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Re: ATSF in California
When it comes to stockcars I think the key date is 1906, when the 28 hr law was updated and implemented with enforcement teeth. Prior to that many stockcars were built with various apparatuses in attempts to feed and water livestock while in transit. These included storage boxes on the roof, hatches in the roof for dropping feed and hay, and water troughs in the side walls or built inside the car. White’s Freight Car book covers some of this, and photos of stockcars built prior to 1906, esp those from 1880-1900, show these various apparatuses. The 28 hr Law of 1906 outlawed any feeding or watering while in transit, making the apparatuses useless.
Some railroads, the ATSF being one, did build stockcars with drop bottoms and/or hatches in the roof to allow hauling of other loads besides livestock, even after 1906. Railroads did not like paying for specialty cars that ran empty or sat unused, so they looked for anything that made a car useful for other loads. Anything that could stand exposure to weather could be hauled in a stockcar. But getting the commodity loaded or unloaded was often time consuming, ie cost money. Not many roads built dual purpose stockcars, esp after about 1920. And many of these cars were rebuilt, in the 20s-40s, losing their drop bottoms and roof hatches. In general by the 50s stockcars with roof hatches were quite rare if nonexistent.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Gates via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2020 3:45 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF in California
On Sunday, October 25, 2020, 02:32:57 PM CDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:
Bill,
I can't speak about 19th century cars, but in the early 20th century there were some large blocks of "convertible" cars that could do double-duty, perhaps to make some money on the back hauls. Stock cars were among these cars, sometimes being used for coal or coke, which could be loaded through roof hatches, and emptied through bottom gates. Two different ATSF classes are shown in the 1919 CBD (reprinted as Gregg Train Shed Cyclopedia #36).
Common boxcars were also sometimes built with floor gates. The GN experimented with hopper-bottom boxcars, and a kit was once offered by F&C (not in their catalog last time I looked). Even California's Northern Electric Railway (later Sacramento Northern) had some 36' wooden boxcars with roof hatches and floor gates for grain. Several such cars which survived as farm sheds finally bought the dust in the 1990s: https://www.wplives.org/sn/nebox.html .
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff 🦆
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 3:12 PM Bill Parks via groups.io <BPARKS_43=YAHOO.COM@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: Leider's B&OCT book
Tony Thompson
You’re welcome, David. It’s an impressive book and I’m enjoying it a lot.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Tony Thompson
On Oct 24, 2020, at 6:44 PM, David Leider <sooauthor@...> wrote:
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Re: OIL CAR
I can see two reasons for the car being so marked. Both suppositions, as I did not work on that railroad in that time frame. One, like cars in green hide service, I would think the interior to be grungy with leaks and spills. Not a condition one would want to spread through other cars in more general service. Secondly, many of these products would be flammable to some extent. Kerosene for instance. Good to warn people as to the contents. Especially should it be having a roaring hotbox. Chuck Peck (Some days I wish for a time machine to get better answers.)
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 7:00 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
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Re: OIL CAR
Eric Hansmann
I would guess the photo was taken in the 1900-1910 decade based upon lettering details.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
On Oct 25, 2020, at 5:47 PM, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:
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Re: OIL CAR
mel perry
matthew: that was my thought also, just wondered why they specifically labelled as they did ;-) mel perry
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 3:37 PM Matthew Metoyer <mmetoyer@...> wrote:
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Re: OIL CAR
Matthew Metoyer
This image is pre-1930; note the location of car numbers and railroad name. I doubt crankcase oil (or recycling) was a concern at that time. Matthew Metoyer Santa Maria CA
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 3:27 PM Lloyd Keyser <lloydkeyser@...> wrote:
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Re: OIL CAR
Lloyd Keyser
Also old crankcase oil to be returned to the refinery for reprocessing. Lloyd Keyser
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 2:40 PM Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:
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Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar
Thanks Chuck. I've done some SRR 50 footers as well. The early 50 footers were 10'-0" IH and the SR had 12 ft doors, go figure.
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 6:24 PM Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:
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Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar
Chuck Cover
Fenton,
Fantastic job on the ACL DD boxcar. Love the double rivet lines. I will be looking forward to the article.
Chuck Cover Santa Fe, NM
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Re: ATSF in California
Jim Gates
The Santa Fe Sk-H, I, K, L, N, and P classes were built with Caswell drop bottoms and roof hatches. There were several thousand of them. As Garth says, they were primarily designed to allow hauling coke, but as long as the beets were bigger than the gaps in the slats, they were perfectly suited for this service. These are not the same as the feeding roof hatches on earlier cars. Jim Gates
On Sunday, October 25, 2020, 02:32:57 PM CDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote: Bill, I can't speak about 19th century cars, but in the early 20th century there were some large blocks of "convertible" cars that could do double-duty, perhaps to make some money on the back hauls. Stock cars were among these cars, sometimes being used for coal or coke, which could be loaded through roof hatches, and emptied through bottom gates. Two different ATSF classes are shown in the 1919 CBD (reprinted as Gregg Train Shed Cyclopedia #36). Common boxcars were also sometimes built with floor gates. The GN experimented with hopper-bottom boxcars, and a kit was once offered by F&C (not in their catalog last time I looked). Even California's Northern Electric Railway (later Sacramento Northern) had some 36' wooden boxcars with roof hatches and floor gates for grain. Several such cars which survived as farm sheds finally bought the dust in the 1990s: https://www.wplives.org/sn/nebox.html . Yours Aye, Garth Groff 🦆 Prior to reading this thread and looking at the pictures, I was unaware that stock cars had hatches on their roofs. Other than for loading bulk commodities like shown here, what were these hatches used for? Also, was it common for stock cars to have these later on, or were they a feature of just earlier stock cars?
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Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar
Richard Townsend
The Shake 'n' Take group has done this a number of times. Check their archives. Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Sent: Sun, Oct 25, 2020 12:08 pm Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar With my peculiar attachment to DD 40 foot auto/box cars, this would be an interesting project. I have just received the Yarmouth D&RGW 40 foot DD box car and it is now in the TBB queue.
I found EFC #5 in my archives of RMC articles clipped from the magazine when I dumped many old MR and RMC's a few years back. It only covers the wood sided cars. Another interesting project. There is an interesting insert in the article on modeling AB brakes that I need to review. Are there any articles dealing with the upgrading to DD steel sided 40 foot cars and how to model them. A weird thought that the much maligned Tichy steel rebuilt box car body might be a start with the rebuilt underframe. The ends look challenging. I have one in the TBB queue waiting for Ted's P&LE decals to be reissued. I may issue diversion orders to change it to an SSW rebuild project. -- Ken Adams Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io
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Re: OIL CAR
The X in front of the number would seem to indicate a company service car. As such, it likely carried kerosene for lanterns, engine lubricants of various sorts, journal oil, and other such supplies in drums or cases of grease. Chuck Peck
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 3:06 PM mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:
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Re: ATSF in California
Bill Parks
Bruce & Garth -
Thanks for the info. This is a car type I don't know a lot about (hauling livestock was not a priority on the Seaboard - they had less than 50 stock cars in the early 50s). Glad to learn something new today. -- Bill Parks Cumming, GA Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida
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Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar
Ken, It's not that difficult to make your own steel sides with Evergreen sheet styrene, especially now with Archer rivets. This one was interesting as it has two rows of rivets per panel. I've done it several times, the most recent is the ACL O-24 I finished a few weeks ago. I've been asked to do an article on this for SAL/ACL modeler. This car started out it's life as a P2K 50 SD boxcar at 10'-6"IH but now it is an ACL car with a 10'-1"IH. Fenton
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 3:21 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
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Re: ATSF in California
Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Bill, I can't speak about 19th century cars, but in the early 20th century there were some large blocks of "convertible" cars that could do double-duty, perhaps to make some money on the back hauls. Stock cars were among these cars, sometimes being used for coal or coke, which could be loaded through roof hatches, and emptied through bottom gates. Two different ATSF classes are shown in the 1919 CBD (reprinted as Gregg Train Shed Cyclopedia #36). Common boxcars were also sometimes built with floor gates. The GN experimented with hopper-bottom boxcars, and a kit was once offered by F&C (not in their catalog last time I looked). Even California's Northern Electric Railway (later Sacramento Northern) had some 36' wooden boxcars with roof hatches and floor gates for grain. Several such cars which survived as farm sheds finally bought the dust in the 1990s: https://www.wplives.org/sn/nebox.html . Yours Aye, Garth Groff 🦆
Prior to reading this thread and looking at the pictures, I was unaware that stock cars had hatches on their roofs. Other than for loading bulk commodities like shown here, what were these hatches used for? Also, was it common for stock cars to have these later on, or were they a feature of just earlier stock cars?
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Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar
Benjamin Hom
Ken Adams asked: "Are there any articles dealing with the upgrading to DD steel sided 40 foot cars and how to model them?"The 2019 Cocoa Beach Shake 'N Take project detailed the Intermountain 40 ft automobile boxcar to match SOU 272500-272999. "...much maligned Tichy steel rebuilt box car body..." Why is it much maligned? Ben Hom
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Re: ATSF in California
Bill,
It's mostly an early thing, and allowed the stock to be fed and watered from the roof. It mostly went away when the stock transportation rules began to require resting stock after so many hours, so they were no longer fed on the cars, but rather at the rest
stops.
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Parks via groups.io <BPARKS_43@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2020 2:12 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF in California Prior to reading this thread and looking at the pictures, I was unaware that stock cars had hatches on their roofs. Other than for loading bulk commodities like shown here, what were these hatches used for? Also, was it common for stock cars to have
these later on, or were they a feature of just earlier stock cars?
Thanks -- Bill Parks Cumming, GA Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida
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Re: ATSF in California
Bill Parks
Prior to reading this thread and looking at the pictures, I was unaware that stock cars had hatches on their roofs. Other than for loading bulk commodities like shown here, what were these hatches used for? Also, was it common for stock cars to have these later on, or were they a feature of just earlier stock cars?
Thanks -- Bill Parks Cumming, GA Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida
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Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar
With my peculiar attachment to DD 40 foot auto/box cars, this would be an interesting project. I have just received the Yarmouth D&RGW 40 foot DD box car and it is now in the TBB queue.
I found EFC #5 in my archives of RMC articles clipped from the magazine when I dumped many old MR and RMC's a few years back. It only covers the wood sided cars. Another interesting project. There is an interesting insert in the article on modeling AB brakes that I need to review. Are there any articles dealing with the upgrading to DD steel sided 40 foot cars and how to model them. A weird thought that the much maligned Tichy steel rebuilt box car body might be a start with the rebuilt underframe. The ends look challenging. I have one in the TBB queue waiting for Ted's P&LE decals to be reissued. I may issue diversion orders to change it to an SSW rebuild project. -- Ken Adams Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io
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OIL CAR
mel perry
can anyone identify what an oil car was? and why a separate classification? thanks mel perry
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