Date   

Re: ATSF in California

Bob Chaparro
 

Bruce Morden of Carpinteria, CA, commented:

"By 1950 many of the California Sugar Beet facilities had closed. 

Still open in the 1950's:

Alvarado (closed 1968)

Betteravia (1994)

Brawley (still open)

Clarksburg (closed 1993)

Dyer [Santa Ana]  (closed 1979)

Hamilton City (closed 1996)

Manteca (closed 1996)

Mendota (closed 2008)

Oxnard (closed 1958)

Spreckels (closed 1981)

Sugar Field [Woodland] (closed 2000)

Tracy (closed 2000)

All were served exclusively by the Southern Pacific except Clarksburg which was served by the Sacramento Northern/Western Pacific."

Over the years Bruce has been studying sugar beet operations in California. Here is a link to his Southern Pacific's Santa Barbara Subdivision blog:

http://spsbsub.blogspot.com/

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Cotton Belt dbl door rebuilt boxcar

O Fenton Wells
 

Do you have that roof in resin?
Fenton 


On Oct 23, 2020, at 6:20 PM, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:


My late friend Wayne Madison made this roof pattern for the SSW rebuilt box car.

It has a lot of additional material for what I can only figure must have been part of the rebuild process. Ed mentions that the rebuilt cars preceded the roof replacement by a year, or so. So what ever roof preceded the rectangular pattern steel replacement probably was already high in height which required the extensions for the new replacement steel roof.

The roof was also widened, which in hindsight may have been a wrong interpretation. Wayne and I were not certain, but we saw that the ends needed to be wider and that modification ended up making the IMWX steel roof too narrow. The joys of working with limited photos in the pre-good-old-days. The pair of prototypes show small brackets along the edge of the raised portion of the roof. I don't remember this from the time, so maybe not all roofs were treated this way.

When modeling, we often don't know what was going on, but the idea of following what we see in the photos is maybe all which we are going to get.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

  Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Hi Andy
The photo, when enlarged after a capture, is a bit fuzzy (!) but I’m curious about the roofs.  It appears that they wee raised above the top of the original sides.  There’s several ways to do this, but is that fact what I’m seeing?

Schuyler

 

<image001.jpg>

 

<Screen Shot 2020-10-23 at 2.59.13 PM.png>

<Screen Shot 2020-10-23 at 2.59.58 PM.png>


 

 

<Screen Shot 2020-10-23 at 2.59.13 PM.png>
<Screen Shot 2020-10-23 at 2.59.58 PM.png>
<image001.jpg>


Cotton Belt dbl door rebuilt boxcar

Andy Carlson
 

My late friend Wayne Madison made this roof pattern for the SSW rebuilt box car.

It has a lot of additional material for what I can only figure must have been part of the rebuild process. Ed mentions that the rebuilt cars preceded the roof replacement by a year, or so. So what ever roof preceded the rectangular pattern steel replacement probably was already high in height which required the extensions for the new replacement steel roof.

The roof was also widened, which in hindsight may have been a wrong interpretation. Wayne and I were not certain, but we saw that the ends needed to be wider and that modification ended up making the IMWX steel roof too narrow. The joys of working with limited photos in the pre-good-old-days. The pair of prototypes show small brackets along the edge of the raised portion of the roof. I don't remember this from the time, so maybe not all roofs were treated this way.

When modeling, we often don't know what was going on, but the idea of following what we see in the photos is maybe all which we are going to get.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

  Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Hi Andy
The photo, when enlarged after a capture, is a bit fuzzy (!) but I’m curious about the roofs.  It appears that they wee raised above the top of the original sides.  There’s several ways to do this, but is that fact what I’m seeing?

Schuyler

  Inline image

 Inline image

Inline image

 

 


Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

James Brewer
 

Ted's article was in the August 2003 RMC, Essential Freight Cars: 5 Cotton Belt's double-sheathed boxcars.

Jim Brewer


Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

Matt Herson
 

Andy,

Here is a link to another shot showing the brake wheel end of the car.  

To see the full size photo you must join the group but it is free.

www.Railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=116700

Matt Herson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 5:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

 

Hi Andy

 

The photo, when enlarged after a capture, is a bit fuzzy (!) but I’m curious about the roofs.  It appears that they wee raised above the top of the original sides.  There’s several ways to do this, but is that fact what I’m seeing?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 2:38 PM
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

 

Hi folks-

 

Years ago, after discovering one of these Cotton Belt USRA Clone DS double door rebuilds in the Henderson box car book, I made a scale drawing. The cars seem to have been in the 46000 series of  the SSW. I have an HO model I built of this car about 23 years ago which I would like to update. I never knew what power brake brand was used. I used a Ajax back then.

 

The rebuilds besides reusing the original ends (with mods) also reused the fishbelly USRA style of underframe. With a modified rectangular panel roof and noticeable side sill mods, I think this is a fine looking rebuilt car. The pair of pre-war Youngstown doors and riveted sides work well together for coolness.

 

 

Inline image

 

I read , perhaps in the caption, that these cars after rebuilding were used for Blue Bird bus company seats and also for general service.

 

I see from this picture grabbed from Ebay that at least two methods were used in splicing the ends for increased height. My model has the center section with 3 Murphy ribs, as shown on SSW 46029 to the left.

 

Anyhow, hearing from some gifted person on what brake equipment was used is appreciated in advance.

Thanks,

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 


Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

mel perry
 

didn't ted culotta do an article in RMC,
anout SSW extended height boxcars?
mel perry


Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Hi Andy

 

The photo, when enlarged after a capture, is a bit fuzzy (!) but I’m curious about the roofs.  It appears that they wee raised above the top of the original sides.  There’s several ways to do this, but is that fact what I’m seeing?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 2:38 PM
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

 

Hi folks-

 

Years ago, after discovering one of these Cotton Belt USRA Clone DS double door rebuilds in the Henderson box car book, I made a scale drawing. The cars seem to have been in the 46000 series of  the SSW. I have an HO model I built of this car about 23 years ago which I would like to update. I never knew what power brake brand was used. I used a Ajax back then.

 

The rebuilds besides reusing the original ends (with mods) also reused the fishbelly USRA style of underframe. With a modified rectangular panel roof and noticeable side sill mods, I think this is a fine looking rebuilt car. The pair of pre-war Youngstown doors and riveted sides work well together for coolness.

 

 

Inline image

 

I read , perhaps in the caption, that these cars after rebuilding were used for Blue Bird bus company seats and also for general service.

 

I see from this picture grabbed from Ebay that at least two methods were used in splicing the ends for increased height. My model has the center section with 3 Murphy ribs, as shown on SSW 46029 to the left.

 

Anyhow, hearing from some gifted person on what brake equipment was used is appreciated in advance.

Thanks,

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 


Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Ed Pavlovic
 

Illinois Railway Museum has one of the container boxcars in its collection and may possibly have one of the containers as well.

Ed Pavlovic


Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

Ed Hawkins
 



On Oct 23, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

I read , perhaps in the caption, that these cars after rebuilding were used for Blue Bird bus company seats and also for general service. 

I see from this picture grabbed from Ebay that at least two methods were used in splicing the ends for increased height. My model has the center section with 3 Murphy ribs, as shown on SSW 46029 to the left.

Anyhow, hearing from some gifted person on what brake equipment was used is appreciated in advance.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson

Andy,
The SSW diagram for 46000-46199 denotes the following info.

1. Original cars built in 1924-1925 by Mount Vernon Car Manufacturing Co. 
2. Steel sides applied by SSW 1936-1937
3. Roof raised & steel roof applied by SSW 1939
4. Auxiliary doors closed by SSW 1954 (7’-4 1/4” clear opening after aux. doors were fixed)
5. Steel roofs - Murphy (SREM Co.)
6. Steel ends - Union Metal Products Co.
7. Running boards - Apex
8. Side doors - Camel (Youngstown)
9. Hand brakes - AAR approved
10. Trucks - Scullin spring plankless (photo appears to be Andrews with spring planks)
11. Nailable Steel Floor the width of the doorway

The Murphy roof is interesting as the end sheets closest to the ends are depressed - what appears to be several inches lower than the 10 intermediate roof sheets. 

Regarding the hand brakes, all I have to go by is an outstanding in-service photo of SSW 46049, Col. Chet McCoid, 1-15-55, Calexico, California, Bob’s Photo (neg. code FSSW8). This particular car was built 4-24. Stencils do not specify a rebuild date. It’s a fresh repainted car 5-20-54 at the Cotton Belt Pine Bluff car shops. The photo is a 3-4BL view with a Champion hand brake (see photo page 14, RP CYC Volume 10). It’s unknown to me if all 200 cars received the same type of hand brake. 

Regards,
Ed Hawkins










Leider's B&OCT book

Tony Thompson
 

David J. Leider's new book on the B&OCT, mentioned here earlier this month, is a new acquisition of mine, and I've reviewed the book in my blog. If you're interested, a link to this post is below.

https://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2020/10/david-leiders-new-book-on-b.html

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Don Burn
 

From the CERA Bulletin 112 on the TMER&LC this was part of M33-M43 which were Double Truck Express Container Trailers.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 12:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

A photo from the Detroit Public Library:

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A256620

Click and hold to enlarge photo.

Description:

View of the trailer of a Yellow Truck and Coach truck for the T.M.E.R. & L. Co. being loaded into a railroad freight car. Handwritten on back: "Yellow Truck & Coach."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Todd Sullivan
 

Pretty much looks like the box is a container being slide off (or on) the trailer to/from the trolley boxcar.  Interesting! 

Todd Sullivan


Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

Andy Carlson
 

Hi folks-

Years ago, after discovering one of these Cotton Belt USRA Clone DS double door rebuilds in the Henderson box car book, I made a scale drawing. The cars seem to have been in the 46000 series of  the SSW. I have an HO model I built of this car about 23 years ago which I would like to update. I never knew what power brake brand was used. I used a Ajax back then.

The rebuilds besides reusing the original ends (with mods) also reused the fishbelly USRA style of underframe. With a modified rectangular panel roof and noticeable side sill mods, I think this is a fine looking rebuilt car. The pair of pre-war Youngstown doors and riveted sides work well together for coolness.


Inline image

I read , perhaps in the caption, that these cars after rebuilding were used for Blue Bird bus company seats and also for general service.

I see from this picture grabbed from Ebay that at least two methods were used in splicing the ends for increased height. My model has the center section with 3 Murphy ribs, as shown on SSW 46029 to the left.

Anyhow, hearing from some gifted person on what brake equipment was used is appreciated in advance.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Jack Mullen
 

Spot on, except that nobody is calling the railcar a coach.
Yellow Truck and Coach is the builder of the truck. It was an offshoot if the Yellow Cab empire, and though only a minor truck maker, was a major player in the bus market, eventually becoming GM's Truck and Coach Division.

Jack Mullen


Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Bob and List Members,
 
I notice the container is numbered C-40. Does that mean there is a C-1 thru C-39 also?
 
You can see the image at full resolution, without having to walk and chew gum at the same time, by clicking on the link below
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Bob Chaparro asked:
"Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

A photo from the Detroit Public Library:

Click and hold to enlarge photo.

Description:
View of the trailer of a Yellow Truck and Coach truck for the T.M.E.R. & L. Co. being loaded into a railroad freight car. Handwritten on back: 'Yellow Truck & Coach.'"

TMER&L Co. = The Milwaukee Electric Railway & Light Company.

The North Shore (CNS&M) and South Shore (CSS&SB) were early offerors of piggyback service in the 1930s, so TMER&L experiments with intermodal isn't surprising, but this photo does raise more questions on this particular experiment.


Ben Hom


Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro asked:
"Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

A photo from the Detroit Public Library:

Click and hold to enlarge photo.

Description:
View of the trailer of a Yellow Truck and Coach truck for the T.M.E.R. & L. Co. being loaded into a railroad freight car. Handwritten on back: 'Yellow Truck & Coach.'"

TMER&L Co. = The Milwaukee Electric Railway & Light Company.

The North Shore (CNS&M) and South Shore (CSS&SB) were early offerors of piggyback service in the 1930s, so TMER&L experiments with intermodal isn't surprising, but this photo does raise more questions on this particular experiment.


Ben Hom


Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Todd Sullivan
 

TMER&LCo is The Milwaukee Electric Railway & Light Company, a large electric street and interurban railway operation in and around Milwaukee, WI that also hauled freight. I think the  "coach" is actually a 'trolley freight car'.  If you look carefully, you can see a trolley wire above the tracks, and the "coach" has lots of clearance around the trucks to allow them to pivot on sharp curves.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

For starters, google TMER&L, no periods required.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 12:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

 

Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

A photo from the Detroit Public Library:

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A256620

Click and hold to enlarge photo.

Description:

View of the trailer of a Yellow Truck and Coach truck for the T.M.E.R. & L. Co. being loaded into a railroad freight car. Handwritten on back: "Yellow Truck & Coach."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

A photo from the Detroit Public Library:

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A256620

Click and hold to enlarge photo.

Description:

View of the trailer of a Yellow Truck and Coach truck for the T.M.E.R. & L. Co. being loaded into a railroad freight car. Handwritten on back: "Yellow Truck & Coach."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


ATSF in California

Paul Doggett
 

Hi

Does anyone know if the ATSF hauled sugar beets in California in the early 1950s if so whereabouts.

Many thanks
Paul Doggett. England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

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