Identity Of This Car? (Undated)
Identity Of This Car? (Undated) A photo from the Detroit Public Library: https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A256620 Click and hold to enlarge photo. Description: View of the trailer of a Yellow Truck and Coach truck for the T.M.E.R. & L. Co. being loaded into a railroad freight car. Handwritten on back: "Yellow Truck & Coach." Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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ATSF in California
Paul Doggett
Hi
Does anyone know if the ATSF hauled sugar beets in California in the early 1950s if so whereabouts. Many thanks Paul Doggett. England 🏴
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Re: Photo: FGEX 35754 With Potato Load (1943)
Bill Parks
Bill -
You are correct. -- Bill Parks Cumming, GA Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida
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Re: Library of Congress photo (was CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?)
Robert kirkham
Mangled that. Meant Way of the Zephyrs. Rob
On Oct 22, 2020, at 6:19 PM, Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote: Two more CB&Q cars are evident in the back of this photo - both are near the centre (side to side), and (counting front to back, only tracks with cars on them) on tracks 7 and 9 (I think). Both steel cars. Both have "Way of the West” slogans facing the camera, and the white Burlington Route with the main car colour (no black) background. I have the impression the further car has a galvanized roof and paint on the seem caps only. Less obvious about the nearer car - could that be a black roof? Rob On Oct 22, 2020, at 3:09 PM, akerboomk <ken-akerboom@...> wrote: I like the roof (and roofwalk) colors And note the ratio of wood roofwalks (most) to steel (very few) Ken -- Ken Akerboom
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Re: Library of Congress photo (was CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?)
Robert kirkham
Two more CB&Q cars are evident in the back of this photo - both are near the centre (side to side), and (counting front to back, only tracks with cars on them) on tracks 7 and 9 (I think). Both steel cars. Both have "Way of the West” slogans facing the camera, and the white Burlington Route with the main car colour (no black) background. I have the impression the further car has a galvanized roof and paint on the seem caps only. Less obvious about the nearer car - could that be a black roof? Rob
On Oct 22, 2020, at 3:09 PM, akerboomk <ken-akerboom@...> wrote: I like the roof (and roofwalk) colors And note the ratio of wood roofwalks (most) to steel (very few) Ken -- Ken Akerboom
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Re: Photo: FGEX 35754 With Potato Load (1943)
Bill Welch
It is my understanding that Hastings grown potatoes are particularly well suited for Potato Chips.
Bill Welch
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Re: Photo: Wabash Gondola 2963 (Undated)
earlyrail
Checking the ORER's All coal cars from 1893 on were in the 3xxxx series the 32963 is not listed in the March 1899 ORER Listed in the Jun 1900 ORER with an interior of 33ft. Howard Garner
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Re: Library of Congress photo (was CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?)
akerboomk
I like the roof (and roofwalk) colors And note the ratio of wood roofwalks (most) to steel (very few) Ken -- Ken Akerboom
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Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?
Nelson Moyer
Understood, but I later said I used semi-gloss and satin, not gloss.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 4:15 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?
Nelson Moyer wrote:
It's quite true that freshly painted prototype freight cars were glossy. But within a month on the road, that shine had become dull, as numerous photos of very recently built but not new cars will document. Accordingly, I would hesitate to suggest any gloss on a model freight car -- unless you model a paint shop. There is also the factor that reflections "don't scale." By that I mean that the light reflections look far too big on models. It's most noticeable on model automobiles, which really do not look right with shiny paint, even though the prototypes, when washed, do look that way. My own view is that shiny paint is very rarely looks "right" on an HO scale model. Of anything.
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Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?
Tony Thompson
Nelson Moyer wrote:
It's quite true that freshly painted prototype freight cars were glossy. But within a month on the road, that shine had become dull, as numerous photos of very recently built but not new cars will document. Accordingly, I would hesitate to suggest any gloss on a model freight car -- unless you model a paint shop. There is also the factor that reflections "don't scale." By that I mean that the light reflections look far too big on models. It's most noticeable on model automobiles, which really do not look right with shiny paint, even though the prototypes, when washed, do look that way. My own view is that shiny paint is very rarely looks "right" on an HO scale model. Of anything. Tony Thompson
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Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?
Robert kirkham
Good thing no one is suggesting oversimplification.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Rob
On Oct 22, 2020, at 1:03 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote: Photos are good for weathering, chalk marks, etc. but not so good for color. There are two basic approaches to painting freight cars, paint for a new car paint job and weather according to age after painting and car usage, or paint to resemble faded oxidized paint and weather from there. Obviously the first approach requires more fading and weathering effort for an old paint heavily used look. I use the first approach, paint as new, and do the fading and weather later, or not for some cars.
As for freight car reds and browns, by far the most accurate paints are from Tru Color because they went to great effort to hire color consultants with access to prototype railroad color drift cards, and they matched their colors to the prototype as closely as possible. If you want the new paint look use Tru Color. If you want faded oxidized paint, it really doesn’t matter that color use as long as you’re in the right red or brown family.
Then there is the topcoat issue. Prototype freight cars aren’t dead flat when newly painted, despite the fact that model railroad tradition demands a flat finish, typically Dullcote. Lately, it’s not uncommon to see various degrees of paint shine from fairly glossy to satin and flat, again depending upon the car age since last painting. Tru Color dries glossy, which means you don’t have to spray a gloss coat before decaling – one less step than using a flat freight car color. I use semi-gloss, satin, and flat clear coats to provide another indication of age since painting.
Be aware that some acrylic clear coats cloud paint color, whereas lacquers typically don’t cloud the color. Future is an exception to the acrylic clouding issue.
Then there’s the issue of color temperature of layout lighting, which has been exhaustively discussed here, so look at the archives. Your freight car reds and browns will look quite different under warm lighting than under cool lighting. I use 5000 K lights with a high CRI index for true color rendition.
Color rendition of film has already been discussed. Time of day and sun angle were not mentioned, but they affect color, as does atmospheric haze, etc., etc.
So selecting paint colors by matching color photographs is a gross oversimplification, especially with color photographs from the 1940s and 1950s.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Fair enough. But I like to start with a photo and go from there. One of my challenges is that 1950’s paint isn’t a great reference for my 1946 model era. And my other challenge is that I wasn’t born yet, and have no memories from that time - so need to start somewhere.
I found one image so far this morning: https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsac.1a34690/. There, in the middle distance, behind the concrete block building, is a CB&Q single sheathed car. I find the comparison with what is shown on other cars in this yard view helpful modelling information.
Rob On Oct 22, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote:
Rob,
I know nothing about those cars, but do know a little about photography. So I pass along that the color palette of WWII era Kodachrome, which was the slide film stock used back then, had a very warm tone, towards the red end of the spectrum. The images are beautiful, but if looking for color "accuracy", just be aware.
Then there is the "color" that your monitor "sees". Whole 'nother issue.
Bill
Bill McClure
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Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?
Robert kirkham
Here’s another photo from the Library of Congress Farm/War Admin collections:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Rob
On Oct 22, 2020, at 12:06 PM, Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote: Fair enough. But I like to start with a photo and go from there. One of my challenges is that 1950’s paint isn’t a great reference for my 1946 model era. And my other challenge is that I wasn’t born yet, and have no memories from that time - so need to start somewhere.
I found one image so far this morning: https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsac.1a34690/. There, in the middle distance, behind the concrete block building, is a CB&Q single sheathed car. I find the comparison with what is shown on other cars in this yard view helpful modelling information. Rob On Oct 22, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote: Rob, I know nothing about those cars, but do know a little about photography. So I pass along that the color palette of WWII era Kodachrome, which was the slide film stock used back then, had a very warm tone, towards the red end of the spectrum. The images are beautiful, but if looking for color "accuracy", just be aware. Then there is the "color" that your monitor "sees". Whole 'nother issue. Bill Bill McClure www.billmcclure.smugmug.com
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Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?
Nelson Moyer
Photos are good for weathering, chalk marks, etc. but not so good for color. There are two basic approaches to painting freight cars, paint for a new car paint job and weather according to age after painting and car usage, or paint to resemble faded oxidized paint and weather from there. Obviously the first approach requires more fading and weathering effort for an old paint heavily used look. I use the first approach, paint as new, and do the fading and weather later, or not for some cars.
As for freight car reds and browns, by far the most accurate paints are from Tru Color because they went to great effort to hire color consultants with access to prototype railroad color drift cards, and they matched their colors to the prototype as closely as possible. If you want the new paint look use Tru Color. If you want faded oxidized paint, it really doesn’t matter that color use as long as you’re in the right red or brown family.
Then there is the topcoat issue. Prototype freight cars aren’t dead flat when newly painted, despite the fact that model railroad tradition demands a flat finish, typically Dullcote. Lately, it’s not uncommon to see various degrees of paint shine from fairly glossy to satin and flat, again depending upon the car age since last painting. Tru Color dries glossy, which means you don’t have to spray a gloss coat before decaling – one less step than using a flat freight car color. I use semi-gloss, satin, and flat clear coats to provide another indication of age since painting.
Be aware that some acrylic clear coats cloud paint color, whereas lacquers typically don’t cloud the color. Future is an exception to the acrylic clouding issue.
Then there’s the issue of color temperature of layout lighting, which has been exhaustively discussed here, so look at the archives. Your freight car reds and browns will look quite different under warm lighting than under cool lighting. I use 5000 K lights with a high CRI index for true color rendition.
Color rendition of film has already been discussed. Time of day and sun angle were not mentioned, but they affect color, as does atmospheric haze, etc., etc.
So selecting paint colors by matching color photographs is a gross oversimplification, especially with color photographs from the 1940s and 1950s.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 2:06 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?
Fair enough. But I like to start with a photo and go from there. One of my challenges is that 1950’s paint isn’t a great reference for my 1946 model era. And my other challenge is that I wasn’t born yet, and have no memories from that time - so need to start somewhere.
I found one image so far this morning: https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsac.1a34690/. There, in the middle distance, behind the concrete block building, is a CB&Q single sheathed car. I find the comparison with what is shown on other cars in this yard view helpful modelling information.
Rob On Oct 22, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote:
Rob,
I know nothing about those cars, but do know a little about photography. So I pass along that the color palette of WWII era Kodachrome, which was the slide film stock used back then, had a very warm tone, towards the red end of the spectrum. The images are beautiful, but if looking for color "accuracy", just be aware.
Then there is the "color" that your monitor "sees". Whole 'nother issue.
Bill
Bill McClure
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Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?
Robert kirkham
Fair enough. But I like to start with a photo and go from there. One of my challenges is that 1950’s paint isn’t a great reference for my 1946 model era. And my other challenge is that I wasn’t born yet, and have no memories from that time - so need to start somewhere.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I found one image so far this morning: https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsac.1a34690/. There, in the middle distance, behind the concrete block building, is a CB&Q single sheathed car. I find the comparison with what is shown on other cars in this yard view helpful modelling information. Rob
On Oct 22, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote: Rob, I know nothing about those cars, but do know a little about photography. So I pass along that the color palette of WWII era Kodachrome, which was the slide film stock used back then, had a very warm tone, towards the red end of the spectrum. The images are beautiful, but if looking for color "accuracy", just be aware. Then there is the "color" that your monitor "sees". Whole 'nother issue. Bill Bill McClure www.billmcclure.smugmug.com
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Re: Photo: Wabash Gondola 2963 (Undated)
mel perry
wasn't plans for this car, featured in MR back.in the 60' mel perry
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Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?
Bill McClure
Rob, I know nothing about those cars, but do know a little about photography. So I pass along that the color palette of WWII era Kodachrome, which was the slide film stock used back then, had a very warm tone, towards the red end of the spectrum. The images are beautiful, but if looking for color "accuracy", just be aware. Then there is the "color" that your monitor "sees". Whole 'nother issue. Bill Bill McClure www.billmcclure.smugmug.com
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Re: Photo: Pacific Electric Boxcar 10069 (1947)
Tony Thompson
Bob Chaparro wrote:
I love the trucks you can see in the photo! Tony Thompson
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Photo: Wabash Gondola 2963 (Undated)
Photo: Wabash Gondola 2963 (Undated) Photo from the State Historical Society Of Missouri: https://cdm17228.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/imc/id/42531/rec/7 Scroll on the photo to enlarge it. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Photo: Pacific Electric Boxcar 10069 (1947)
Photo: Pacific Electric Boxcar 10069 (1947) Photo from the Los Angeles Public Library: https://tessa.lapl.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/photos/id/28746/rec/40 Use the slider to enlarge the photo. Description: "Photograph shows one of 31 freight cars being decorated at PE's West Hollywood shops by the motion picture studios for tonight's festivities in Hollywood celebrating the beginning of the National Friendship Train's progress across the U.S. with food for Europe. Photograph dated November 7, 1947." Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Rob;
As I recall, there are those great Delano photos, as well as others, taken in Chicago during WW2 that include some CB&Q cars.
Elden Gatwood
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:00 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?
Hi there,
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