Date   

Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

nyc3001 .
 

Thanks guys. It appears that the GATX fleet was much more varied than I initially thought. Reexamination of the various solid blocks of GATX tank cars in many consists is probably in order.

-Phil


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Bruce Smith
 

Phil,

On a practical level, the cars modeled by Tangent are a 1917 design so they are technologically outdated by WWII, and that is also reflected in the radial course design. The later GATC (and folks, it is General (formerly German) American Tank car Corporation) that BUILT the cars, some of which ran under GATX reporting marks) longitudinal course cars (aka type 30 and others) are modernized cars that replaced or supplemented the type 17 cars beginning in 1930.

I too have yet to see a fleet breakdown of the GATX fleet. “somebody” needs to write a book! ;)

Now, if you’re talking about the entire tank car fleet, every addition helps with variety and the GATC type 17 is no exception. The two BIG holes in a steam era tank car fleet are a plastic GATC type 30 and plastic UTL X-3. Both have been done in resin, but neither are readily available or easy to assemble. With resin offerings from SCF, Resin Freight Cars, Speedwitch, etc… mixed into the fleet, you can have a nicely varied group of cars to break up the AC&F type 21s (P2K/Walthers) and type 27s (Intermountain). Just don’t show up with any (or maybe more than one) Tichy (lovely car that it is) or Red Caboose tank car. 

Regards,
Bruce

On Oct 1, 2020, at 2:20 PM, nyc3001 . <nyc3001@...> wrote:

Bruce,

I was unaware that this was a minority car. It just appeared to me that because of the varied types of STC cars from SC&F and GATC cars from Tangent that a variegated fleet could be composed. For my modeling locale (Buffalo area), it just so happens that most of the tanks that Tangent has released are needed based on photographic evidence and freight consists, but I realize that the majority of modelers may not be modeling areas near electrochemical facilities. At any rate, I do not know much about the fleet breakdown of GATX cars, which is why I asked.

-Phil


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Brian Carlson
 

First is not GATX. It’s CGTX. The poster was asking about GATX. 

The Type 17’s would be in the tariff but I haven’t tried to figure out fleets. To me it’s a rabbit-hole that would never end and if you’ve seen my clinics you know I’m a data guy. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Oct 1, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:



Except the first, which is a 1955 and later scheme.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Carlson via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2020 2:58 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GATX fleet breakdown?

 

The GATX cars released all have k brakes. 

Brian J. Carlson 



On Oct 1, 2020, at 2:50 PM, nyc3001 . <nyc3001@...> wrote:

Now that Tangent has released the plain black GATX version of the Type 17, the possibility of building a credible fleet of many types of GA tank cars is becoming possible. Does anyone have a fleet breakdown of the various types of GA tanks in the early 1950s?

-Phil


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Dave Parker
 

Phil, that may be possible, but I haven't tried it either.  My comments pertained to RTRs and out-of-the-box kits.

Even with the Tangent 1917 design cars, I don't have a good sense of how many of them existed relative to things like the UTLX class X and X-3 designs.  There are some clues in the Railway Age annual tabulations of car orders, but even those require guesswork as to exactly what was built for each buyer.  We do know that the 1917 design did not last long, something on the order of 3-4 years before it was superseded by the longitudinal-course cars.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

nyc3001 .
 
Edited

Dave,

If I'm not mistaken, David Lehlbach has identified the possibility of modeling at least some of the 1920s longitudinal-course cars by mating an Intermountain tank with a Tangent Type 17 underframe. I have not tried this and should probably look at more photos to ascertain the details of the longitudinal-course cars.

-Phil


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Dave Parker
 

I'm with Bruce on this.  In addition to the (good luck!) Sunshine Type 30s, there are no models for the many 1920s cars with longitudinal course.  We see them in photos, we know they existed, but.....

I have never seen anything that would readily yield a systematic breakdown of the GATX fleet (I am assuming that what is meant by GA here).  There may be some clues in the various tariffs, but I think they will be on the ambiguous side.  Between 1930 and 1935, the GATX fleet almost doubled, and then increased by another ~50% by 1945.  They swallowed up  smaller, struggling leasing companies during the depression, and purchase-lease back arrangements occurred as well.  Thus, the ~38,000 cars owned by GA in 1945 were likely something of a dog's breakfast, not easily sorted out.

This is in stark contrast to the UTLX fleet which, as Steve Hile's book tells us, is quite well documented throughout the steam era.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

nyc3001 .
 

Bruce,

I was unaware that this was a minority car. It just appeared to me that because of the varied types of STC cars from SC&F and GATC cars from Tangent that a variegated fleet could be composed. For my modeling locale (Buffalo area), it just so happens that most of the tanks that Tangent has released are needed based on photographic evidence and freight consists, but I realize that the majority of modelers may not be modeling areas near electrochemical facilities. At any rate, I do not know much about the fleet breakdown of GATX cars, which is why I asked.

-Phil


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

Um, how does the advent of a single car type in the vastness of the General American fleet make it possible to build “a credible fleet of many types of GA tank cars”? I mean, it’s great that we now have the GATC Type 17, but even in the late1930s, it's a minority car. I guess if you got lucky enough to get some GATC Type 30 cars from Sunshine for the brief time they were available, that would help a lot, but for the rest of us, we got nothing…

  Well said, Mr. Smith.

Tony Thompson




Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Bruce Smith
 

Phil,

Um, how does the advent of a single car type in the vastness of the General American fleet make it possible to build “a credible fleet of many types of GA tank cars”? I mean, it’s great that we now have the GATC Type 17, but even in the late1930s, it's a minority car. I guess if you got lucky enough to get some GATC Type 30 cars from Sunshine for the brief time they were available, that would help a lot, but for the rest of us, we got nothing…

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn AL

On Oct 1, 2020, at 1:50 PM, nyc3001 . <nyc3001@...> wrote:

Now that Tangent has released the plain black GATX version of the Type 17, the possibility of building a credible fleet of many types of GA tank cars is becoming possible. Does anyone have a fleet breakdown of the various types of GA tanks in the early 1950s?

-Phil


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Except the first, which is a 1955 and later scheme.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Carlson via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2020 2:58 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GATX fleet breakdown?

 

The GATX cars released all have k brakes. 

Brian J. Carlson 



On Oct 1, 2020, at 2:50 PM, nyc3001 . <nyc3001@...> wrote:

Now that Tangent has released the plain black GATX version of the Type 17, the possibility of building a credible fleet of many types of GA tank cars is becoming possible. Does anyone have a fleet breakdown of the various types of GA tanks in the early 1950s?

-Phil


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Yes, I’d like to see this too, though extending back into the mid-40s would be of greater interest.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2020 2:51 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] GATX fleet breakdown?

 

Now that Tangent has released the plain black GATX version of the Type 17, the possibility of building a credible fleet of many types of GA tank cars is becoming possible. Does anyone have a fleet breakdown of the various types of GA tanks in the early 1950s?

-Phil


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Brian Carlson
 

The GATX cars released all have k brakes. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Oct 1, 2020, at 2:50 PM, nyc3001 . <nyc3001@...> wrote:

Now that Tangent has released the plain black GATX version of the Type 17, the possibility of building a credible fleet of many types of GA tank cars is becoming possible. Does anyone have a fleet breakdown of the various types of GA tanks in the early 1950s?

-Phil


Photo: Chicago, Milwaukee & Puget Sound Boxcar (Circa 1910)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Chicago, Milwaukee & Puget Sound Boxcar (Circa 1910)

A photo from the Detroit Public Library:

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A176589

Click and hold to enlarge photo.

Caption:

View of men loading motor vehicle frames onto 1910 Grabowsky truck owned by Regal Motor Car Company. "Regal Motor Car Co." painted on side of truck; Chicago, Milwaukee and Puget Sound railroad cars in background. Stamped on back: "Spooner & Wells, Inc., photographers, telephone North 1745. 1231 Woodward Ave., Detroit, Mich. Detroit, 1231 Woodward, New York, 1931 Broadway." Handwritten on back: "Motor trucks--Grabowsky, 1910."

Notice the placard: "Unload From This Door"

Note the Chicago, Milwaukee & Puget Sound Railway boxcar. This railway began operations in 1909 and stopped service in 1912. One source says the company had routes Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Washington while another extends the road into Chicago. This corporate entity was folded into its parent company, the Milwaukee Road, in 1912.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: GATX 15039/Mid-Co Tank Car (1919)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: GATX 15039/Mid-Co Tank Car (1919)

A photo from the Detroit Public Library:

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A214706

Click and hold to enlarge photo.

Caption:

View of the Maxwell Motor Company factory during construction. Mid-Co. tank car on railroad tracks in background. Printed on front: "May 7, 1919." Handwritten on back: "Factories--Maxwell."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


GATX fleet breakdown?

nyc3001 .
 
Edited

Now that Tangent has released the plain black GATX version of the Type 17, the possibility of building a credible fleet of many types of GA tank cars is near to realization. Does anyone have a fleet breakdown of the various types of GA tanks in the early 1950s?

-Phil


Wegman PFE parts

Andy Carlson
 

My reply to a request for Wegmann R-30-18(19; 21) reefer parts.

Fenton-
Before Terry died, I had enough parts for well over 100 reefers. I got requests for parts, and slowly roofs and frames and floors drifted out of the parts boxes. I always thought I would simply get replacement parts from Terry someday, but his passing eliminated that possibility. Then after Dick Harley bought the Wegmann tooling, I thought he could be a source for parts, but Dick specifically posted to the STMFC list that he wasn't going to be in a position to be offering any parts, and don't ask.

So there I am, with dozens of reefers without roofs, floors and frames. Sorry that can't be of any help to you.

regards,
-Andy

On Thursday, October 1, 2020, 8:47:16 AM PDT, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


Ted mentioned on the Saturday Hindsight call that you probably had Wegman parts.  If you have enough to do a PFE reefer let me know as I would be interested.  I don't know much about these so I may not understand what is availabel and what is required.
Fenton



Re: Photo: ATSF (?) Boxcar 9260 With Pinto Bean Load (1914)

Bob Chaparro
 

Several persons who saw this photo also believed it was a Santa Fe subsidiary car because they, like me, do not have as good a resolution on their monitors as you apparently have.

I Photoshopped the photo and zoomed in, but again, monitor limitations came into play.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: 4/4 IDE's and 8-rung ladders for 10'6" IH

O Fenton Wells
 

Andy, not sure I told you but the parts did arrive on Saturday. Thanks
Fenton

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 2:51 PM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
Hello-

Intermountain's new policy this year to refuse selling parts has just cemented my reasons for limiting my parts selling. I have a few remaining items which I am going to offer to folks of this list.

I have a few IMRC 4/4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends of the slightly narrower top rib and no poling pockets. Many of us would recognize this end as being for a 10'6" Inside height car. Debuting in 1944, this has a recess on the top rib for the power brake housing on the 'B' end.

I also have for 10'6" IH cars 8-rung ladders, also from Intermountain. These were tooled for their Canadian version of the 10'6" modified AAR box car. Each set has 4 of the 8-rung ladders, two with the corner sill steps integral with the ladders. Also included are 8 bracket grabs. The tooling used for the production of these ladders were still fresh and no flash is present.

The parts for the power brake details show no flash, which is good for Intermountain, as many times their Ajax brake wheels have flash partially and often fully filling in the holes in the hubs. This set of parts include 2 corner sill steps each of 45 degree bent style and square corner style. 4 route placards for doors, Ajax power housing with chain and rod, Ajax brake wheel, brake release rod and valve.

Prices are:

$4.50 for the 4/4 IDE per pair
$4.50 for the 8-rung ladders
$1.00 for the power brake detail set

Shipping is $4 flat rate for one or dozens.

I do not have a list of parts. Contact me off-list (Please) for info at <midcentury@...>

I accept checks and money orders. with a small fee PayPal is welcomed, and F-t-F PayPal is the same total as check.

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA









--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Old Photos from Southern Railway in Knoxville yard

Thomas Evans
 

Vera,

It looks like Patrick Cudahy is the Cudahy of the Wisconsin meet packing company, so you've answered my question.
Your photo clearly shows that they also had reefers.

Thanks - Tom


Re: Photo: ATSF (?) Boxcar 9260 With Pinto Bean Load (1914)

Ray Breyer
 

Um...you can zoom into the corner of the end, and can clearly read the CCC&StL.
Why would anyone think this is a Santa Fe car?

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Wednesday, September 30, 2020, 03:31:48 PM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


I agree. This is a Big Four boxcar. The lettering follows what the NYC was applying to their cars in this timeframe. Part of the NYCL oval can be seen to the right of the banner.

 

It’s interesting to see the build date stencil look newer than the weigh date stencil. You do not see that everyday.

 

And I’m surprised nobody has commented on the Explosives placard on the door and linking that to the pinto beans banner.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 12:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF (?) Boxcar 9260 With Pinto Bean Load (1914)

 

Hi Bob,

 

Looking at this image, I think the reporting marks might actually be CCC&StL 9260, not ATSF. If this is the case, it is from series 9001-9984, 36ft IL, 40-ton, 167 cars listed in the 12-1930 ORER

 

The railroad workers making chalk marks on the side of the car are going to run out of space soon!

 

Claus Schlund

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 12:48 PM

Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF (?) Boxcar 9260 With Pinto Bean Load (1914)

 

Photo: ATSF (?) Boxcar 9260 With Pinto Bean Load (1914)

A photo from the University of New Mexico:

https://econtent.unm.edu/digital/collection/gkcpc/id/26/rec/146

The photo can be enlarged.

Description:

"Train car shipped in November of 1914 with goods donated by Gross, Kelly & Co. to the Belgium Relief Commission, run by Herbert Hoover. Gross, Kelly & Co. was one of the pioneer wholesale and retail mercantile companies in the Southwest."

Do pinto beans go well with Belgium waffles?

Note the placard on the car reads "Explosives". (Don't go there, readers.)

I could not find a listing for this car, built in 1897, among my Santa Fe records but the end reporting marks appear to include "&SF". Perhaps this car was from a subsidiary road.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

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