Date   

Re: Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

Jack Mullen
 

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 01:56 PM, staplindave wrote:
Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?
From the Erie on the South Branch of the Chicago River at about 18th St., to freight houses on the North Branch at Erie St. (appropriately) and Webster St.  Later also to North Pier Terminal at the river's mouth.  The operation gave Erie access to the north side for merchandise service, and lasted until c.1936.  The Baldwin gas-mechanicals handled the north side termini.

The operation gets a few pages in Hilton's classic The Great Lakes Car Ferries.

Jack Mullen


Re: P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

Steve SANDIFER
 

Thank you all for the assistance. I have been transcribing the conductor record of E. W. Mills, an ATSF conductor in 1923. The records show 6 mixed trains between Great Bend and Scott City, KS, and 13 through trains between Dodge City and Sand Creek (Newton), KS., ATSF Middle Division. 1088 cars total. Mr. Mills was not consistent in all of his records. For instance A and AT stood for ATSF.  GC was Gulf Colorado and Santa Fe. RD and R were SFRD.  He uses both SOO and MStP&SSM for that line. The P&P makes perfect sense for those cars. The Georgia & Florida is listed in the index to the 1925 ORER but I can not find a page for it in the Westerfield digital edition. Once I get everything straight, I will write an analysis of this document and make the excel file available to any who want to play with it. He also lists cars as A when the ORER makes them BX. I have no located every car in the ORER except the GF.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Makes more sense than anything else we have seen, so far.  29 cars from the range 527-1024 remained in January 1925 ORER.  36 feet inside length.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Krueger
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Could P&P be the ATSF subsidiary Santa Fe Prescott & Phoenix? They had boxcars numbered 501-1024 in 1917.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


Re: Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

Tangent Scale Models
 

Bob,

This is a stunning shot, and the resolution is top notch to boot.  2 comments:

1.  For the "all tank cars on your layout should be black" general statements, you can see all/most lettering on 12 tank cars.  5 out of 12 of them have some sort of Dow 2 inch or larger lettering, or logo, on them.  

2.  GATX 76577 in that photo is an 8000 gallon 1952-design welded tank that matches the Tangent release from 2 years ago.

Thank you for finding and sharing Bob!

David Lehlbach
(GATC tank car geek)


Re: P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

Douglas Harding
 

Yes that makes sense. As Steve is active with the Santa Fe historical society, it would make sense he is working on a ATSF conductor’s record, thus explaining the abbreviations for ATSF and SFRD

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Makes more sense than anything else we have seen, so far.  29 cars from the range 527-1024 remained in January 1925 ORER.  36 feet inside length.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Krueger
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Could P&P be the ATSF subsidiary Santa Fe Prescott & Phoenix? They had boxcars numbered 501-1024 in 1917.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


Re: P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Makes more sense than anything else we have seen, so far.  29 cars from the range 527-1024 remained in January 1925 ORER.  36 feet inside length.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Krueger
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Could P&P be the ATSF subsidiary Santa Fe Prescott & Phoenix? They had boxcars numbered 501-1024 in 1917.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

Paul Krueger
 

Could P&P be the ATSF subsidiary Santa Fe Prescott & Phoenix? They had boxcars numbered 501-1024 in 1917.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

David
 

This one is a 10,000 gallon Dow car, but otherwise shows off the lack of side and end sills of the Type 26:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/24725334589

Aside from that, the car has the typical mid-late 1920s AC&F construction traits: ladder stiles twisted 90 degrees and wrapped over the handrail, the handrail and platform brackets attached to the tank bands, the tank saddle having two outward flanges, and the corner grabs attached just inboard of the end dome rivet pair.

David Thompson


Re: Photo: T&P Livestock Car 22098 (Circa 1946)

Tony Thompson
 

ken akerboom wrote:

A couple questions
-       The “door stop” (plate seen mostly by its shadow) seems a bit thin to me???

     Just a poor modeling job <vbg>.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: T&P Livestock Car 22098 (Circa 1946)

Douglas Harding
 

The angled bracket to the left of the door is used to hold the “bull bar” when it is not in use. This was a wood board used across the door opening to prevent large animals from escaping while the door was being open or closed. It fit into slots within the door framing. When not in use the board was placed in the outside bracket for storage, often with a chain to keep it attached to the car. Not all roads used them.

 

Attached is a photo of a metal one in position in the door opening. And a second photo showing a traditional wood one in the stored position on CBQ 55966.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of akerboomk
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: T&P Livestock Car 22098 (Circa 1946)

 

A couple questions

  • What is the angled steel(?) “bracket”, about half way between reporting marks and door (even with lint under the marks)?
    Something to attach movable railing to, to contain cattle?
  • The “door stop” (plate seen mostly by its shadow) seems a bit thin to me???

 

Ken


--
Ken Akerboom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (1952)

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Among many other things, like sodium hydroxide, DOW Midland made Saran Wrap. This would be shipped in boxcars.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 12, 2020, at 5:51 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> wrote:

Jim, all;

22804 is an almost new 8,000 gallon ICC 103-W, so not pressure tanks, or acid tanks in the 1% dome format, but AC&F-built for lease to whoever, in this case, Dow Chemical. 22774 is slightly older than 22804. Both very common AC&F-built cars.

Sometimes stenciled with the intended contents, these do not appear to be.

It looks like the 22804 is spotted for filling via that filler overhead.

There are older 103's in the long string behind. There IS an acid tank in that string, 8th from right.

Two GATC-built cars to right.

Interesting mix of cars, and both with-, and without-dome platforms. Different manufacturers.

Also, a great mix of box cars behind. Lots of different heights and types of construction. NYC, MoP, who else?

Far in distance are some (I think) insulated pressure tanks, maybe ICC 105's, with valve casing "domes". There has to be a great range of products to support this varied a fleet of cars.

Anyone care to speculate about what the box cars are for? I think a hint might be the presence of those big distillation towers.....

Great pic!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Ogden
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:30 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (1952)

Looking at GATX 24991, might one surmise it’s in acid service? That doesn’t look like an expansion dome to me.

Jim Ogden
Argyle, Texas











Re: Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Take a look at

 

https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-HQLhRft/A

 

It was ID’d last year as a Type 26 car.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

 

David,

 

What are spotting characteristics for this car? I would have called it just about anything but AC&F! 😉

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of David via groups.io <jaydeet2001@...>
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:25 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

 

The real find is DOWX 38109, a ACF Type 26 probably renumbered from 8319
at some point.

David Thompson





Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (1952)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Jim, all;

22804 is an almost new 8,000 gallon ICC 103-W, so not pressure tanks, or acid tanks in the 1% dome format, but AC&F-built for lease to whoever, in this case, Dow Chemical. 22774 is slightly older than 22804. Both very common AC&F-built cars.

Sometimes stenciled with the intended contents, these do not appear to be.

It looks like the 22804 is spotted for filling via that filler overhead.

There are older 103's in the long string behind. There IS an acid tank in that string, 8th from right.

Two GATC-built cars to right.

Interesting mix of cars, and both with-, and without-dome platforms. Different manufacturers.

Also, a great mix of box cars behind. Lots of different heights and types of construction. NYC, MoP, who else?

Far in distance are some (I think) insulated pressure tanks, maybe ICC 105's, with valve casing "domes". There has to be a great range of products to support this varied a fleet of cars.

Anyone care to speculate about what the box cars are for? I think a hint might be the presence of those big distillation towers.....

Great pic!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Ogden
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:30 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (1952)

Looking at GATX 24991, might one surmise it’s in acid service? That doesn’t look like an expansion dome to me.

Jim Ogden
Argyle, Texas


Re: Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

Bruce Smith
 

David,

What are spotting characteristics for this car? I would have called it just about anything but AC&F! 😉

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of David via groups.io <jaydeet2001@...>
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:25 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)
 
The real find is DOWX 38109, a ACF Type 26 probably renumbered from 8319
at some point.

David Thompson






Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (Circa 1950s)

David
 

The real find is DOWX 38109, a ACF Type 26 probably renumbered from 8319 at some point.

David Thompson


Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (1952)

David
 

This is almost one of the prototypes for the Tangent 8k GATC acid tank. The corner grabs are mounted in a different location, though.

David Thompson


Re: Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

staplindave
 

Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?

Dave Staplin


Don't fall into the saur chasm (was Deciphering a Conductor's record)

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Oct 11, 2020, at 22:09, Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@comcast.net> wrote:

From Piedmont & Western Railroad Club website - Railroad reporting marks:
First class source, that.

CGW = Chicago Great Western
LPT =?
<sarcasm>Lone Pine & Tonopah (AKA Little Potties & Toilets), Kermit Paul's layout in Walnut Creek, CA</sarcasm>

MRJX = Marcus-Ruth-Jerome?. Possibly a Mather refrigerator car (type R). The company rendered fat.
Thankyew; I'd seen that in a photo somewhere...

CMstP = Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul - a prior name for Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific (Milwaukee Road)
TIDX = TIDEWATER OIL CO.; TIDE WATER ASSOCIATED OIL CO.; TIDAL REFINING CO.; TIDAL GASOLINE CO.]
GF = Georgia & Florida Railway
MLT = ML&T = Margan's Louisiana & Texas Railroad
see above in re: MRJX.

P&P = P&PU = Peoria & Pekin Union?
KTOX (and tank car) -unknown
s. be DTOX, neh?
It all helps fill in the gaps.


Re: Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

Mansell Peter Hambly
 

Are there any decals that are like this? Thank you.

 

Mansell Peter Hambly

COQUITLAM, B.C.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Andy Carlson
Sent: October 12, 2020 11:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Here is a drawing made by the late Al Armitage of the WP car in early lettering scheme.

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

On Monday, October 12, 2020, 9:30:10 AM PDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

 

 

It seems there’s a Western Pacific boxcar on this float that is the prototype of the resin parts Andy Carlson was recently selling. It’s at the 2:20 mark.

https://youtu.be/eHCJPMATXrk

 

Is that a circular Feather River Route emblem on the right side of the car?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 


Re: Photo: Tanks Cars At Dow Chemical (1952)

Jim Ogden
 

Looking at GATX 24991, might one surmise it’s in acid service? That doesn’t look like an expansion dome to me.

Jim Ogden
Argyle, Texas


Re: Photo: T&P Livestock Car 22098 (Circa 1946)

akerboomk
 

A couple questions

-       What is the angled steel(?) “bracket”, about half way between reporting marks and door (even with lint under the marks)?
Something to attach movable railing to, to contain cattle?

-       The “door stop” (plate seen mostly by its shadow) seems a bit thin to me???

 

Ken


--
Ken Akerboom

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