Date   

Re: Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

schmuck804_99@...
 


Re: Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Steve,

The Sanborn maps would probably tell you what you need. Another possible source is the War Department's "Ports Series" about all the major US ports. These volumes included fairly detailed maps of railroad facilities in the port areas, and certainly would have highlighted any car float bridges. Since my retirement from the UVA Library, I have lost access to both these sources, but maybe you or someone here could check in your area. The Ports Series would most likely be found in a US Government Depository Library (two per state, and usually at a major university or the state library).

By the way, the Ports Series is still being issued, now by the DoD. Usually these volumes are updated every 4-6 years. They are a great source of information on rail traffic, at least as far as trackage around the port areas. My interest was in the volumes covering Sacramento in the 1950s, which had nifty fold-out track maps.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 10:35 PM Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

Between 1926 and 1929 the south branch of the Chicago River was straightened in a massive project that was supposed to improve road traffic flow south of the Loop and give the railroads more space on the east side of the river.  There is an aerial photo of the project at

 

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/10583.html

 

that can be zoomed.

 

The Erie freight house is in the lower right hand quadrant, south and east from the large Rock Island terminal elevator.

 

 

What I can’t figure out is where the Erie car float was in relation to the freight house.  There is one track from the area of the freight house that curves around toward the river, passing under Clark Street (I guess) and numerous RR bridges.  Perhaps it is right there in the lower corner of the photo.

 

Looking a little further south, I do see what looks like the Erie car float.

 

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 8:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Dave and All-

The Erie had a freight house at 14th & Clark Street on the east bank of the south branch of the Chicago River which was south of the passenger terminals and the main business district of Chicago.

Prior to establishing their car float transfer on the river the railroad had to hand over all their LCL traffic to teamsters or the Chicago Tunnel System.   There is was direct route from the south side on the east side of the Chicago River to the north except via the terminal railroads.

The Erie established a car float connecting to their tracks at 14th & Clark streets near their freight house and on the north branch of the Chicago River at Kingsbury & Erie Streets had a CMSP&P connection and Webster Street which had a connection to the C&NW.     There was also a dock at Market Street & Washington on the south branch adjacent to the downtown area.

It is likely that the Kingsbury Street facility was used primarily to receive and deliver LCL to the nearby catalog centers of Sears and Montgomery Wards.

It and the Webster Street facility further north could accommodate carloads to and from industries served by the CMSP&P & C&NW.  The service was successful and cut days off of the handling of cars to and from the north side for the Erie.

The Erie’s Chicago River car float operation lasted from 1913 to 1938 .

The above information was gleaned from Erie Railroad Historical Society articles which include maps, drawings of the car float depots and the gas mechanical switcher(s).

There was a direct rail link between the IC/MC and C&NW over a swing bridge at the mouth of the Chicago River but little is known about it (at least by this researcher) but the pressure of river traffic caused its removal at some point.

While there was the St. Charles Air Line which served as an important early transfer link between the IC/MC and CB&Q/G&CU (C&NW) its importance as a interchange line dwindled as switching yards moved out of Chicago (Hawthorne and the Q, Proviso on the C&NW, Markham on the IC, Bensenville on the MILW, etc.) and the terminal roads took over the interchange traffic.

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of staplindave via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:57 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?

 

Dave Staplin


Re: Sunshine Models Kit #21.25

Jim Gates
 


Full text for 21.25 on the flyer:

"C&O 7000 series 1932 boxcar w/Hutchins radial roof"

It is a Hutchins design radial roof. Both descriptions you list are correct but incomplete.

The three ARA standard cars were covered by kit 21.3. Kit 21.26 is the same car you have with express decals.

Jim Gates

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020, 03:09:48 PM CDT, Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:


Hi Everyone,

I have a Sunshine Models Kit #21.25 that is labeled C&O 7000 series 1932 ARA boxcar with radial roof.  The  Prototype Date Sheet #21A for the standard ARA 1932 boxcar states that the C&O had 650 of these cars all with a radial roof.  However, the Sunshine Models all time list indicates that Kit #21.25 is an ARA 1932 C&O 7000 series with Hutchins roof.  The kit components come with peaked 4/4 dreadnaught ends and what appears to be a two piece radial roof, photo attached.  Does anyone else have this kit?  Did Sunshine make some kits with a radial roof and change the label while retaining the number of the Hutchins roof kit in the all time list?   There were only 3 standard C&O ARA 1932 cars but 650 with radial roof so I am hoping that this kit is correctly labeled and I have the prototypical radial roof model.  Thanks

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM


Re: Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Between 1926 and 1929 the south branch of the Chicago River was straightened in a massive project that was supposed to improve road traffic flow south of the Loop and give the railroads more space on the east side of the river.  There is an aerial photo of the project at

 

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/10583.html

 

that can be zoomed.

 

The Erie freight house is in the lower right hand quadrant, south and east from the large Rock Island terminal elevator.

 

 

What I can’t figure out is where the Erie car float was in relation to the freight house.  There is one track from the area of the freight house that curves around toward the river, passing under Clark Street (I guess) and numerous RR bridges.  Perhaps it is right there in the lower corner of the photo.

 

Looking a little further south, I do see what looks like the Erie car float.

 

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 8:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Dave and All-

The Erie had a freight house at 14th & Clark Street on the east bank of the south branch of the Chicago River which was south of the passenger terminals and the main business district of Chicago.

Prior to establishing their car float transfer on the river the railroad had to hand over all their LCL traffic to teamsters or the Chicago Tunnel System.   There is was direct route from the south side on the east side of the Chicago River to the north except via the terminal railroads.

The Erie established a car float connecting to their tracks at 14th & Clark streets near their freight house and on the north branch of the Chicago River at Kingsbury & Erie Streets had a CMSP&P connection and Webster Street which had a connection to the C&NW.     There was also a dock at Market Street & Washington on the south branch adjacent to the downtown area.

It is likely that the Kingsbury Street facility was used primarily to receive and deliver LCL to the nearby catalog centers of Sears and Montgomery Wards.

It and the Webster Street facility further north could accommodate carloads to and from industries served by the CMSP&P & C&NW.  The service was successful and cut days off of the handling of cars to and from the north side for the Erie.

The Erie’s Chicago River car float operation lasted from 1913 to 1938 .

The above information was gleaned from Erie Railroad Historical Society articles which include maps, drawings of the car float depots and the gas mechanical switcher(s).

There was a direct rail link between the IC/MC and C&NW over a swing bridge at the mouth of the Chicago River but little is known about it (at least by this researcher) but the pressure of river traffic caused its removal at some point.

While there was the St. Charles Air Line which served as an important early transfer link between the IC/MC and CB&Q/G&CU (C&NW) its importance as a interchange line dwindled as switching yards moved out of Chicago (Hawthorne and the Q, Proviso on the C&NW, Markham on the IC, Bensenville on the MILW, etc.) and the terminal roads took over the interchange traffic.

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of staplindave via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:57 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?

 

Dave Staplin


Re: Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

Scott
 

I agree with Eric the architecture of the era is amazing.

Maybe somebody versed in semi truck trailers can give us a rough date.

That is a neat looking vinegar car for sure.

Scott McDonald 


Re: Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

Charlie Vlk
 

Dave and All-

The Erie had a freight house at 14th & Clark Street on the east bank of the south branch of the Chicago River which was south of the passenger terminals and the main business district of Chicago.

Prior to establishing their car float transfer on the river the railroad had to hand over all their LCL traffic to teamsters or the Chicago Tunnel System.   There is was direct route from the south side on the east side of the Chicago River to the north except via the terminal railroads.

The Erie established a car float connecting to their tracks at 14th & Clark streets near their freight house and on the north branch of the Chicago River at Kingsbury & Erie Streets had a CMSP&P connection and Webster Street which had a connection to the C&NW.     There was also a dock at Market Street & Washington on the south branch adjacent to the downtown area.

It is likely that the Kingsbury Street facility was used primarily to receive and deliver LCL to the nearby catalog centers of Sears and Montgomery Wards.

It and the Webster Street facility further north could accommodate carloads to and from industries served by the CMSP&P & C&NW.  The service was successful and cut days off of the handling of cars to and from the north side for the Erie.

The Erie’s Chicago River car float operation lasted from 1913 to 1938 .

The above information was gleaned from Erie Railroad Historical Society articles which include maps, drawings of the car float depots and the gas mechanical switcher(s).

There was a direct rail link between the IC/MC and C&NW over a swing bridge at the mouth of the Chicago River but little is known about it (at least by this researcher) but the pressure of river traffic caused its removal at some point.

While there was the St. Charles Air Line which served as an important early transfer link between the IC/MC and CB&Q/G&CU (C&NW) its importance as a interchange line dwindled as switching yards moved out of Chicago (Hawthorne and the Q, Proviso on the C&NW, Markham on the IC, Bensenville on the MILW, etc.) and the terminal roads took over the interchange traffic.

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of staplindave via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:57 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?

 

Dave Staplin


Re: Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Bob and List Members,
 
I'm thinking the car might have reporting marks HJHX 210
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 1:43 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3AMSP57.B059.F08.I01/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Mid 1970s Maybrook NY NYNH&H

mark_landgraf
 

I have about 6 months of interchange and local industrial switching between Maybrook-Poughkeepsie and Hopewell Jct.  It identifies customer, car type, commodity, reporting marks, car number, originating RR, interchange location. The daily yard masters sheets deal with yard counts and interchange info from all of the rr's interchanging at Maybrook. This has all been scanned. It is about 20 gigs of data. It contains a doc file of as many abbreviations that I was able to decifer. I cheated, the Yardmaster at the time was available to answer questions. 

If somebody is interested in this territory I would make this available by CD to 2 or 3 people. I don't want to send out more than 3 CDs. I don't care if you share the data among yourselves. 

Mark Landgraf 
Albany NY




_._,_
_._,_._,_


Sunshine Models Kit #21.25

David
 

That appears to be the correct Cambre radial roof, manufactured by Hutchins. The end fascia for these cars had a curved top to match the roof, and a peaked bottom to match the car end.

David Thompson


Re: Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

earlyrail
 

More interesting to me is
BC-R&N 4178  merged into the Rock Island in 1903

ORER July 1904
series 4000-4268 inside: 28, 5 3/4; 7, 11 3/4; 6, 7 1/4; 40000 cpy; 213 cars
original series 4002 - 5002 even numbers, stated in 1890

Howard Garner


Re: Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

Douglas Harding
 

There is a BCR&N boxcar under that bridge, with the outline of the RI shield, which reads Rock Island System. The Burlington Cedar Rapids & Northern ceased to exist in June of 1903, when it was purchased by the Rock Island. The shield is brighter than the reporting marks, suggesting it was painted on an existing paint scheme soon after the takeover. If the photo dates from 1904, the shield is perhaps only few months old.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

 

Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A8223.174.RR/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Sunshine Models Kit #21.25

Chuck Cover
 

Hi Everyone,

I have a Sunshine Models Kit #21.25 that is labeled C&O 7000 series 1932 ARA boxcar with radial roof.  The  Prototype Date Sheet #21A for the standard ARA 1932 boxcar states that the C&O had 650 of these cars all with a radial roof.  However, the Sunshine Models all time list indicates that Kit #21.25 is an ARA 1932 C&O 7000 series with Hutchins roof.  The kit components come with peaked 4/4 dreadnaught ends and what appears to be a two piece radial roof, photo attached.  Does anyone else have this kit?  Did Sunshine make some kits with a radial roof and change the label while retaining the number of the Hutchins roof kit in the all time list?   There were only 3 standard C&O ARA 1932 cars but 650 with radial roof so I am hoping that this kit is correctly labeled and I have the prototypical radial roof model.  Thanks

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM


Re: Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)
A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:
Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

    Must have been great climbing those wood end ladders in rain or snow.

Tony Thompson




Re: P&P Re: Deciphering a Conductor's record

Ian Cranstone
 

On Oct 13, 2020, at 12:12 AM, James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

Thank you all for the assistance. I have been transcribing the conductor record of E. W. Mills, an ATSF conductor in 1923. The records show 6 mixed trains between Great Bend and Scott City, KS, and 13 through trains between Dodge City and Sand Creek (Newton), KS., ATSF Middle Division. 1088 cars total. Mr. Mills was not consistent in all of his records. For instance A and AT stood for ATSF.  GC was Gulf Colorado and Santa Fe. RD and R were SFRD.  He uses both SOO and MStP&SSM for that line. The P&P makes perfect sense for those cars. The Georgia & Florida is listed in the index to the 1925 ORER but I can not find a page for it in the Westerfield digital edition. Once I get everything straight, I will write an analysis of this document and make the excel file available to any who want to play with it. He also lists cars as A when the ORER makes them BX. I have no located every car in the ORER except the GF.

From a 1924 ORER, the Georgia & Florida Railway (G&F) shows 28 cars in the 2403-2499 series (shown as 36’6” 30-ton flat cars).

Ian Cranstone


Re: Photo: Petaluma & Santa Rosa Boxcar 200 (Circa 1940)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Bob,

Great find. These cars carry the slogan "Overnight Freight Service", but to where? They don't have proper dimensional data or visible reweigh date, and so they couldn't go off P&SR rails. At one time the P&SR had a steamboat connection between Petaluma and San Francisco, and that was likely their destination. This all changed in 1932 when the line was acquired by the connecting Northwestern Pacific. These cars could have been handled to Tiburon and the NWP's terminal there. I very much doubt that any P&SR cars were moved by car ferry over to San Francisco. After the Golden Gate Bridge opened in 1937, most local freight to San Francisco would have gone by truck.

Around 1965 on a family trip we stopped to photograph sister car 126 which was sitting detrucked by the road between Sonoma and Clear Lake. This is my late father's photo (Glenn Groff). My black-and-white shot is not worth reproducing (give me a break, I was only 12 years old).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆



On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 1:40 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Petaluma & Santa Rosa Boxcar 200 (Circa 1940)

A photo from the Sonoma County Library:

https://digital.sonomalibrary.org/Documents/Detail/petaluma-and-santa-rosa-r.r.-co.-boxcar-at-trombetta-distribution/64184

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

Eric Hansmann
 

An interesting paint-out section about the reporting marks.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

 

Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A8223.174.RR/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

Eric Hansmann
 

The brick work on those buildings was amazing.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 12:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

 

Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3AMSP57.B059.F08.I01/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Heinz Vinegar Car (Undated)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3AMSP57.B059.F08.I01/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PCC&StLR Boxcar 2607 (1904)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A8223.174.RR/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Petaluma & Santa Rosa Boxcar 200 (Circa 1940)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Petaluma & Santa Rosa Boxcar 200 (Circa 1940)

A photo from the Sonoma County Library:

https://digital.sonomalibrary.org/Documents/Detail/petaluma-and-santa-rosa-r.r.-co.-boxcar-at-trombetta-distribution/64184

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

10601 - 10620 of 188701