Date   

Re: Banned from Interchange - was Re: Real or no?

Jerry Michels
 

Ron, regarding the 50-year-old underframe retirement question,  I started photographing MP cabooses in earnest in the late 1970s and early 1980s.  Large numbers were retired and stored at Sedalia because of this rule.  Especially the Sedalia and DeSoto home-built cars. Made for some pretty easy pickings for me. Jerry Michels


Re: Banned from Interchange - was Re: Real or no?

Eric Hansmann
 

Of course. I never thought if it from this perspective but it makes sense. Thanks, Dennis!

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Banned from Interchange - was Re: Real or no?

 

Someone should mention, so I will, that most items "banned" from interchange service were about parts inventory rather than safety. The AAR interchange agreement anticipated that most defects were to be repaired where found, with the cost of the repair charged back to the owner road through a system of fixed charges set by the AAR. Antiquated equipment might be fine for a small road that stocked all the parts at their few repair locations, but the majors would grow tired of stocking parts and material that only saw occasional, and dwindling, use. I suspect the ban on K brakes was of this nature. as was the ban on non-standard couplers, which occurred  sometime in the seventies, after our cut-off date.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Smokey Mountain Southern 1953 54'-5" gondola

Eric Hansmann
 

Cool models, Ike! Lots of railroads converted cars for specialty uses. It’s more difficult finding details and photos on these.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 5:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Smokey Mountain Southern 1953 54'-5" gondola

 

The gon is one of the cars SRHA purchased from WrightTrak. We will get it back on the market when we finalize an agreement with someone to do the casting for us. (If anyone is interested in helping, pls contact me.)

It is true, the Southern was the only railroad in the southeast that had this car but they had a LOT of them. In addition to straight gondolas, the Southern created many variants including cars for coiled steel (different covers depending on which shop did the modifications), carbon electrodes used in aluminum smelting and maybe the most complex and unusual.. track panel cars first modified when Inman Yard in Atlanta was rebuilt in the 1950s.

Here are two HO examples. The electrode car is about finished except for lettering. The large moveable bulkhead closest to the camera would be positioned against the load of electrodes stacked between it and the fixed bulkhead at the far end.

The second model is almost unrecognizable as a gondola. Several "drones" and a "master" car traveled together. The stack of track panels were lifted in each car so the bottom panel could be moved to the master (the model in the photo) where an overhead carrier moved them beyond the car to set them in place. The Southern track people really hated them because they were so complex breakdowns were common. Good down-on photos of the prototype have been located that show the cars' piping and mechanics so I think I have enough information to complete the car. (All of the structural drawings are in the SRHA archives but the mechanical parts were added at the Charlotte Roadway Shop and no drawings for that hardware have been found.)

Ike


Re: Banned from Interchange - was Re: Real or no?

Mont Switzer
 

Jim,

Consider the cost to keep them serviceable and safe.  Mofw cars usually set most of the time only  requiring inspection and maintenance when scheduled to move.

Mont Switzer 




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Betz <jimbetz@...>
Date: 11/5/20 1:28 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Banned from Interchange - was Re: Real or no?

Hi,
  We often hear of equipment that was "banned from interchange".  I get that and it
doesn't surprise me.  So here's the thing ... if something like the Allied trucks are
banned from interchange it is probably the result of a failure (probably repeated)
that caused an accident/derailment/something important.  And I get it that the RR
doesn't want to get rid of "serviceable equipment".  So why was (is?) it acceptable
to put your RR employees at risk by using them in stuff like MOW service?
  Yes, you get some extra miles "for very little cost" ... but wouldn't a single 
employee injury make that savings not worth it?  Why wouldn't just one lawsuit
for "negligence" void all of those savings?
  The same would be true of truss rods, brake equipment, lighting changes, ladders
and ladder placements, etc. etc. etc.  It doesn't seem to make "solid" economic
sense in the long run.  Why wouldn't the unions have objected? 
  What am I missing? 
                                                                                                           - Jim 


Re: Accurail Milw 16xxx

Andy Laurent
 

Digest Mode typically strips all but the first two photos, FYI.

Andy L.
Wisconsin


inside stake wood gondola resource file

Eric Hansmann
 

A new resource file is available on my DesignBuildOp blog. Steve Hedlund created a summary of prototype inside stake wood gondolas that were popular among Midwest railroads. Here the link.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2020/11/06/prototype-inside-stake-wood-gondolas/

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

Mont Switzer
 

Monon LO  of that size handled cement. Foundry sand,  limestone dust primary. 

Mont Switzer 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Bill Keene via groups.io" <bill41@...>
Date: 11/5/20 3:37 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "main@realstmfc.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

I am modeling 1952-53 so would be looking for info on what might have been the scheme in that period. A very faded car gray car might be an interesting addition to the fleet. 

I will also second the question regarding the load and service of these cars. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Nov 5, 2020, at 6:37 AM, Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:

Bill,

 

Adding to Mike's response, I started watching Monon rolling stock closely from 1963 on and never saw a gray one.
  Few photos exist.

 

Sunshine offered a mini-kit for this car and Bowser offered the full on paint and lettering on a r-t-r model.

 

Mont Switzer

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Michael Aufderheide [MononInMonon@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2020 7:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

Bill,

4-5 years at the most, I have a "Bob's" photo from 1952 and the paint is barely legible.  They were repainted in the scheme used by the Kato models.

Mike


Re: Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

Mont Switzer
 

Good info,  Mont 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Michael Aufderheide <MononInMonon@...>
Date: 11/5/20 5:57 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

Mont,

Since the sunshine kit is hard to find, you can also use an Intermountain kit and Pierre Oliver's excellent roof and hatch detail mini-kit.  See:

http://www.yarmouthmodelworks.com/index.php/ResinModelKits/Index

Scroll about 3/4 of the way down the page.

There is a decal set available through Tichy:

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/hopper-covered/p/10263-monon-covered-hopper-decal/Default.aspx

There was also a set done by Champ, HC-71.

Not bad for a lot of 100 cars!

MIke Aufderheide


40 mm Bofors rail transport was Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)

Bruce Smith
 

Garth, Folks,

In addition to the AAR/ARA loading books, I have found that an excellent source of equipment loading diagrams for military equipment are the technical manuals. There is usually a railroad loading diagram towards the back. Of course, that doesn't seem to cover this specific case either!

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 4:08 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)
 
Ken and Bruce,

Remember the DOD didn't exist during WWII. Before 1947, we had the separate Navy Department and the War Department. Why is this important to your discussion? Because pre-1947 manuals for these weapons will be found in separate sections in archives. My first real job in the academic library world was in the Government Documents Department at the University of Virginia, which was a designated GPO depository (there are two of these in every state). As such we held paper copies of perhaps a million government documents and publications. I spent a lot of time break time looking at DOD materials, but was delighted to discover that we also had even older stuff up to 1947 in a separate War Department section, including a few manuals on military rail transportation (mandatory FC content). If you are looking for older stuff about 1942 guns on railroad cars, you are going to need to look for War Department documents. Sadly many of these older pieces have never been digitized.

This isn't about railroads, per se, but one of the prizes I found was a War Department book with "builder's photos" of various trucks supplied to the Army. Many of these were more-or-less off-the-shelf 1940 Ford, GMC and Dodge trucks. Except for tires and paint, these were virtually identical to trucks sold to the civilian firms, and many were later sold off as surplus after the war (especially fire engines). I copied out many of these for modeling purposes.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff (retired paraprofessional librarian)  🦆

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 10:06 PM Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:
Bruce,

Look at Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, Vol. 20, pages 1-85, especially p. 67. I am sure that there are some DOD manuals online for much more of the same.

Ken Montero
On 11/05/2020 6:18 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Also some pretty nice 40 mm bofors in HO on Shapeways. I have 2 dual mounts for loading on a PRR F37 flat car, if I could only find a diagram/photo to guide my blocking and tie downs!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Mac shp <mshepler8387@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 2:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)


1/87 bofors
https://www.wespemodels.com/bofors_aa_40mm_wes_87073?search=bofors%20
Search the Wespe site and you may find it as a kit (tiny resin parts beware) and built up


Re: Accurail Milw 16xxx

Paul Doggett
 

Don 

There were four photos two of each car.
Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 5 Nov 2020, at 22:49, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:



Re: Accurail Milw 16xxx
From: Paul Doggett
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 08:57:39 PST

Two nice looking cars Clark 

 

Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 

 

 

What “two” cars guys? I see only opposite sides of the same Milw. Rib side #16039 here.

Where is the single sheathed car refered to?

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Ken and Bruce,

Remember the DOD didn't exist during WWII. Before 1947, we had the separate Navy Department and the War Department. Why is this important to your discussion? Because pre-1947 manuals for these weapons will be found in separate sections in archives. My first real job in the academic library world was in the Government Documents Department at the University of Virginia, which was a designated GPO depository (there are two of these in every state). As such we held paper copies of perhaps a million government documents and publications. I spent a lot of time break time looking at DOD materials, but was delighted to discover that we also had even older stuff up to 1947 in a separate War Department section, including a few manuals on military rail transportation (mandatory FC content). If you are looking for older stuff about 1942 guns on railroad cars, you are going to need to look for War Department documents. Sadly many of these older pieces have never been digitized.

This isn't about railroads, per se, but one of the prizes I found was a War Department book with "builder's photos" of various trucks supplied to the Army. Many of these were more-or-less off-the-shelf 1940 Ford, GMC and Dodge trucks. Except for tires and paint, these were virtually identical to trucks sold to the civilian firms, and many were later sold off as surplus after the war (especially fire engines). I copied out many of these for modeling purposes.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff (retired paraprofessional librarian)  🦆

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 10:06 PM Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:
Bruce,

Look at Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, Vol. 20, pages 1-85, especially p. 67. I am sure that there are some DOD manuals online for much more of the same.

Ken Montero
On 11/05/2020 6:18 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Also some pretty nice 40 mm bofors in HO on Shapeways. I have 2 dual mounts for loading on a PRR F37 flat car, if I could only find a diagram/photo to guide my blocking and tie downs!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Mac shp <mshepler8387@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 2:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)


1/87 bofors
https://www.wespemodels.com/bofors_aa_40mm_wes_87073?search=bofors%20
Search the Wespe site and you may find it as a kit (tiny resin parts beware) and built up


Re: Accurail Milw 16xxx

Jack Mullen
 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 02:01 AM, Garth Groff asked:
Is the attached photo of 711019 of any use to your discussion.?
Heck yes, Garth!  I first looked at the featured 711019 which is no big deal; it's an earlier edition of the Milwaukee 6-panel SS boxcar, with composite ends.
But the car partly visible to the left is one with 4/5 Dreadnaught, and shows the typical lumber door - and on the B end. Cool. And to the right, 715680 with MILW reporting marks instead of CTSE.

Thanks!
Jack


Re: Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)

Bruce Smith
 

Ken,

Got that, but... the mounts in question are naval twin 40s. And the car is a well-flat. Supposedly, the PRR's fleet of these cars was used to specifically move these mounts. None of the diagrams or photos comes close (and yes you should expect page 66 and 67 from me in the near future!)

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 9:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)
 
Bruce,

Look at Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, Vol. 20, pages 1-85, especially p. 67. I am sure that there are some DOD manuals online for much more of the same.

Ken Montero
On 11/05/2020 6:18 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Also some pretty nice 40 mm bofors in HO on Shapeways. I have 2 dual mounts for loading on a PRR F37 flat car, if I could only find a diagram/photo to guide my blocking and tie downs!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Mac shp <mshepler8387@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 2:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)


1/87 bofors
https://www.wespemodels.com/bofors_aa_40mm_wes_87073?search=bofors%20
Search the Wespe site and you may find it as a kit (tiny resin parts beware) and built up


Re: Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)

Kenneth Montero
 

Bruce,

Look at Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, Vol. 20, pages 1-85, especially p. 67. I am sure that there are some DOD manuals online for much more of the same.

Ken Montero

On 11/05/2020 6:18 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Also some pretty nice 40 mm bofors in HO on Shapeways. I have 2 dual mounts for loading on a PRR F37 flat car, if I could only find a diagram/photo to guide my blocking and tie downs!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Mac shp <mshepler8387@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 2:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)


1/87 bofors
https://www.wespemodels.com/bofors_aa_40mm_wes_87073?search=bofors%20
Search the Wespe site and you may find it as a kit (tiny resin parts beware) and built up


Re: Banned from Interchange - was Re: Real or no?

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 05:28 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
To the point about 50 year old underframes being removed service after 1970 or so
I recall it was a few years later than that... I married in 1975, went to work for the transit authority later that year, and it was in my early years with the CTA that the age limit on UF's was instituted.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Banned from Interchange - was Re: Real or no?

Eric Hansmann
 

The USRA had quite a few cars built in 1919. The IC was assigned 1,650 drop-bottom USRA gondolas. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Nov 5, 2020, at 7:28 PM, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:

To the point about 50 year old underframes being removed service after 1970 or so, in 1970 or 71 I clearly remember, watching switching at the MP yard in Wichita, an IC steel drop-bottom gon that I noticed had a built date of 1919.  I would have had no way of knowing at the time if that was right, so I suppose I should throw the question out,  were there actually any IC drop-bottom gons built in that year?

Ron Merrick


Re: Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)

Gavin
 

Unfortunately, the diesel was armoured, but the train died before it could be used. For most of its working life it used an antiquated 4-6-0


On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 11:00 AM Marc Simpson <mlwm420@...> wrote:
CN Lines Magazine had an article about CN's #1 armoured train in the Volume 9 Number 2 issue.  The train was built for use on the line to Prince Rupert, British Columbia due to the threat of a Japanese attack.  It was built in 1942 and was used until 1943 so had a short lifespan.  It used an early boxcab diesel as motive power.  Lots of interesting photos of the train in the article.

You can get a DVD of all the back issues of CN Lines including the one with this article here: http://www.cnrha.ca/node/985/


--
Marc Simpson


Re: Banned from Interchange - was Re: Real or no?

mopacfirst
 

To the point about 50 year old underframes being removed service after 1970 or so, in 1970 or 71 I clearly remember, watching switching at the MP yard in Wichita, an IC steel drop-bottom gon that I noticed had a built date of 1919.  I would have had no way of knowing at the time if that was right, so I suppose I should throw the question out,  were there actually any IC drop-bottom gons built in that year?

Ron Merrick


Re: Smokey Mountain Southern 1953 54'-5" gondola

George Eichelberger
 

The gon is one of the cars SRHA purchased from WrightTrak. We will get it back on the market when we finalize an agreement with someone to do the casting for us. (If anyone is interested in helping, pls contact me.)

It is true, the Southern was the only railroad in the southeast that had this car but they had a LOT of them. In addition to straight gondolas, the Southern created many variants including cars for coiled steel (different covers depending on which shop did the modifications), carbon electrodes used in aluminum smelting and maybe the most complex and unusual.. track panel cars first modified when Inman Yard in Atlanta was rebuilt in the 1950s.

Here are two HO examples. The electrode car is about finished except for lettering. The large moveable bulkhead closest to the camera would be positioned against the load of electrodes stacked between it and the fixed bulkhead at the far end.

The second model is almost unrecognizable as a gondola. Several "drones" and a "master" car traveled together. The stack of track panels were lifted in each car so the bottom panel could be moved to the master (the model in the photo) where an overhead carrier moved them beyond the car to set them in place. The Southern track people really hated them because they were so complex breakdowns were common. Good down-on photos of the prototype have been located that show the cars' piping and mechanics so I think I have enough information to complete the car. (All of the structural drawings are in the SRHA archives but the mechanical parts were added at the Charlotte Roadway Shop and no drawings for that hardware have been found.)

Ike


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Smokey Mountain Southern 1953 54'-5" gondola

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Guys;

 

I can remember the time when NO ONE could be interested in gons, and look at us now!

 

When I pitched the PRR gon book, I was told I was crazy, and had picked the worst possible car type for a book.  I told them it was either that or no more books.

 

I LOVE the great gon models you guys are doing.  Great job, Fenton!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Smokey Mountain Southern 1953 54'-5" gondola

 

Somehow I missed seeing this post earlier. The model is top-notch, Fenton! It seems many of us have been “gon crazy!”

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 9:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Smokey Mountain Southern 1953 54'-5" gondola

 

I just finished another Covid build.  This is a Smokey Mountain Southern, 1953 blt date, 53'-6" gondola.  Jim at Smokey Mt has sold this line of models and it appears the new owner is going to release this car in the near future.
This is a nicely done one piece casting with well done resin and etched metal details.  I haven't figured what load to put in it as of now.
Fenton

4761 - 4780 of 183574