. Find out who was making pickles in that area, and you may determine what car would be appropriate. Because Athearn make a pickle car, it is most likely Irv saw one from his building and duplicated it, like he did with so many of his cars.

 

One company operating in LA in 1891 was The Western Manufacturing and Pickle Factory.

 

Vinegar is another side of the pickle story. I have a copy of a photo of Heinz vinegar car HJHX 200 taken in 1940 in Roseville CA. So Heinz was moving cars in California close to your specified time.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill J. via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 4:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Heinz "Coffin Tank" Pickle Cars

 

I found a #83 for sale from Overland in brass.  Wondering if I "need" one for the summer of 1943 in the southern San Joaquin Valley.  I fear they are more of a Midwest than far West car.

Thanks, Eric,

Bill Jolitz


Re: ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

charles slater
 

Richard I have photos of the Ft-I underframe, I tried sending them to you but the goups.io won't allow that
Send me an email to  atsfcondr42@...  and I will be glad to send you the pictures
Charles Slater

Sent from Outlook



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 8:44 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section
 
I'm looking for a cross-section of ATSF FT-I and FT-J flat cars to see how the 4 fish-belly sills were spaced.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


Re: Heinz "Coffin Tank" Pickle Cars

Bill J.
 

I found a #83 for sale from Overland in brass.  Wondering if I "need" one for the summer of 1943 in the southern San Joaquin Valley.  I fear they are more of a Midwest than far West car.

Thanks, Eric,

Bill Jolitz


Re: F&C B&M XM1

George Courtney
 

Good move, Clark,  If it is ever stolen, the police can id it now.


Re: Question about weathering

Tony Thompson
 

Nelson Moyer wrote:

I didn’t include Rule G in my private rulebook, but it’s there in my Employee Rulebook. I’m sure Rule G didn’t apply in business cars . . .

    I am told that this varied quite widely from railroad to railroad, and from CEO to CEO. There were certainly teetotalers and a few on the edge of being lushes, and doubtless everything in between. 

Tony Thompson



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