Date   

Re: RGM

Tim O'Connor
 


Most people simply don't understand the technology.

If you USE the internet for anything at all, there are hundreds of entities out there gathering information about you.
Sometimes (like China's ability to track nearly EVERYONE through their phones) it can be employed to help protect
everyone - but mostly that's not its real purpose.

The anti-trust action against Google (and perhaps Amazon and Facebook and Apple and others) is largely based
on their domination
(and syndication) of the market of all kinds of infrastructure as well as price fixing and other actions.
Many people think Amazon is a giant retailer but the truth is that they make vastly more PROFIT from internet services
(mostly to other businesses) than from any other business.

Some good protections - (1) avoid "smart phone" use [flip phones are safer] (2) surf ANONYMOUSLY - which means
(2a) use "incognito" or other modes that hide your identity and (2b) use a VPN - virtual private network - service. This
service encrypts EVERYTHING you do so that neither your ISP nor anyone else can see which web sites you visit --
the web sites themselves cannot tell who you are unless you LOG IN and tell them. Your VPN service can tell, but that
just means you should get a trustworthy VPN service. They do exist.

Yeah, Facebook knows I like trains (especially FREIGHT CARS), knows I'm a Democrat, and knows who my friends are.
Whoop de doo. Good luck getting any money from me from any of that. (Money is the primary purpose I alluded to above.)
They're welcome to sell the information to others since it won't do the buyers any good either.

Many people create fake name profiles using private (but not your personal) email accounts. Then the "trackers" can
only follow that fake person - who as long as you take the other precautions above, will not resemble the real you. I
have never gone this far - although I have yahoo & gmail & comcast profiles - but the idea has appeal. :-)




On 10/27/2020 1:19 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

Complete agreement!

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Thomas Evans via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 9:42 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] RGM

 

IMHO facebook is still as evil as ever!
Their sole purpose is harvesting your personal information to sell at a profit to whoever wants it with no known social responsibility.
If you're OK with that, go for it, but, as for me, I'd rather do without the information.
Luckily, you can still get into most facebook sites without being a member & harvest what you need,
but I understand that still opens you up to some extent to their data harvesting operations. (I'm not sure exactly how?)

Tom E.


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: RGM

O Fenton Wells
 

Tony, I agree but it's the only way to keep up with the grandkids.  I hate the arrogance of the leadership of the company however,
Fenton

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 2:27 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
     I'm personally not enamored with FB, but more importantly, my wife, a computer professional, distrusts it mightily. If I were to want to join any FB groups. I would have to begin by having a "discussion" with my wife.

Tony Thompson





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Union Railroad Gondola 7985 With Pole Load (1928)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

I appreciate that, Tony!

 

In my research, I have noted the lack of good knowledge on the “steel” road cars, primarily USS-related, but also Beth Steel, J&L, and others.  I have eagerly awaited the treatise on the related roads, like EJ&E, URR of Pittsburgh, Lake Terminal, BS, McKeesport Connecting, and others, but expect it is not coming.  They were extremely interrelated, constantly trading, and continuously rebuilding various classes to make them more durable.  Therefore, extremely hard to track.

 

Nevertheless, I have seen these roads’ cars all over the country in photos, so folks should take note!  Here’s how unappreciated some of these cars were:

 

Lake Terminal

 

 

 

 

 

2000-2199

50’6” IL, 70-t, 3’IH, 1439 cuft Gondola

Photo of 2197 c. 60’s? shows black with white lettering and diamond logo; Geo. Elwood site

199 cars – 1/53; 169 cars – 1/64

McKeesport Connecting

 

 

 

 

 

1000-1099

50’6” IL, 70-t, 3’IH, 1439 cuft Gondola

Black, White Lettering

100 cars – 1/53; 100 cars – 1/64

Union RR

G-8 – 6000-6099

G-9 or GB-9 – 6100-6999 (also see 9000 series)

6000-6999

50’6” IL, 70-t, 3’IH, 1439 cuft Gondola

Partially obscured photo in Pitt digital collection shows “likely” either 6281 or 9281 (only last 3 digits visible) in black and white shows centered logo, “UNION” in right panel, and reporting to left.

An additional photo in my archive as “carrie66” shows #6045 in 1966

999 cars – 1/50; only 609 by 10/52; 0 in 7/57; 6000-6099 – 1937; 6100-6999 – 899 cars – built 1937

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 2:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Union Railroad Gondola 7985 With Pole Load (1928)

 

Elden Gatwood wrote:



No one currently makes a gondola model of this guy, but there is a nice F&C kit of the later 50’ URR gons unique to the “steel’ roads like URR, McKCon, Lake Terminal and others.  Everyone needs at least one of these guys.

 

    Exactly right! I happen to have that F&C kit on my workbench as I type.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Re: RGM

Tony Thompson
 

     I'm personally not enamored with FB, but more importantly, my wife, a computer professional, distrusts it mightily. If I were to want to join any FB groups. I would have to begin by having a "discussion" with my wife.

Tony Thompson




Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Union Railroad Gondola 7985 With Pole Load (1928)

Tony Thompson
 

Elden Gatwood wrote:

No one currently makes a gondola model of this guy, but there is a nice F&C kit of the later 50’ URR gons unique to the “steel’ roads like URR, McKCon, Lake Terminal and others.  Everyone needs at least one of these guys.

    Exactly right! I happen to have that F&C kit on my workbench as I type.

Tony Thompson




Re: Cotton Belt

Ken Adams
 

Andrews trucks still in service too.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Re: RGM

Eric Hansmann
 

Anytime you go online to a website or search engine, your data is being harvested. You don’t need to be on Facebook for this to happen.

 

You can put as many apps on the browser to restrict these actions, but data seeps through. Same when you watch a streaming channel. Same when you use an Alexa device. Heck, I’d be very surprised if Groups.io is not collecting data.

 

If you want your info kept off line, then don’t go online. Even then, marketing companies use public records to target audiences for robo calling and US mail deliveries. Auto registration, property details, voter registration, and more are part of the public record and regularly requested by marketing firms.

 

I’m online and enjoy staying connected with this bunch, and others, to discuss steam era freight cars and other hobby topics. How else will you find out the next releases from Exact Rail, Rapido, Resin Car Works, Southbound Modelworks, Speedwitch Media, Tangent, Yarmouth Model Works, and others without being online? Not all of them advertise in print media, and many times the models are nearly gone by the time you read the magazine and decide to order.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 12:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] RGM

 

Complete agreement!

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Thomas Evans via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 9:42 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] RGM

 

IMHO facebook is still as evil as ever!
Their sole purpose is harvesting your personal information to sell at a profit to whoever wants it with no known social responsibility.
If you're OK with that, go for it, but, as for me, I'd rather do without the information.
Luckily, you can still get into most facebook sites without being a member & harvest what you need,
but I understand that still opens you up to some extent to their data harvesting operations. (I'm not sure exactly how?)

Tom E.


Re: RGM

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Complete agreement!

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Thomas Evans via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 9:42 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] RGM

 

IMHO facebook is still as evil as ever!
Their sole purpose is harvesting your personal information to sell at a profit to whoever wants it with no known social responsibility.
If you're OK with that, go for it, but, as for me, I'd rather do without the information.
Luckily, you can still get into most facebook sites without being a member & harvest what you need,
but I understand that still opens you up to some extent to their data harvesting operations. (I'm not sure exactly how?)

Tom E.


Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 

this may help to identify the brake wheel :-) My Dad's photo (and a VERY old scan)


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Union Railroad Gondola 7985 With Pole Load (1928)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bob, Group;

 

While a long way from home (not really), for a URR gondola, and with a load unusual for that road (not really), I would add that this is typical gon behavior, from the numerous photos and documents I have analyzed.  They went everywhere, with everything in them.

 

No one currently makes a gondola model of this guy, but there is a nice F&C kit of the later 50’ URR gons unique to the “steel’ roads like URR, McKCon, Lake Terminal and others.  Everyone needs at least one of these guys.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 2:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Union Railroad Gondola 7985 With Pole Load (1928)

 

Photo: Union Railroad Gondola 7985 With Pole Load (1928)

A photo from the Detroit Public Library:

Blockedhttps://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A257347

Click and hold to enlarge photo.

Caption:

View of railroad yard and factory, Ambassador Bridge during construction. Crane on left; freight car on right. Printed on front: "11, 3/13/28."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: RGM

A&Y Dave in MD
 

I agree with Dave Parker that groups.io is superior for most functions.  What I have found Facebook useful for is developing sources outside rail-oriented people for historical photos and information.  I have a web site on the A&Y (since the '90s) and an groups.io email list dedicated to the A&Y to document and share.  I resisted using FB for the purpose due to all the reasons cited. I shared some of my research in the io list, but got very little feedback. And most of the questions asked on the list from railfans had answers that have existed on my web site since the early 2000's. There was some appreciation, but not much energy.

However, on FB I found a few individuals were interested in the towns served by the railroad.  I joined a few of those FB groups and saw some interesting info.  So I bit the bullet and created a FB group dedicated to the A&Y.  And wow!  I got a LOT of interest from town historians and those into specific industries (I knew about those collectors of the petroleum industry, but who knew people were obsessed on brick kilns and other industries?).  I have developed a number of new sources of info, received quite a few new historical photos (I model 1934, so it's hard to find anyone alive but relatives to interview these days).   I got confirmation of some ideas and theories I had about photos of steam era freight cars that may or may not have been on the A&Y.  I even got a photo of the switcher, confirmation of switching operations, and more info on a photo of the only apparent revenue freight car ever lettered for the A&Y.  Turns out it was likely MoW, but it still came from the steam era (though too late for 1934).  Still I now have a steam era A&Y box car to model!

So for those interested in getting the data they need to model freight cars accurately, FB is one more tool--with all the positive and negative aspects any one tool has.

When researching and building data on the steam era, I'm willing to take advantage of every tool available.

Just because groups.io doesn't have explicit data harvesting reputation, I would still wonder what is the financial model that makes this service available?  I don't think there is ever a free lunch.  As always, whether buying a "rare" "historic" photo or using a "free" resource to help with your steam freight car modeling needs, caveat emptor.

Dave Bott



--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Thomas Evans
 


My experience with the Rocky Ford factory confirms what Richard & Doug have said.
Beets in - granulated sugar out - no juice either came or went.
In later years, they built a concrete silo & shipped granulated sugar out in covered hoppers as well as bagged.
I understand that some other factories shipped refined liquid sugar in bulk, but I'm not well informed on this.
The pulp went out a pipe to the "pulp pit" where farmers could pick it up to make silage for cattle feed.
(That's the part that really stank!)
I understand that some other factories dried & pelletized the pulp, but, again, this is outside my experience.
The use of beet juice as a substitute for road salt on highways in the winter is a modern development post-closure of the Rocky Ford factory.

Tom E.


Re: RGM

Thomas Evans
 

IMHO facebook is still as evil as ever!
Their sole purpose is harvesting your personal information to sell at a profit to whoever wants it with no known social responsibility.
If you're OK with that, go for it, but, as for me, I'd rather do without the information.
Luckily, you can still get into most facebook sites without being a member & harvest what you need,
but I understand that still opens you up to some extent to their data harvesting operations. (I'm not sure exactly how?)

Tom E.


Re: OIL CAR

earlyrail
 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 06:39 PM, Matthew Metoyer wrote:
It's nice to know oil was recycled in the 30's, but useless for the original question about the photo from the early 1900's. The oil cars belong to a Milwaukee Road predecessor, correct? Maybe someone from their historical society has other documents that can help?

Not the Milwaukee, but the Omaha Route,   (Chicago, St Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha) a part of the CNW system
Howard Garner


Re: RGM

Jerry Michels
 

I agree Dave.  Facebook has too loose of a structure.  Jerry Michels


Re: OIL CAR

Jim Ogden
 


Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Douglas Harding
 

The sugar beet plants in the Midwest, ie Iowa and Minnesota, were all in one processors. Sugar beets came in, in any available car, and bags of refined sugar was shipped out in boxcars. Liquid sugar and Molasses was shipped out in tankcars. I far as I know the only thing arriving in tankcars was fuel for boilers.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Thomas Birkett
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 8:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

 

I hesitate to mention the cars I leased out for beet juice that were last contained sodium hydroxide, not clean. We don't buy beet derived sugar at our house.

Another question: in the steam era were beets crushed and the juice sent to another location for final processing? Always looking for a tank car connection for layout industries.

Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK

 

 

 

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

 

-------- Original message --------

From: James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...>

Date: 10/26/20 6:13 PM (GMT-06:00)

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

 

They lined stock cars with cardboard and used them to ship grain, so why worry about sugar beets? Nothing like high protein corn flakes.

Steve Sandifer

 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:34 AM, Jerry Michels

Wouldn't stock cars used for sugar beets and cabbage be cleaned out beforehand?  They were cleaned out after a cattle shipment.  Regarding sugar beets.  They are refined to such an extent that no contamination would remain.  It is a pretty neat process I saw at the Holly Sugar plant in Hereford, TX, before it closed.  Dirty beets go in, pure white sugar comes out.  Jerry Michels


Re: Cotton Belt

Jim Betz
 

Gene,
  Great shot.  The car is 30 years old and still ready to serve.  I found
that stencil on the left door "This Door Is Stationary" ... interesting,
velly interesting (credit to Laugh In).
                                                                                        - Jim


Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Richard Townsend
 

At least at the sugar plants I am aware of in Colorado, beets were not crushed into pulp. They were put through a slicer that cut them into “cossettes” that resembled French fries but with a triangular cross-section. They then went through various cooking and centrifugal processes to extract the sugar. At each stage the result was some form of liquid with more or less sugar content. I haven’t heard of any of the juices being shipped to other places outside the originating sugar factory. They did ship molasses in tank cars as it was considered to be a waste product. The remains of the beets came out as a pulp but that was a result of the refining process, not any initial crushing like with sugar cane.


On Oct 26, 2020, at 7:09 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Thomas Birkett wrote:

I hesitate to mention the cars I leased out for beet juice that were last contained sodium hydroxide, not clean. We don't buy beet derived sugar at our house.
Another question: in the steam era were beets crushed and the juice sent to another location for final processing? Always looking for a tank car connection for layout industries.

      Sugar beets were partially steam cooked and shredded, and the pulp was the source of sugar. (Done all at one plant.) I would think that "beet juice" would be a vegetable juice, not from sugar beets at all. 

Tony Thompson




Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Tony Thompson
 

Thomas Birkett wrote:

I hesitate to mention the cars I leased out for beet juice that were last contained sodium hydroxide, not clean. We don't buy beet derived sugar at our house.
Another question: in the steam era were beets crushed and the juice sent to another location for final processing? Always looking for a tank car connection for layout industries.

      Sugar beets were partially steam cooked and shredded, and the pulp was the source of sugar. (Done all at one plant.) I would think that "beet juice" would be a vegetable juice, not from sugar beets at all. 

Tony Thompson



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