Date   

Sunshine Models Kit #21.25

Chuck Cover
 

Hi Everyone,

I have a Sunshine Models Kit #21.25 that is labeled C&O 7000 series 1932 ARA boxcar with radial roof.  The  Prototype Date Sheet #21A for the standard ARA 1932 boxcar states that the C&O had 650 of these cars all with a radial roof.  However, the Sunshine Models all time list indicates that Kit #21.25 is an ARA 1932 C&O 7000 series with Hutchins roof.  The kit components come with peaked 4/4 dreadnaught ends and what appears to be a two piece radial roof, photo attached.  Does anyone else have this kit?  Did Sunshine make some kits with a radial roof and change the label while retaining the number of the Hutchins roof kit in the all time list?   There were only 3 standard C&O ARA 1932 cars but 650 with radial roof so I am hoping that this kit is correctly labeled and I have the prototypical radial roof model.  Thanks

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM


Re: Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)
A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:
Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

    Must have been great climbing those wood end ladders in rain or snow.

Tony Thompson




Re: P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

Ian Cranstone
 

On Oct 13, 2020, at 12:12 AM, James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

Thank you all for the assistance. I have been transcribing the conductor record of E. W. Mills, an ATSF conductor in 1923. The records show 6 mixed trains between Great Bend and Scott City, KS, and 13 through trains between Dodge City and Sand Creek (Newton), KS., ATSF Middle Division. 1088 cars total. Mr. Mills was not consistent in all of his records. For instance A and AT stood for ATSF.  GC was Gulf Colorado and Santa Fe. RD and R were SFRD.  He uses both SOO and MStP&SSM for that line. The P&P makes perfect sense for those cars. The Georgia & Florida is listed in the index to the 1925 ORER but I can not find a page for it in the Westerfield digital edition. Once I get everything straight, I will write an analysis of this document and make the excel file available to any who want to play with it. He also lists cars as A when the ORER makes them BX. I have no located every car in the ORER except the GF.

From a 1924 ORER, the Georgia & Florida Railway (G&F) shows 28 cars in the 2403-2499 series (shown as 36’6” 30-ton flat cars).

Ian Cranstone


Re: Photo: Petaluma & Santa Rosa Boxcar 200 (Circa 1940)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Bob,

Great find. These cars carry the slogan "Overnight Freight Service", but to where? They don't have proper dimensional data or visible reweigh date, and so they couldn't go off P&SR rails. At one time the P&SR had a steamboat connection between Petaluma and San Francisco, and that was likely their destination. This all changed in 1932 when the line was acquired by the connecting Northwestern Pacific. These cars could have been handled to Tiburon and the NWP's terminal there. I very much doubt that any P&SR cars were moved by car ferry over to San Francisco. After the Golden Gate Bridge opened in 1937, most local freight to San Francisco would have gone by truck.

Around 1965 on a family trip we stopped to photograph sister car 126 which was sitting detrucked by the road between Sonoma and Clear Lake. This is my late father's photo (Glenn Groff). My black-and-white shot is not worth reproducing (give me a break, I was only 12 years old).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆



On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 1:40 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Petaluma & Santa Rosa Boxcar 200 (Circa 1940)

A photo from the Sonoma County Library:

https://digital.sonomalibrary.org/Documents/Detail/petaluma-and-santa-rosa-r.r.-co.-boxcar-at-trombetta-distribution/64184

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

Eric Hansmann
 

An interesting paint-out section about the reporting marks.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

 

Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A8223.174.RR/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

Eric Hansmann
 

The brick work on those buildings was amazing.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 12:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

 

Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3AMSP57.B059.F08.I01/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3AMSP57.B059.F08.I01/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A8223.174.RR/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Petaluma & Santa Rosa Boxcar 200 (Circa 1940)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Petaluma & Santa Rosa Boxcar 200 (Circa 1940)

A photo from the Sonoma County Library:

https://digital.sonomalibrary.org/Documents/Detail/petaluma-and-santa-rosa-r.r.-co.-boxcar-at-trombetta-distribution/64184

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Wabash Livestock Cars 16429 & 16430 (1933)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Wabash Livestock Cars 16429 & 16430 (1933)

Courtesy of Peter Ness, a photo from the Decatur Herald & Review:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-review.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/2c/02cf515d-b707-516b-ac6c-8253ac3d3ee1/578e9b17a4601.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C955

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Conductor's Train List - GB&W 1945

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Andy;

 

I think your PMcK&Y gon is like these brothers.

 

Note the odd replacement end P&LE put on at least some of these guys, and the replacement handbrake.  The diagonal load is just icing on the cake.

 

Based on how gons were sometimes “borrowed” into service on roads that might not have enough gons, they sometimes ended up in an odd rotation in serving some type of industry that had a need.  Unusual, but not surprising.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Laurent via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:10 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Conductor's Train List - GB&W 1945

 

Gents,
Since one sheet of an AT&SF train list was so interesting, I'll share a copy of a book from a Green Bay & Western Railroad conductor in January-February 1945 that is in my collection.  I tried to attach this to a message awhile back, but it didn't go through...I will link to it instead.

GB&W Conductor's Book 1945

Most of the trains in the book are through-freights, Trains #1 and #2 between Winona, MN and the Pere Marquette & Ann Arbor carferry connections at Kewaunee, WI.  Mr. Hansen's territory seems to be primarily between Green Bay ("0") and Wisconsin Rapids ("96"), with alternating out and back work days. Common stations are:
AA or PM -carferries at Kewaunee 
24 -Black Creek (SOO) 
40 -New London (C&NW) 
70 -Amherst Junction (SOO)
212 -East Winona (CB&Q)
214 -Winona (MILW+CGW).
A station number key can be found in the left column of the industry list here.

As for reporting mark abbreviations, he uses "Q" for CB&Q, "StP" for CMStP&P, "K" for KGB&W (home road), "Penn" for PRR, sometimes "C" for C&NW, and "-" as a ditto mark. There are some interesting occurrences, including gondola PMcK&Y 92481 showing up in his train several times in 2 months!

Enjoy!
Andy Laurent
Madison, WI


Re: Micro Bending Pliers

Bill J.
 

Micromark's house brand is usually terrible.  I bought a set of pliers that included two wire cutters.  Nwither would cut wire greater than .019.

As long as you're buying name brands, you're fine.

Bill Jolitz


Conductor's Train List - GB&W 1945

Andy Laurent
 

Gents,
Since one sheet of an AT&SF train list was so interesting, I'll share a copy of a book from a Green Bay & Western Railroad conductor in January-February 1945 that is in my collection.  I tried to attach this to a message awhile back, but it didn't go through...I will link to it instead.

GB&W Conductor's Book 1945

Most of the trains in the book are through-freights, Trains #1 and #2 between Winona, MN and the Pere Marquette & Ann Arbor carferry connections at Kewaunee, WI.  Mr. Hansen's territory seems to be primarily between Green Bay ("0") and Wisconsin Rapids ("96"), with alternating out and back work days. Common stations are:
AA or PM -carferries at Kewaunee 
24 -Black Creek (SOO) 
40 -New London (C&NW) 
70 -Amherst Junction (SOO)
212 -East Winona (CB&Q)
214 -Winona (MILW+CGW).
A station number key can be found in the left column of the industry list here.

As for reporting mark abbreviations, he uses "Q" for CB&Q, "StP" for CMStP&P, "K" for KGB&W (home road), "Penn" for PRR, sometimes "C" for C&NW, and "-" as a ditto mark. There are some interesting occurrences, including gondola PMcK&Y 92481 showing up in his train several times in 2 months!

Enjoy!
Andy Laurent
Madison, WI


Re: Micro Bending Pliers

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

I agree that making repetitive bends of the same separation is not what this tool is for, though i suppose some kind of jig could be used. For such work I like one of the hand grab bending tools like the “Grab-Handler”. Micro-Mark also has one. One can also make a nice single-purpose jig from plastic or brass.

I still find the little Xuron bending pliers useful for many things like non-standard grabs, brake-piping, etc.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 13, 2020, at 10:26 AM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

I’ve been bending grab irons for lengths not commercially available and bottom mounted uncoupling levers since DA raised the prices several years ago. I use  Xuron fine nose pliers. Personally, I think that the bending pliers would be very difficult to use for grab irons and uncoupling levers because it would be impossible to make repetitive bends of exactly the same length. The fine tip pliers allow more precision so you can place the bend exactly where you want it.
 
Nelson Moyer
 
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paolo Roffo
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 1:38 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Micro Bending Pliers
 
https://www.micromark.com/Xuron-Micro-Bending-Plier

Has anyone tried these pliers from Xuron?  They look like they'd be especially useful for bending cut levers.

Paolo Roffo 
 


Re: Micro Bending Pliers

Nelson Moyer
 

I’ve been bending grab irons for lengths not commercially available and bottom mounted uncoupling levers since DA raised the prices several years ago. I use  Xuron fine nose pliers. Personally, I think that the bending pliers would be very difficult to use for grab irons and uncoupling levers because it would be impossible to make repetitive bends of exactly the same length. The fine tip pliers allow more precision so you can place the bend exactly where you want it.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paolo Roffo
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 1:38 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Micro Bending Pliers

 

https://www.micromark.com/Xuron-Micro-Bending-Plier

Has anyone tried these pliers from Xuron?  They look like they'd be especially useful for bending cut levers.

Paolo Roffo

 


Re: Micro Bending Pliers

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

They work fine for thin sheet metal and small wire. These are the smallest of their type I know of. Action is the same as the Kadee (and other) “bending” pliers, but they make a proportionally sharper bend. Useful in model railroading for bending stirrups, piping, brackets and similar. A nice tool.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 13, 2020, at 2:37 AM, Paolo Roffo <paolo.roffo@...> wrote:

https://www.micromark.com/Xuron-Micro-Bending-Plier

Has anyone tried these pliers from Xuron?  They look like they'd be especially useful for bending cut levers.

Paolo Roffo


Re: Baltimore & Ohio Chicago Terminal History book by David Leider

Ray Hutchison
 

The many bridges required to get into downtown Chicago is an important part of the story here (and it looks as though this is well covered in the book).  There is an older publication from the city planning department devoted to the bridges that list members may want to take a look at as well.

ray hutchison


Micro Bending Pliers

Paolo Roffo
 

https://www.micromark.com/Xuron-Micro-Bending-Plier

Has anyone tried these pliers from Xuron?  They look like they'd be especially useful for bending cut levers.

Paolo Roffo


Re: Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

Jack Mullen
 

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 01:56 PM, staplindave wrote:
Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?
From the Erie on the South Branch of the Chicago River at about 18th St., to freight houses on the North Branch at Erie St. (appropriately) and Webster St.  Later also to North Pier Terminal at the river's mouth.  The operation gave Erie access to the north side for merchandise service, and lasted until c.1936.  The Baldwin gas-mechanicals handled the north side termini.

The operation gets a few pages in Hilton's classic The Great Lakes Car Ferries.

Jack Mullen


Re: P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

Steve SANDIFER
 

Thank you all for the assistance. I have been transcribing the conductor record of E. W. Mills, an ATSF conductor in 1923. The records show 6 mixed trains between Great Bend and Scott City, KS, and 13 through trains between Dodge City and Sand Creek (Newton), KS., ATSF Middle Division. 1088 cars total. Mr. Mills was not consistent in all of his records. For instance A and AT stood for ATSF.  GC was Gulf Colorado and Santa Fe. RD and R were SFRD.  He uses both SOO and MStP&SSM for that line. The P&P makes perfect sense for those cars. The Georgia & Florida is listed in the index to the 1925 ORER but I can not find a page for it in the Westerfield digital edition. Once I get everything straight, I will write an analysis of this document and make the excel file available to any who want to play with it. He also lists cars as A when the ORER makes them BX. I have no located every car in the ORER except the GF.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Makes more sense than anything else we have seen, so far.  29 cars from the range 527-1024 remained in January 1925 ORER.  36 feet inside length.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Krueger
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 8:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

 

Could P&P be the ATSF subsidiary Santa Fe Prescott & Phoenix? They had boxcars numbered 501-1024 in 1917.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA

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