Date   

Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Armand Premo
 

The Rutland frequently carried Hay.in their stock cars. Armand Premo

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 12:59 PM james murrie via groups.io <bi291=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
In the early 1970s I remember seeing NP stock cars near Grand Forks, ND with plywood installed inside the slats to haul wheat. Once a car is steam cleaned, etc. after a livestock load it didn't seem to be an issue.
Jim Murrie


Re: RGM

Lloyd Keyser
 

There were some people that tried to purchase Sunshine but Trisha would not sell and as far as I know she still has everything. LK

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:02 AM Tom Madden via groups.io <pullmanboss=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 09:25 AM, radiodial868 wrote:
Just noticed that Eric posted on his FB page that a buyer has been found for Rio Grande Models, and the transfer to new owner has begun. This is good news for Steam Era Modelers as many of the kits make ideal flat car loads.  RGM, PSC, SSLtd, NWSL, Sergent, JL Innovative, the list goes on of small RR companies doing the right thing and preserving their products and Legacy.
Why the !$#$@$% couldn't Sunshine have done the same $!##@! thing????   
(Rant over, thank you for humoring me)
I know your comment is rhetorical, but Martin, unlike Al and Eric, wasn't given the gift of time. Tricia tried to carry on the business, and she contacted several of us about doing the casting, but as far as I know she wasn't looking to sell.With resin casting the only unique asset would be the patterns, and even those deteriorate. Frank Hodina's Resin Car Works line has included several models previously done by Sunshine (from Frank's patterns), but all those patterns had to be recreated or highly modified to bring them up to current standards. And "current standards" means one piece bodies, which Martin never did.

Tom Madden

Tom Madden


Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

james murrie
 

In the early 1970s I remember seeing NP stock cars near Grand Forks, ND with plywood installed inside the slats to haul wheat. Once a car is steam cleaned, etc. after a livestock load it didn't seem to be an issue.
Jim Murrie


Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Jerry Michels
 

Wouldn't stock cars used for sugar beets and cabbage be cleaned out beforehand?  They were cleaned out after a cattle shipment.  Regarding sugar beets.  They are refined to such an extent that no contamination would remain.  It is a pretty neat process I saw at the Holly Sugar plant in Hereford, TX, before it closed.  Dirty beets go in, pure white sugar comes out.  Jerry Michels


Re: OIL CAR

CJ Riley
 


A quick Google search led me to a site that stated oil recycling began in the 30s and grew substantially during WWII. Oil doesn’t wear out. It gets dirty and loses some of its components. Used oil can be filtered and additives replaced.



Re: RGM

Tom Madden
 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 09:25 AM, radiodial868 wrote:
Just noticed that Eric posted on his FB page that a buyer has been found for Rio Grande Models, and the transfer to new owner has begun. This is good news for Steam Era Modelers as many of the kits make ideal flat car loads.  RGM, PSC, SSLtd, NWSL, Sergent, JL Innovative, the list goes on of small RR companies doing the right thing and preserving their products and Legacy.
Why the !$#$@$% couldn't Sunshine have done the same $!##@! thing????   
(Rant over, thank you for humoring me)
I know your comment is rhetorical, but Martin, unlike Al and Eric, wasn't given the gift of time. Tricia tried to carry on the business, and she contacted several of us about doing the casting, but as far as I know she wasn't looking to sell.With resin casting the only unique asset would be the patterns, and even those deteriorate. Frank Hodina's Resin Car Works line has included several models previously done by Sunshine (from Frank's patterns), but all those patterns had to be recreated or highly modified to bring them up to current standards. And "current standards" means one piece bodies, which Martin never did.

Tom Madden

Tom Madden


Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 08:08 AM, mel perry wrote:
assuming by the side door, these cars
could only hold one container? what
was the space in the front of the car
used for? lcl? express? or in fact
could these cars handle two containers?
The car is just one long tube, which originally had tracks to guide the containers and a winch to pull them off the truck chassis. I suspect the side doors were to keep an eye on the progress of the containers as they were pulled into the car. The car is 51' long and the containers are short little things; I suspect that three, and even possibly four would fit. I'm not sure that all the mechanical apparatus is still intact, with the court ordered break-up of TMER&LCo in 1938, the car went to the newly formed Wisconsin Electric Power Co. that took over the power generation side of the business, for use as a work car on their coal hauling railroad on Milwaukee's south side.

Here are some photos of the car as it is now, and one of the containers: https://www.irm.org/gallery/TMERLM37

Dennis Storzek
 


Re: RGM

erieblt2
 

Great news! How do you all get this info? Happily, Bill S


On Oct 26, 2020, at 8:29 AM, radiodial868 <radiodial57@...> wrote:

Just noticed that Eric posted on his FB page that a buyer has been found for Rio Grande Models, and the transfer to new owner has begun. This is good news for Steam Era Modelers as many of the kits make ideal flat car loads.  RGM, PSC, SSLtd, NWSL, Sergent, JL Innovative, the list goes on of small RR companies doing the right thing and preserving their products and Legacy.
Why the !$#$@$% couldn't Sunshine have done the same $!##@! thing????   
(Rant over, thank you for humoring me)
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


RGM

radiodial868
 

Just noticed that Eric posted on his FB page that a buyer has been found for Rio Grande Models, and the transfer to new owner has begun. This is good news for Steam Era Modelers as many of the kits make ideal flat car loads.  RGM, PSC, SSLtd, NWSL, Sergent, JL Innovative, the list goes on of small RR companies doing the right thing and preserving their products and Legacy.
Why the !$#$@$% couldn't Sunshine have done the same $!##@! thing????   
(Rant over, thank you for humoring me)
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

mel perry
 

assuming by the side door, these cars
could only hold one container? what
was the space in the front of the car
used for? lcl? express? or in fact
could these cars handle two containers?
mel perry


On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 7:38 AM prr6380 via groups.io <prr6380=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
One of these cars along with one container is at the Illinois Railway Museum.  The car was repainted in the last couple of years.

Walt Stafa


Re: GN box cars - hopper bottom

radiodial868
 

F&C makes the GN 8000 series of DS 40' Boxcars with hopper bottoms.  I built the kit, but chose to do it as the later non-hopper rebuild.  The kit comes with a bazillion little parts that would be used to mock up the hopper doors and linkages on the underside, including different queenposts. I've used those unused parts on numerous projects since by slicing and dicing them for things like brackets, clevis, door stops, etc.  The kit just keeps on giving.  I chose the non-hopper version after research with this group many years ago that by my era they were pretty much hanging around the home rails for use only during the grain rush.
http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/3701.html
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

prr6380
 

One of these cars along with one container is at the Illinois Railway Museum.  The car was repainted in the last couple of years.

Walt Stafa


Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Bruce Smith
 

Ray, I'm curious to know what you think was applied to those food crops, to help them grow, in that era? It was probably the same thing you would find inside those stock cars!
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Alabama


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Hutchison <rayhutchison2@...>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 8:47:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars
 
The idea of shipping food products (cabbages, sugar beets in recent postings to the list) in cattle cars is slightly....  disgusting.  

But it does give me a reason to have a group of stock cars in my layout.  With special note board reading "for sugar beets only"

rh


Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Ray Hutchison
 

The idea of shipping food products (cabbages, sugar beets in recent postings to the list) in cattle cars is slightly....  disgusting.  

But it does give me a reason to have a group of stock cars in my layout.  With special note board reading "for sugar beets only"

rh


GN box cars - hopper bottom

Ray Hutchison
 

If I remember correctly from ICC report, a majority of the GN box cars (before 1920) were hopper bottom.

Have been looking for "conversion kit" to detail this on the various models of double-sheathed cars.

rh


Re: Identity Of This Car? (Undated)

Ray Hutchison
 

So is this an example of the first container freight car?

(asking that, knowing that it is not, but curious about more general history of container freight)

ray hutchison


Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

O Fenton Wells
 

Thank Paul 


On Oct 26, 2020, at 6:05 AM, Paul Doggett via groups.io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:

Fenton 

Two really great looking cars great work.

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 25 Oct 2020, at 22:27, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


Thanks Chuck.  I've done some SRR 50 footers as well.  The early 50 footers were 10'-0" IH and the SR had 12 ft doors, go figure.

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 6:24 PM Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:

Fenton,

 

Fantastic job on the ACL DD boxcar.  Love the double rivet lines.  I will be looking forward to the article.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
<SRR #40148.JPG>


Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

Paul Doggett
 

Fenton 

Two really great looking cars great work.

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 25 Oct 2020, at 22:27, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


Thanks Chuck.  I've done some SRR 50 footers as well.  The early 50 footers were 10'-0" IH and the SR had 12 ft doors, go figure.

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 6:24 PM Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:

Fenton,

 

Fantastic job on the ACL DD boxcar.  Love the double rivet lines.  I will be looking forward to the article.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
<SRR #40148.JPG>


Re: ATSF in California

Guy Wilber
 

Doug Harding wrote:

“The 28 hr Law of 1906 outlawed any feeding or watering while in transit, making the apparatuses useless.”

From Section 3 of “The 28 Hour Law” in reference to unloading, feeding and rest within Sections 1 and 2:

“...Provided, That when animals are carried in cars, boats or other vessels in which they can and do have proper food, water, space and opportunity to rest the provisions in regard to their being unloaded shall not apply.”

There is no provision within the Act specifically “outlawing” feeding and watering stock while in transit. 

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: ATSF in California

Douglas Harding
 

When it comes to stockcars I think the key date is 1906, when the 28 hr law was updated and implemented with enforcement teeth. Prior to that many stockcars were built with various apparatuses in attempts to feed and water livestock while in transit. These included storage boxes on the roof, hatches in the roof for dropping feed and hay, and water troughs in the side walls or built inside the car. White’s Freight Car book covers some of this, and photos of stockcars built prior to 1906, esp those from 1880-1900, show these various apparatuses. The 28 hr Law of 1906 outlawed any feeding or watering while in transit, making the apparatuses useless.

 

Some railroads, the ATSF being one, did build stockcars with drop bottoms and/or hatches in the roof to allow hauling of other loads besides livestock, even after 1906. Railroads did not like paying for specialty cars that ran empty or sat unused, so they looked for anything that made a car useful for other loads. Anything that could stand exposure to weather could be hauled in a stockcar. But getting the commodity loaded or unloaded was often time consuming, ie cost money. Not many roads built dual purpose stockcars, esp after about 1920. And many of these cars were rebuilt, in the 20s-40s, losing their drop bottoms and roof hatches. In general by the 50s stockcars with roof hatches were quite rare if nonexistent.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Gates via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2020 3:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF in California

 


The Santa Fe Sk-H, I, K, L, N, and P classes were built with Caswell drop bottoms and roof hatches. There were several thousand of them. As Garth says, they were primarily designed to allow hauling coke, but as long as the beets were bigger than the gaps in the slats, they were perfectly suited for this service. These are not the same as the feeding roof hatches on earlier cars.

Jim Gates

On Sunday, October 25, 2020, 02:32:57 PM CDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:

 

 

Bill,

 

I can't speak about 19th century cars, but in the early 20th century there were some large blocks of "convertible" cars that could do double-duty, perhaps to make some money on the back hauls. Stock cars were among these cars, sometimes being used for coal or coke, which could be loaded through roof hatches, and emptied through bottom gates. Two different ATSF classes are shown in the 1919 CBD (reprinted as Gregg Train Shed Cyclopedia #36).

 

Common boxcars were also sometimes built with floor gates. The GN experimented with hopper-bottom boxcars, and a kit was once offered by F&C (not in their catalog last time I looked). Even California's Northern Electric Railway (later Sacramento Northern) had some 36' wooden boxcars with roof hatches and floor gates for grain. Several such cars which survived as farm sheds finally bought the dust in the 1990s: https://www.wplives.org/sn/nebox.html .

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 3:12 PM Bill Parks via groups.io <BPARKS_43=YAHOO.COM@groups.io> wrote:

Prior to reading this thread and looking at the pictures, I was unaware that stock cars had hatches on their roofs.  Other than for loading bulk commodities like shown here, what were these hatches used for?  Also, was it common for stock cars to have these later on, or were they a feature of just earlier stock cars?

Thanks

--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida

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