Date   

Photo: Wabash Livestock Cars 16429 & 16430 (1933)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Wabash Livestock Cars 16429 & 16430 (1933)

Courtesy of Peter Ness, a photo from the Decatur Herald & Review:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-review.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/2c/02cf515d-b707-516b-ac6c-8253ac3d3ee1/578e9b17a4601.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C955

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Conductor's Train List - GB&W 1945

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Andy;

 

I think your PMcK&Y gon is like these brothers.

 

Note the odd replacement end P&LE put on at least some of these guys, and the replacement handbrake.  The diagonal load is just icing on the cake.

 

Based on how gons were sometimes “borrowed” into service on roads that might not have enough gons, they sometimes ended up in an odd rotation in serving some type of industry that had a need.  Unusual, but not surprising.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Laurent via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:10 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Conductor's Train List - GB&W 1945

 

Gents,
Since one sheet of an AT&SF train list was so interesting, I'll share a copy of a book from a Green Bay & Western Railroad conductor in January-February 1945 that is in my collection.  I tried to attach this to a message awhile back, but it didn't go through...I will link to it instead.

GB&W Conductor's Book 1945

Most of the trains in the book are through-freights, Trains #1 and #2 between Winona, MN and the Pere Marquette & Ann Arbor carferry connections at Kewaunee, WI.  Mr. Hansen's territory seems to be primarily between Green Bay ("0") and Wisconsin Rapids ("96"), with alternating out and back work days. Common stations are:
AA or PM -carferries at Kewaunee 
24 -Black Creek (SOO) 
40 -New London (C&NW) 
70 -Amherst Junction (SOO)
212 -East Winona (CB&Q)
214 -Winona (MILW+CGW).
A station number key can be found in the left column of the industry list here.

As for reporting mark abbreviations, he uses "Q" for CB&Q, "StP" for CMStP&P, "K" for KGB&W (home road), "Penn" for PRR, sometimes "C" for C&NW, and "-" as a ditto mark. There are some interesting occurrences, including gondola PMcK&Y 92481 showing up in his train several times in 2 months!

Enjoy!
Andy Laurent
Madison, WI


Re: Micro Bending Pliers

Bill J.
 

Micromark's house brand is usually terrible.  I bought a set of pliers that included two wire cutters.  Nwither would cut wire greater than .019.

As long as you're buying name brands, you're fine.

Bill Jolitz


Conductor's Train List - GB&W 1945

Andy Laurent
 

Gents,
Since one sheet of an AT&SF train list was so interesting, I'll share a copy of a book from a Green Bay & Western Railroad conductor in January-February 1945 that is in my collection.  I tried to attach this to a message awhile back, but it didn't go through...I will link to it instead.

GB&W Conductor's Book 1945

Most of the trains in the book are through-freights, Trains #1 and #2 between Winona, MN and the Pere Marquette & Ann Arbor carferry connections at Kewaunee, WI.  Mr. Hansen's territory seems to be primarily between Green Bay ("0") and Wisconsin Rapids ("96"), with alternating out and back work days. Common stations are:
AA or PM -carferries at Kewaunee 
24 -Black Creek (SOO) 
40 -New London (C&NW) 
70 -Amherst Junction (SOO)
212 -East Winona (CB&Q)
214 -Winona (MILW+CGW).
A station number key can be found in the left column of the industry list here.

As for reporting mark abbreviations, he uses "Q" for CB&Q, "StP" for CMStP&P, "K" for KGB&W (home road), "Penn" for PRR, sometimes "C" for C&NW, and "-" as a ditto mark. There are some interesting occurrences, including gondola PMcK&Y 92481 showing up in his train several times in 2 months!

Enjoy!
Andy Laurent
Madison, WI


Re: Micro Bending Pliers

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

I agree that making repetitive bends of the same separation is not what this tool is for, though i suppose some kind of jig could be used. For such work I like one of the hand grab bending tools like the “Grab-Handler”. Micro-Mark also has one. One can also make a nice single-purpose jig from plastic or brass.

I still find the little Xuron bending pliers useful for many things like non-standard grabs, brake-piping, etc.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 13, 2020, at 10:26 AM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

I’ve been bending grab irons for lengths not commercially available and bottom mounted uncoupling levers since DA raised the prices several years ago. I use  Xuron fine nose pliers. Personally, I think that the bending pliers would be very difficult to use for grab irons and uncoupling levers because it would be impossible to make repetitive bends of exactly the same length. The fine tip pliers allow more precision so you can place the bend exactly where you want it.
 
Nelson Moyer
 
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paolo Roffo
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 1:38 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Micro Bending Pliers
 
https://www.micromark.com/Xuron-Micro-Bending-Plier

Has anyone tried these pliers from Xuron?  They look like they'd be especially useful for bending cut levers.

Paolo Roffo 
 


Re: Micro Bending Pliers

Nelson Moyer
 

I’ve been bending grab irons for lengths not commercially available and bottom mounted uncoupling levers since DA raised the prices several years ago. I use  Xuron fine nose pliers. Personally, I think that the bending pliers would be very difficult to use for grab irons and uncoupling levers because it would be impossible to make repetitive bends of exactly the same length. The fine tip pliers allow more precision so you can place the bend exactly where you want it.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paolo Roffo
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 1:38 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Micro Bending Pliers

 

https://www.micromark.com/Xuron-Micro-Bending-Plier

Has anyone tried these pliers from Xuron?  They look like they'd be especially useful for bending cut levers.

Paolo Roffo

 


Re: Micro Bending Pliers

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

They work fine for thin sheet metal and small wire. These are the smallest of their type I know of. Action is the same as the Kadee (and other) “bending” pliers, but they make a proportionally sharper bend. Useful in model railroading for bending stirrups, piping, brackets and similar. A nice tool.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 13, 2020, at 2:37 AM, Paolo Roffo <paolo.roffo@...> wrote:

https://www.micromark.com/Xuron-Micro-Bending-Plier

Has anyone tried these pliers from Xuron?  They look like they'd be especially useful for bending cut levers.

Paolo Roffo


Re: Baltimore & Ohio Chicago Terminal History book by David Leider

Ray Hutchison
 

The many bridges required to get into downtown Chicago is an important part of the story here (and it looks as though this is well covered in the book).  There is an older publication from the city planning department devoted to the bridges that list members may want to take a look at as well.

ray hutchison


Micro Bending Pliers

Paolo Roffo
 

https://www.micromark.com/Xuron-Micro-Bending-Plier

Has anyone tried these pliers from Xuron?  They look like they'd be especially useful for bending cut levers.

Paolo Roffo


Re: Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

Jack Mullen
 

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 01:56 PM, staplindave wrote:
Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?
From the Erie on the South Branch of the Chicago River at about 18th St., to freight houses on the North Branch at Erie St. (appropriately) and Webster St.  Later also to North Pier Terminal at the river's mouth.  The operation gave Erie access to the north side for merchandise service, and lasted until c.1936.  The Baldwin gas-mechanicals handled the north side termini.

The operation gets a few pages in Hilton's classic The Great Lakes Car Ferries.

Jack Mullen


Re: P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

Steve SANDIFER
 

Thank you all for the assistance. I have been transcribing the conductor record of E. W. Mills, an ATSF conductor in 1923. The records show 6 mixed trains between Great Bend and Scott City, KS, and 13 through trains between Dodge City and Sand Creek (Newton), KS., ATSF Middle Division. 1088 cars total. Mr. Mills was not consistent in all of his records. For instance A and AT stood for ATSF.  GC was Gulf Colorado and Santa Fe. RD and R were SFRD.  He uses both SOO and MStP&SSM for that line. The P&P makes perfect sense for those cars. The Georgia & Florida is listed in the index to the 1925 ORER but I can not find a page for it in the Westerfield digital edition. Once I get everything straight, I will write an analysis of this document and make the excel file available to any who want to play with it. He also lists cars as A when the ORER makes them BX. I have no located every car in the ORER except the GF.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Makes more sense than anything else we have seen, so far.  29 cars from the range 527-1024 remained in January 1925 ORER.  36 feet inside length.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Krueger
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Could P&P be the ATSF subsidiary Santa Fe Prescott & Phoenix? They had boxcars numbered 501-1024 in 1917.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


Re: Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

Tangent Scale Models
 

Bob,

This is a stunning shot, and the resolution is top notch to boot.  2 comments:

1.  For the "all tank cars on your layout should be black" general statements, you can see all/most lettering on 12 tank cars.  5 out of 12 of them have some sort of Dow 2 inch or larger lettering, or logo, on them.  

2.  GATX 76577 in that photo is an 8000 gallon 1952-design welded tank that matches the Tangent release from 2 years ago.

Thank you for finding and sharing Bob!

David Lehlbach
(GATC tank car geek)


Re: P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

Douglas Harding
 

Yes that makes sense. As Steve is active with the Santa Fe historical society, it would make sense he is working on a ATSF conductor’s record, thus explaining the abbreviations for ATSF and SFRD

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Makes more sense than anything else we have seen, so far.  29 cars from the range 527-1024 remained in January 1925 ORER.  36 feet inside length.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Krueger
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Could P&P be the ATSF subsidiary Santa Fe Prescott & Phoenix? They had boxcars numbered 501-1024 in 1917.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


Re: P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Makes more sense than anything else we have seen, so far.  29 cars from the range 527-1024 remained in January 1925 ORER.  36 feet inside length.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Krueger
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Could P&P be the ATSF subsidiary Santa Fe Prescott & Phoenix? They had boxcars numbered 501-1024 in 1917.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

Paul Krueger
 

Could P&P be the ATSF subsidiary Santa Fe Prescott & Phoenix? They had boxcars numbered 501-1024 in 1917.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

David
 

This one is a 10,000 gallon Dow car, but otherwise shows off the lack of side and end sills of the Type 26:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/24725334589

Aside from that, the car has the typical mid-late 1920s AC&F construction traits: ladder stiles twisted 90 degrees and wrapped over the handrail, the handrail and platform brackets attached to the tank bands, the tank saddle having two outward flanges, and the corner grabs attached just inboard of the end dome rivet pair.

David Thompson


Re: Photo: T&P Livestock Car 22098 (Circa 1946)

Tony Thompson
 

ken akerboom wrote:

A couple questions
-       The “door stop” (plate seen mostly by its shadow) seems a bit thin to me???

     Just a poor modeling job <vbg>.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: T&P Livestock Car 22098 (Circa 1946)

Douglas Harding
 

The angled bracket to the left of the door is used to hold the “bull bar” when it is not in use. This was a wood board used across the door opening to prevent large animals from escaping while the door was being open or closed. It fit into slots within the door framing. When not in use the board was placed in the outside bracket for storage, often with a chain to keep it attached to the car. Not all roads used them.

 

Attached is a photo of a metal one in position in the door opening. And a second photo showing a traditional wood one in the stored position on CBQ 55966.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of akerboomk
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: T&P Livestock Car 22098 (Circa 1946)

 

A couple questions

  • What is the angled steel(?) “bracket”, about half way between reporting marks and door (even with lint under the marks)?
    Something to attach movable railing to, to contain cattle?
  • The “door stop” (plate seen mostly by its shadow) seems a bit thin to me???

 

Ken


--
Ken Akerboom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (1952)

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Among many other things, like sodium hydroxide, DOW Midland made Saran Wrap. This would be shipped in boxcars.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 12, 2020, at 5:51 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> wrote:

Jim, all;

22804 is an almost new 8,000 gallon ICC 103-W, so not pressure tanks, or acid tanks in the 1% dome format, but AC&F-built for lease to whoever, in this case, Dow Chemical. 22774 is slightly older than 22804. Both very common AC&F-built cars.

Sometimes stenciled with the intended contents, these do not appear to be.

It looks like the 22804 is spotted for filling via that filler overhead.

There are older 103's in the long string behind. There IS an acid tank in that string, 8th from right.

Two GATC-built cars to right.

Interesting mix of cars, and both with-, and without-dome platforms. Different manufacturers.

Also, a great mix of box cars behind. Lots of different heights and types of construction. NYC, MoP, who else?

Far in distance are some (I think) insulated pressure tanks, maybe ICC 105's, with valve casing "domes". There has to be a great range of products to support this varied a fleet of cars.

Anyone care to speculate about what the box cars are for? I think a hint might be the presence of those big distillation towers.....

Great pic!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Ogden
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:30 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (1952)

Looking at GATX 24991, might one surmise it’s in acid service? That doesn’t look like an expansion dome to me.

Jim Ogden
Argyle, Texas











Re: Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Take a look at

 

https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-HQLhRft/A

 

It was ID’d last year as a Type 26 car.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

 

David,

 

What are spotting characteristics for this car? I would have called it just about anything but AC&F! 😉

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of David via groups.io <jaydeet2001@...>
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:25 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

 

The real find is DOWX 38109, a ACF Type 26 probably renumbered from 8319
at some point.

David Thompson




6161 - 6180 of 184241