Date   

Re: Photo: Wabash Gondola 2963 (Undated)

earlyrail
 

Checking the ORER's
All coal cars from 1893 on were in the 3xxxx series
the 32963 is not listed in the March 1899 ORER
Listed in the Jun 1900 ORER with an interior of 33ft.

Howard Garner


Re: Library of Congress photo (was CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?)

akerboomk
 

I like the roof (and roofwalk) colors

And note the ratio of wood roofwalks (most) to steel (very few)

Ken


--
Ken Akerboom


Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

Nelson Moyer
 

Understood, but I later said I used semi-gloss and satin, not gloss.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 4:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

 

Nelson Moyer wrote:

Then there is the topcoat issue. Prototype freight cars aren’t dead flat when newly painted, despite the fact that model railroad tradition demands a flat finish, typically Dullcote. Lately, it’s not uncommon to see various degrees of paint shine from fairly glossy to satin and flat, again depending upon the car age since last painting. 

   It's quite true that freshly painted prototype freight cars were glossy. But within a month on the road, that shine had become dull, as numerous photos of very recently built but not new cars will document. Accordingly, I would hesitate to suggest any gloss on a model freight car -- unless you model a paint shop.

      There is also the factor that reflections "don't scale." By that I mean that the light reflections look far too big on models. It's most noticeable on model automobiles, which really do not look right with shiny paint, even though the prototypes, when washed, do look that way. My own view is that shiny paint is very rarely looks "right" on an HO scale model. Of anything.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

Tony Thompson
 

Nelson Moyer wrote:

Then there is the topcoat issue. Prototype freight cars aren’t dead flat when newly painted, despite the fact that model railroad tradition demands a flat finish, typically Dullcote. Lately, it’s not uncommon to see various degrees of paint shine from fairly glossy to satin and flat, again depending upon the car age since last painting. 

   It's quite true that freshly painted prototype freight cars were glossy. But within a month on the road, that shine had become dull, as numerous photos of very recently built but not new cars will document. Accordingly, I would hesitate to suggest any gloss on a model freight car -- unless you model a paint shop.
      There is also the factor that reflections "don't scale." By that I mean that the light reflections look far too big on models. It's most noticeable on model automobiles, which really do not look right with shiny paint, even though the prototypes, when washed, do look that way. My own view is that shiny paint is very rarely looks "right" on an HO scale model. Of anything.

Tony Thompson




Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

Robert kirkham
 

Good thing no one is suggesting oversimplification.

Rob

On Oct 22, 2020, at 1:03 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

Photos are good for weathering, chalk marks, etc. but not so good for color. There are two basic approaches to painting freight cars, paint for a new car paint job and weather according to age after painting and car usage, or paint to resemble faded oxidized paint and weather from there. Obviously the first approach requires more fading and weathering effort for an old paint heavily used look. I use the first approach, paint as new, and do the fading and weather later, or not for some cars.

 

As for freight car reds and browns, by far the most accurate paints are from Tru Color because they went to great effort to hire color consultants with access to prototype railroad color drift cards, and they matched their colors to the prototype as closely as possible. If you want the new paint look use Tru Color. If you want faded oxidized paint, it really doesn’t matter that color use as long as you’re in the right red or brown family.

 

Then there is the topcoat issue. Prototype freight cars aren’t dead flat when newly painted, despite the fact that model railroad tradition demands a flat finish, typically Dullcote. Lately, it’s not uncommon to see various degrees of paint shine from fairly glossy to satin and flat, again depending upon the car age since last painting. Tru Color dries glossy, which means you don’t have to spray a gloss coat before decaling – one less step than using a flat freight car color. I use semi-gloss, satin, and flat clear coats to provide another indication of age since painting.

 

Be aware that some acrylic clear coats cloud paint color, whereas lacquers typically don’t cloud the color. Future is an exception to the acrylic clouding issue.

 

Then there’s the issue of color temperature of layout lighting, which has been exhaustively discussed here, so look at the archives. Your freight car reds and browns will look quite different under warm lighting than under cool lighting. I use 5000 K lights with a high CRI index for true color rendition.

 

Color rendition of film has already been discussed. Time of day and sun angle were not mentioned, but they affect color, as does atmospheric haze, etc., etc.

 

So selecting paint colors by matching color photographs is a gross oversimplification, especially with color photographs from the 1940s and 1950s.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 2:06 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

 

Fair enough.  But I like to start with a photo and go from there.  One of my challenges is that 1950’s paint isn’t a great reference for my 1946 model era.  And my other challenge is that I wasn’t born yet, and have no memories from that time - so need to start somewhere. 

 

I found one image so far this morning: https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsac.1a34690/.   There, in the middle distance, behind the concrete block building, is a CB&Q single sheathed car.  I find the comparison with what is shown on other cars in this yard view helpful modelling information.  

 

Rob

On Oct 22, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote:

 

Rob,

 

I know nothing about those cars, but do know a little about photography. So I pass along that the color palette of WWII era Kodachrome, which was the slide film stock used back then, had a very warm tone, towards the red end of the spectrum. The images are beautiful, but if looking for color "accuracy", just be aware.

 

Then there is the "color" that your monitor "sees". Whole 'nother issue.

 

Bill

 

 




Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

Robert kirkham
 

Here’s another photo from the Library of Congress Farm/War Admin collections:


Rob


On Oct 22, 2020, at 12:06 PM, Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Fair enough.  But I like to start with a photo and go from there.  One of my challenges is that 1950’s paint isn’t a great reference for my 1946 model era.  And my other challenge is that I wasn’t born yet, and have no memories from that time - so need to start somewhere. 

I found one image so far this morning: https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsac.1a34690/.   There, in the middle distance, behind the concrete block building, is a CB&Q single sheathed car.  I find the comparison with what is shown on other cars in this yard view helpful modelling information.  

Rob
On Oct 22, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote:

Rob,

I know nothing about those cars, but do know a little about photography. So I pass along that the color palette of WWII era Kodachrome, which was the slide film stock used back then, had a very warm tone, towards the red end of the spectrum. The images are beautiful, but if looking for color "accuracy", just be aware.

Then there is the "color" that your monitor "sees". Whole 'nother issue.

Bill




Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

Nelson Moyer
 

Photos are good for weathering, chalk marks, etc. but not so good for color. There are two basic approaches to painting freight cars, paint for a new car paint job and weather according to age after painting and car usage, or paint to resemble faded oxidized paint and weather from there. Obviously the first approach requires more fading and weathering effort for an old paint heavily used look. I use the first approach, paint as new, and do the fading and weather later, or not for some cars.

 

As for freight car reds and browns, by far the most accurate paints are from Tru Color because they went to great effort to hire color consultants with access to prototype railroad color drift cards, and they matched their colors to the prototype as closely as possible. If you want the new paint look use Tru Color. If you want faded oxidized paint, it really doesn’t matter that color use as long as you’re in the right red or brown family.

 

Then there is the topcoat issue. Prototype freight cars aren’t dead flat when newly painted, despite the fact that model railroad tradition demands a flat finish, typically Dullcote. Lately, it’s not uncommon to see various degrees of paint shine from fairly glossy to satin and flat, again depending upon the car age since last painting. Tru Color dries glossy, which means you don’t have to spray a gloss coat before decaling – one less step than using a flat freight car color. I use semi-gloss, satin, and flat clear coats to provide another indication of age since painting.

 

Be aware that some acrylic clear coats cloud paint color, whereas lacquers typically don’t cloud the color. Future is an exception to the acrylic clouding issue.

 

Then there’s the issue of color temperature of layout lighting, which has been exhaustively discussed here, so look at the archives. Your freight car reds and browns will look quite different under warm lighting than under cool lighting. I use 5000 K lights with a high CRI index for true color rendition.

 

Color rendition of film has already been discussed. Time of day and sun angle were not mentioned, but they affect color, as does atmospheric haze, etc., etc.

 

So selecting paint colors by matching color photographs is a gross oversimplification, especially with color photographs from the 1940s and 1950s.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 2:06 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

 

Fair enough.  But I like to start with a photo and go from there.  One of my challenges is that 1950’s paint isn’t a great reference for my 1946 model era.  And my other challenge is that I wasn’t born yet, and have no memories from that time - so need to start somewhere. 

 

I found one image so far this morning: https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsac.1a34690/.   There, in the middle distance, behind the concrete block building, is a CB&Q single sheathed car.  I find the comparison with what is shown on other cars in this yard view helpful modelling information.  

 

Rob

On Oct 22, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote:

 

Rob,

 

I know nothing about those cars, but do know a little about photography. So I pass along that the color palette of WWII era Kodachrome, which was the slide film stock used back then, had a very warm tone, towards the red end of the spectrum. The images are beautiful, but if looking for color "accuracy", just be aware.

 

Then there is the "color" that your monitor "sees". Whole 'nother issue.

 

Bill

 

 


Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

Robert kirkham
 

Fair enough.  But I like to start with a photo and go from there.  One of my challenges is that 1950’s paint isn’t a great reference for my 1946 model era.  And my other challenge is that I wasn’t born yet, and have no memories from that time - so need to start somewhere. 

I found one image so far this morning: https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsac.1a34690/.   There, in the middle distance, behind the concrete block building, is a CB&Q single sheathed car.  I find the comparison with what is shown on other cars in this yard view helpful modelling information.  

Rob

On Oct 22, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote:

Rob,

I know nothing about those cars, but do know a little about photography. So I pass along that the color palette of WWII era Kodachrome, which was the slide film stock used back then, had a very warm tone, towards the red end of the spectrum. The images are beautiful, but if looking for color "accuracy", just be aware.

Then there is the "color" that your monitor "sees". Whole 'nother issue.

Bill



Re: Photo: Wabash Gondola 2963 (Undated)

mel perry
 

wasn't plans for this car, featured in MR
back.in the 60'
mel perry

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 11:21 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Wabash Gondola 2963 (Undated)

Photo from the State Historical Society Of Missouri:

https://cdm17228.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/imc/id/42531/rec/7

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

Bill McClure
 

Rob,

I know nothing about those cars, but do know a little about photography. So I pass along that the color palette of WWII era Kodachrome, which was the slide film stock used back then, had a very warm tone, towards the red end of the spectrum. The images are beautiful, but if looking for color "accuracy", just be aware.

Then there is the "color" that your monitor "sees". Whole 'nother issue.

Bill


Re: Photo: Pacific Electric Boxcar 10069 (1947)

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Pacific Electric Boxcar 10069 (1947)
Photo from the Los Angeles Public Library:
Use the slider to enlarge the photo.

  I love the trucks you can see in the photo!

Tony Thompson




Photo: Wabash Gondola 2963 (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Wabash Gondola 2963 (Undated)

Photo from the State Historical Society Of Missouri:

https://cdm17228.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/imc/id/42531/rec/7

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Pacific Electric Boxcar 10069 (1947)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Pacific Electric Boxcar 10069 (1947)

Photo from the Los Angeles Public Library:

https://tessa.lapl.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/photos/id/28746/rec/40

Use the slider to enlarge the photo.

Description: "Photograph shows one of 31 freight cars being decorated at PE's West Hollywood shops by the motion picture studios for tonight's festivities in Hollywood celebrating the beginning of the National Friendship Train's progress across the U.S. with food for Europe. Photograph dated November 7, 1947."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Rob;

 

As I recall, there are those great Delano photos, as well as others, taken in Chicago during WW2 that include some CB&Q cars.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

 

Hi there,

I'm looking for some WWII era colour images of CB&Q wood boxcars as a basis for painting and weathering a model.  I intend to go through the Farm Administration Library of Congress collection, but thought I'd ask if anyone has already done that?

Rob Kirkham   


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Eric;

 

Yes, and converted back to GS thereafter, sloped drop doors being removed 1929-’45-ish.  The two photos of coke racks on GSD we put in the book are instructive.

 

Yes, I have, but do not have those materials at-hand.  It also corresponds to the rebuilding of H22 into H21A, as need for other “coke” cars also shifted to the in-plant RRs that replaced the beehives and banked coke works.  Remaining coke cars on the PRR, at least, were just using under-loaded H21’s (or whatever class), or those one-off coke box cars that remained (including GTC26 and GTC29, IIRC).   Believe it or not, a handful of the latter ran into the sixties.   There were no other dedicated coke cars I can find on the PRR.

 

Someone I know is doing research on the other cars owned by Frick, et al., that ended up being sold to the PRR as a result of this consolidation to big coke plants like Clairton.  I don’t know when that will be available.

 

The things interesting in the H22 photo are not only the banks of ovens behind, but the “flaked” coke typical of those ovens, in the H22.  Something to consider in modeling.

 

Finally, here is an excerpt from my analysis of industries on the Monongahela Division/Branch, for 1918, 1939, 1945, 1962.  Note the precipitous drop between 1918 and 1939, in coke manufacture and loading (from 11 goes to 2).  And this is ONLY from industry on the Mon, not the Southwest Branch, MRY, or other feeding or adjacent lines.

 

Business Traffic by Commodity/Industry - 1962

Commodity/

Industry

1918

1939

1945

1962

Auto/Truck Delivery

1

 

 

 

Boiler Tubes

1

 

 

 

Boxes

 

2

2

2

Brewing/Distilling

12

5

5

1

Brick (Standard, not refractories)

2

1

1

 

Cement

 

1

1

1

Chemical/Coke By-Products

1

3

4

4

Coal (Mining)

48

32

39

16

Coal (Retail)

1

2

2

 

Coke

 

4

1

1

 

Coal AND Coke

 

7

1

 

 

Concrete Block

 

 

 

1

Construction

 

 

2

 

Cooperage (Barrels)

1

1

1

 

 

Here’s also a couple more to whet your appetite, attached.  The postcard of box cars at the coke works, 1910:  Can you imagine how many cars they torched using un-quenched coke?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

As noted in the Pennsy gondola book, the GSD cars were out of coke service by 1931.

 

Several years ago when I was researching the coal fields of north-central West Virginia I stumbled across an interesting nugget. Coke oven operations shut down along the Western Maryland near Belington and in Thomas, WV. Only one remained in Harding, WV, but it would close in 1927 or 28. Coke production had shifted from beehive ovens to the by-product plants and affected these operations far from the mills.

 

Have you found similar shutdowns in the Connellsville Coal & Coke District that would affect the numbers of cars needed to transport coke?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 10:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Eric;

 

Spot on.

 

I was unable to find the correspondence on the GS cars that went into coke service, but it is clear they did so.  They were such early cars, they may have pre-dated the H22 sufficiently that it was OBE.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Elden,

 

Some customers may not have needed the cubic capacity that an H22 could deliver.

 

IIRC from a certain published source, GSD gondolas had some modifications for coke, too.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 9:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Thanks for sharing that, Bill!  Very similar to PRR coke cars of that era.

 

It appears that most (if not all) coke cars of this type did have the original doors removed as here:

 

BlockedBlockedhttps://digital.hagley.org/PRR_13040?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=ffb3ba399698fd3b3998&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=0&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=2

 

…and that it was then a simple matter of installing the “doors” board-by-board, after which you climbed the ladder, filled the car up, took it to the customer, and bashed the boards out (in) to empty.

 

I would still like to find the correspondence as to why they didn’t use a dedicated coke hopper like attached H22.  It might have been lack of facility to center dump.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of william darnaby
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 10:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Here is a screen shot I snagged off a Herron Rail video of an empty Monon coke car headed back to Indy on an NYC freight out of Bellefontaine, OH in 1955.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 8:20 PM
To:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

The MONON hauled coke from the Indianapolis Gas and Coke utility to destinations all over the midwest.  In our era composite stone gons had boxcar bodies  dropped onto them.  Roofs were removed for top loading.  Door openings were boarded up for loading, boards removed as load was removed.

 

The composite boxcar bodies had boards removed and were often thought to be stock cars. 

 

As mentioned before, inadequate quenching of the coke combined with air entering the cars as they were hauled in freight trains resulted in fires.  On the Monon this usually occurred between Indianapolis and Monon on train 90 which ran in the evenings.  

 

Train crews were good at setting out coke cars that had burst into flames.  Local fire departments extinguished the flames, but typically most of the wood was lost.

 

Mont Switzer 

 

 

 

 


Re: PE Boxcar 2417 (Not 10067)

Bob Chaparro
 

My error. Here is PE 2417.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

Eric Hansmann
 

As noted in the Pennsy gondola book, the GSD cars were out of coke service by 1931.

 

Several years ago when I was researching the coal fields of north-central West Virginia I stumbled across an interesting nugget. Coke oven operations shut down along the Western Maryland near Belington and in Thomas, WV. Only one remained in Harding, WV, but it would close in 1927 or 28. Coke production had shifted from beehive ovens to the by-product plants and affected these operations far from the mills.

 

Have you found similar shutdowns in the Connellsville Coal & Coke District that would affect the numbers of cars needed to transport coke?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 10:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Eric;

 

Spot on.

 

I was unable to find the correspondence on the GS cars that went into coke service, but it is clear they did so.  They were such early cars, they may have pre-dated the H22 sufficiently that it was OBE.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Elden,

 

Some customers may not have needed the cubic capacity that an H22 could deliver.

 

IIRC from a certain published source, GSD gondolas had some modifications for coke, too.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 9:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Thanks for sharing that, Bill!  Very similar to PRR coke cars of that era.

 

It appears that most (if not all) coke cars of this type did have the original doors removed as here:

 

Blockedhttps://digital.hagley.org/PRR_13040?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=ffb3ba399698fd3b3998&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=0&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=2

 

…and that it was then a simple matter of installing the “doors” board-by-board, after which you climbed the ladder, filled the car up, took it to the customer, and bashed the boards out (in) to empty.

 

I would still like to find the correspondence as to why they didn’t use a dedicated coke hopper like attached H22.  It might have been lack of facility to center dump.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of william darnaby
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 10:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Here is a screen shot I snagged off a Herron Rail video of an empty Monon coke car headed back to Indy on an NYC freight out of Bellefontaine, OH in 1955.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 8:20 PM
To:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

The MONON hauled coke from the Indianapolis Gas and Coke utility to destinations all over the midwest.  In our era composite stone gons had boxcar bodies  dropped onto them.  Roofs were removed for top loading.  Door openings were boarded up for loading, boards removed as load was removed.

 

The composite boxcar bodies had boards removed and were often thought to be stock cars. 

 

As mentioned before, inadequate quenching of the coke combined with air entering the cars as they were hauled in freight trains resulted in fires.  On the Monon this usually occurred between Indianapolis and Monon on train 90 which ran in the evenings.  

 

Train crews were good at setting out coke cars that had burst into flames.  Local fire departments extinguished the flames, but typically most of the wood was lost.

 

Mont Switzer 

 

 

 

 


CB&Q boxcar colour - Delano images?

Robert kirkham
 

Hi there,

I'm looking for some WWII era colour images of CB&Q wood boxcars as a basis for painting and weathering a model.  I intend to go through the Farm Administration Library of Congress collection, but thought I'd ask if anyone has already done that?

Rob Kirkham   


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Eric;

 

Spot on.

 

I was unable to find the correspondence on the GS cars that went into coke service, but it is clear they did so.  They were such early cars, they may have pre-dated the H22 sufficiently that it was OBE.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Elden,

 

Some customers may not have needed the cubic capacity that an H22 could deliver.

 

IIRC from a certain published source, GSD gondolas had some modifications for coke, too.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 9:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Thanks for sharing that, Bill!  Very similar to PRR coke cars of that era.

 

It appears that most (if not all) coke cars of this type did have the original doors removed as here:

 

Blockedhttps://digital.hagley.org/PRR_13040?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=ffb3ba399698fd3b3998&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=0&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=2

 

…and that it was then a simple matter of installing the “doors” board-by-board, after which you climbed the ladder, filled the car up, took it to the customer, and bashed the boards out (in) to empty.

 

I would still like to find the correspondence as to why they didn’t use a dedicated coke hopper like attached H22.  It might have been lack of facility to center dump.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of william darnaby
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 10:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Here is a screen shot I snagged off a Herron Rail video of an empty Monon coke car headed back to Indy on an NYC freight out of Bellefontaine, OH in 1955.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 8:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

The MONON hauled coke from the Indianapolis Gas and Coke utility to destinations all over the midwest.  In our era composite stone gons had boxcar bodies  dropped onto them.  Roofs were removed for top loading.  Door openings were boarded up for loading, boards removed as load was removed.

 

The composite boxcar bodies had boards removed and were often thought to be stock cars. 

 

As mentioned before, inadequate quenching of the coke combined with air entering the cars as they were hauled in freight trains resulted in fires.  On the Monon this usually occurred between Indianapolis and Monon on train 90 which ran in the evenings.  

 

Train crews were good at setting out coke cars that had burst into flames.  Local fire departments extinguished the flames, but typically most of the wood was lost.

 

Mont Switzer 

 

 

 

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

Eric Hansmann
 

Elden,

 

Some customers may not have needed the cubic capacity that an H22 could deliver.

 

IIRC from a certain published source, GSD gondolas had some modifications for coke, too.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 9:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Thanks for sharing that, Bill!  Very similar to PRR coke cars of that era.

 

It appears that most (if not all) coke cars of this type did have the original doors removed as here:

 

https://digital.hagley.org/PRR_13040?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=ffb3ba399698fd3b3998&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=0&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=2

 

…and that it was then a simple matter of installing the “doors” board-by-board, after which you climbed the ladder, filled the car up, took it to the customer, and bashed the boards out (in) to empty.

 

I would still like to find the correspondence as to why they didn’t use a dedicated coke hopper like attached H22.  It might have been lack of facility to center dump.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of william darnaby
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 10:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

Here is a screen shot I snagged off a Herron Rail video of an empty Monon coke car headed back to Indy on an NYC freight out of Bellefontaine, OH in 1955.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 8:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

The MONON hauled coke from the Indianapolis Gas and Coke utility to destinations all over the midwest.  In our era composite stone gons had boxcar bodies  dropped onto them.  Roofs were removed for top loading.  Door openings were boarded up for loading, boards removed as load was removed.

 

The composite boxcar bodies had boards removed and were often thought to be stock cars. 

 

As mentioned before, inadequate quenching of the coke combined with air entering the cars as they were hauled in freight trains resulted in fires.  On the Monon this usually occurred between Indianapolis and Monon on train 90 which ran in the evenings.  

 

Train crews were good at setting out coke cars that had burst into flames.  Local fire departments extinguished the flames, but typically most of the wood was lost.

 

Mont Switzer 

 

 

 

 

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