Date   

Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Dave Parker
 

Bruce:

Such a breakdown, even if possible, would be a very daunting task just due to the size of the GATX fleet.  If anybody takes a stab at it, my hat is off to them!

I did spend a few minutes thumbing through the 1919 and 1936 tariffs, just counting pages dominated by each car size.  In 1936 (~24,000 cars running under GATX), I'd guesstimate that 8000-gal cars outnumbered 10,000-gals by about 2:1.  A small number of 12,000-gal cars, and rather few under 8000.

In 1919, my sense is that it was similar, but there were more 6000- and 7000-gal cars that presumably did not persist into the 1930s.

I did not look at PGX, CTTX, or Penn-Conley (including TCX) -- only at GATX reporting marks in '36.

Don't know if this helps much.  GATX is a bear to track over time.  OTOH, if anybody is interested in Barrett's fleet of ~1600 asphalt cars running under BMX, I am getting a half-decent handle there.  The most obvious thing is the paucity of 8000-gal cars and the dominance of 10,000-gals.  And "no" multi-compartments!

Given his interest in GATC, David might have more to add.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Storzek & Des Plaines 1916 NYC Auto Box Cars

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 08:02 AM, Donald B. Valentine wrote:
    Hopefully either Dennis has acquired more knowledge of these cars over the last thirty years or Ray Breyer or another list member with knowledge of these cars can respond to my questions.
Don,
Unfortunately writing the history section of the instructions was the end of my research on these cars. As I recall, it was the late Richard Stoving who provided the bulk of the roster data for the NYC cars. As I understood it, first the Michigan Central cars were rolled into the NYC roster, AND THEN the rebuilding and dispositions began.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Baltimore & Ohio Chicago Terminal History book by David Leider

Fritz Milhaupt
 

I got a copy a few weeks ago.

If you have David Leider's book on the pickle industry around the Great Lakes, you'll recognize the layout immediately.

In addition to a general history, a good portion of the book covers major infrastructure projects that the B&OCT participated in-- it had a significant part in many of the grade separation projects across Chicago, as well as the straightening of the South Branch of the Chicago River. It is well-illustrated with plenty of photographs, maps and diagrams.

I enjoyed it immensely, especially the parts about Chicago Grand Central Station and the adjacent downtown freight houses.

A bit of family history: My parents took me, my brother and my sister for a weekend in Chicago the second weekend in November, 1969. We arrived from Grand Rapids on C&O #9 at Grand Central on Friday morning, and had a pleasant weekend seeing the sites and doing touristy things, such as visiting the Museum of Science and Industry, going to Marshall Field's and having dinner at the Berghoff to satisfy my father's appetite for sauerbraten.

Late Sunday afternoon, we arrived at Grand Central for our return trip on C&O #8, to be greeted at the door by signs taped to the doors saying that the C&O's and B&O's trains were now arriving and departing from Northwestern station. My folks, with three children under the age of five, managed a hasty cab ride to Northwestern Station, arriving with but a few minutes to spare. I remember thinking that we were spending an awfully long time waiting at signals on our way out of Chicago, as the train negotiated its new route.

I thoroughly enjoyed this book. It filled in quite a few gaps in my knowledge of the Pere Marquette's operations in Chicago as a tenant of the B&OCT.

-Fritz Milhaupt


Re: ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

Jake Schaible
 

This is likely no mystery to anyone but me, but for weeks I've been perplexed by comparing the aforementioned PJ Student's article re building an Ft-J (v similar to the Ft-I).  Again, Student failed to include the 5 side sill supports that can be seen peaking out from under his article's grainy Cyril Durrenberger image of the ATSF Wt-J 2027?7.  My question is were added on later with one of the several rebuilds?  Or were they original, and Student just ignored this feature in his models.  

Charlie Slater was kind enough to share images of these feature, which show they were not - as I initially suspected - contiguous parts.  Rather they are compound built up plates riveted to the floor support / cross bar features, which seemed for a bit to bolster my hypothesis (and hope) that they were added in one of the later rebuild phases.   Other late images of converted Ft-I cars show these better:   https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Atchison%2C_Topeka%2C_and_Santa_Fe%2C_Flat_Car_97834_%2815894678128%29.jpg

Torn on how to advance, I broke down and finally purchased a book long on my wish list : Hendrickson's "Santa Fe Open-Top Cars" (on sale for just $20 now at https://sfrhms.org/product/vol-7-open-top-cars-flat-gon-hopper-cars-1902-1959/)  No excuse for waiting so long, but at ~1/3 the list price?  Sold!  Anyway, reviewing the Ft-I & Ft-J cars (pg 25 - 28) all show these 5 side sill support features.  Only exception is a converted Wt-J ATSF 191240, caught in 1954.  However several feature of this car (including 8 stake pockets instead of 10 in the as built Ft-I &Ft-J) have me doubting it was part of the Ft-I or -J classes. 

So .... shoot.... now I need to make and fit 10 side sill plates per car... in N scale!   ;-)

 


Baltimore & Ohio Chicago Terminal History book by David Leider

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

I was just browsing on Facebook and found out that David Leider’s new book is available.

 

http://boctbook.dhke.com/?fbclid=IwAR0Mfq20_JKSPeXHiJhridL-sEPakL8K3W9CXaJL3bAO0euRV81YfRLggzw

 

Based on his previous books and the subject matter I am ordering it and I suspect many of you with any interest in the Chicago Area or terminal railroads in general will want it as well….

 

Charlie Vlk

(no affiliation with David other than a very satisfied reader)

 


Re: Photo: PRR Boxcar 531112 (1930)

Eric Hansmann
 

This illustrates the entry of the Monongahela Railway into the Waynesburg yard of the former W&W narrow gauge. The Mon came in from the east while the W&W right of way entered from the west end of town.

 

Some of the narrow gauge facilities were still standing at the time of this February 1930 image. Here’s the turntable and roundhouse.

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1930.05051

 

A third rail was laid on the long siding that served a dozen different businesses.

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1930.05059

 

While this photo is labeled Cattle Pens, the Pennsy flat car is a narrow gauge car used as an idler for switching. It has been fitted with standard and narrow gauge couplers.

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1930.05039

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 11:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR Boxcar 531112 (1930)

 

Photo: PRR Boxcar 531112 (1930)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1930.05045/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Photo editing software will improve the image of the boxcar.

What may be a PRR gondola with a scrap load appears to the left.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

Eric Hansmann
 

That is one of many images on the Historic Pittsburgh site showing repair work after the 33rd Street Sewer Explosion of 1913. The bridge and ground level tracks are all B&O, formerly the Pittsburgh Junction Railway here. There are many vintage freight cars in these photos.

 

This 1910 Hopkins Plat Map shows the location adjacent to the Allegheny River with a Carnegie Steel facility.

https://arcg.is/1bCGP50

 

The bridge approach was above 33rd Street here.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 11:26 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

 

And right behind the flat and gondola is a steam driven pile driver, which you neglected to mention!

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 11:16 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

 

Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133845.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Some good detail of the flatcar.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

Bruce Smith
 

And right behind the flat and gondola is a steam driven pile driver, which you neglected to mention!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 11:16 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)
 

Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133845.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Some good detail of the flatcar.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133845.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Some good detail of the flatcar.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: PRR Boxcar 531112 (1930)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Boxcar 531112 (1930)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1930.05045/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Photo editing software will improve the image of the boxcar.

What may be a PRR gondola with a scrap load appears to the left.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Bruce Smith
 

David, Dave, Folks,

All this discussion of GATC tank cars has me looking at my fleet to see how I might both take advantage of Tangents most recent announcement and adjust my fleet. Are there any indications of a breakdown between car gallonages within a type? For example, is there a feeling on the ration of 8K to 10K tanks in the 1917 cars? I note that David says "most" were one or the other. What about the numbers of different styles within the 1928 design?

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

schmuck804_99@...
 


Re: Storzek & Des Plaines 1916 NYC Auto Box Cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Don,

Do you have Ted Culotta's article "New York Central "1916" Steel Auto Cars and Rebuilt Steel Auto Cars" from the January 2005 RMC?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 11:09 AM Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

    Being a Rutland modeler I have a number of these box car and auto car kits and have some questions about two that turn out to be NYC cars, NOT Rutland versions. For those wo do not know the difference it

is clear to me that when designing these kits Dennis was aware of the fact that the 1916 NYC ordered cars had 6 over 6 rib ends but that the 1924 Rutland ordered cars used a 5 over 7 rib end while being alike in

all other respects. Two auto boxes purchased in the after market as Rutland cars have proven to be NYC cars, which it the reason for the following questions.

 

  1. The instructions Dennis prepared for these car kits state the NYC began to rebuild the auto cars with only 6 ft. doors beginning in 1931. Does this mean the NYC only had auto box cars originally?

 

  1. He further states that one hundred cars were sold to the Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic n 1935

and that “within the next two years most of the rest had been rebuilt as all steel boxcars”. Does

this mean that no cars of this type as either auto box cars or 6 ft. door box cars remained on the entire NYC system? What happened to the cars assigned to the Michigan Central? If an auto box

car of this type were still in use on the Michigan Central in the 1948 era I’d use the decals that

came with the kit and have one Michigan Central car. The other will end up as a D.S.S.&A. car or

a Nickel Plate Road car, that road having acquired a number of them through its purchase of the

Wheeling & Lake Erie.

 

     Hopefully either Dennis has acquired more knowledge of these cars over the last thirty years or Ray Breyer or another list member with knowledge of these cars can respond to my questions.

 

Cordially, Don Valentme

 

.


Re: Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

Eric Hansmann
 

Bob,

 

Your best bet is with the Waynesburg & Washington Facebook group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/wwrailroad

 

Jim Weinschenker runs that and he has a trove of W&W photos. IIRC, many images from the W&W book are now in Jim’s possession.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2020 10:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

 

Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

Does anyone have photos/photo links to the rolling stock of this railroad? Thanks.

From Wikipedia:

The Waynesburg and Washington Railroad was a 28-mile 3 foot gauge subsidiary of the Pennsylvania Railroad. From the 1870s through the 1920s the line served its namesake towns in Southwestern Pennsylvania (often referred to as the Wayynie). After the 1930s, the line did struggle on, but mostly on paper.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
 

Bob,

 

A book was published some time ago on the W&W:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Three-feet-panhandle-Waynesburg-Washington/dp/0912113006/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=waynesburg+and+washington&qid=1601914708&sr=8-1

 

My copy is in storage, so I can’t tell you about the quantity or quality of the photos.  However, it is probably a source for you.

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA


Re: Photo: Steel Beams On PRR Flatcars (Circa 1927-1936)

Eric Hansmann
 

The far right flat car in this image bears a 7-27 weigh stencil.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2020 10:23 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Steel Beams On PRR Flatcars (Circa 1927-1936)

 

Photo: Steel Beams On PRR Flatcars (Circa 1927-1936)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.000016.GN/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

The beams straddle two flatcars apiece.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Storzek & Des Plaines 1916 NYC Auto Box Cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Valentine asked:
"Being a Rutland modeler I have a number of these box car and auto car kits and have some questions about two that turn out to be NYC cars, NOT Rutland versions. For those who do not know the difference it is clear to me that when designing these kits Dennis was aware of the fact that the 1916 NYC ordered cars had 6 over 6 rib ends but that the 1924 Rutland ordered cars used a 5 over 7 rib end while being alike in  all other respects. Two auto boxes purchased in the after market as Rutland cars have proven to be NYC cars, which it the reason for the following questions:
 
1. The instructions Dennis prepared for these car kits state the NYC began to rebuild the auto cars with only 6 ft. doors beginning in 1931. Does this mean the NYC only had auto box cars originally?"

Correct.  Cars were originally in Lots 327-B, 328-B, 329-B, 352-B, 353-B, 357-B, 358-B, 361-B, 363-B, 364-B, 365-B, and 366-B.  See Terry Link's website for more details on individual lots.

"2. He further states that one hundred cars were sold to the Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic in 1935 and that 'within the next two years most of the rest had been rebuilt as all steel boxcars'. Does this mean that no cars of this type as either auto box cars or 6 ft. door box cars remained on the entire NYC system?"

Rebuilt steel boxcar lots include 633-B, 634-B, 637-B, 643-B, 644-B, 648-B, 649-B, 652-B, 654-B, 657-B, 662-B, 663-B, 664-B, 672-B, and 679-B; however, some DS cars survived to at least 1950, though you'll have to check the ORERs for specifics regarding numbers of cars left.  The steel rebuilds were offered by Sunshine, and were surprisingly common cars, with many turning up in the Premo shifting lists.

"What happened to the cars assigned to the Michigan Central? If an auto box car of this type were still in use on the Michigan Central in the 1948 era I’d use the decals that came with the kit and have one Michigan Central car."

The Michigan Central cars were notionally renumbered in NYC car series in 1936, but cars with MCRR reporting marks ran until 1945.  Again, check the applicable ORERs for details.

Finally, these cars are currently available from Westerfield, including the Rutland and DSS&A variations.
Ben Hom



Photo: Steel Beams On PRR Flatcars (Circa 1927-1936)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Steel Beams On PRR Flatcars (Circa 1927-1936)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.000016.GN/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

The beams straddle two flatcars apiece.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

Bob Chaparro
 

Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

Does anyone have photos/photo links to the rolling stock of this railroad? Thanks.

From Wikipedia:

The Waynesburg and Washington Railroad was a 28-mile 3 foot gauge subsidiary of the Pennsylvania Railroad. From the 1870s through the 1920s the line served its namesake towns in Southwestern Pennsylvania (often referred to as the Wayynie). After the 1930s, the line did struggle on, but mostly on paper.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Storzek & Des Plaines 1916 NYC Auto Box Cars

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    Being a Rutland modeler I have a number of these box car and auto car kits and have some questions about two that turn out to be NYC cars, NOT Rutland versions. For those wo do not know the difference it

is clear to me that when designing these kits Dennis was aware of the fact that the 1916 NYC ordered cars had 6 over 6 rib ends but that the 1924 Rutland ordered cars used a 5 over 7 rib end while being alike in

all other respects. Two auto boxes purchased in the after market as Rutland cars have proven to be NYC cars, which it the reason for the following questions.

 

  1. The instructions Dennis prepared for these car kits state the NYC began to rebuild the auto cars with only 6 ft. doors beginning in 1931. Does this mean the NYC only had auto box cars originally?

 

  1. He further states that one hundred cars were sold to the Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic n 1935

and that “within the next two years most of the rest had been rebuilt as all steel boxcars”. Does

this mean that no cars of this type as either auto box cars or 6 ft. door box cars remained on the entire NYC system? What happened to the cars assigned to the Michigan Central? If an auto box

car of this type were still in use on the Michigan Central in the 1948 era I’d use the decals that

came with the kit and have one Michigan Central car. The other will end up as a D.S.S.&A. car or

a Nickel Plate Road car, that road having acquired a number of them through its purchase of the

Wheeling & Lake Erie.

 

     Hopefully either Dennis has acquired more knowledge of these cars over the last thirty years or Ray Breyer or another list member with knowledge of these cars can respond to my questions.

 

Cordially, Don Valentme

 

.

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