Date   

Re: Interesting 1900-ish boxcar roof

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, OK, MAYBE . . .  😊

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Madden via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2020 4:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Interesting 1900-ish boxcar roof

 

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 01:54 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

Tom, I doubt a GN car would have the word NORTHE . . . stenciled on the side . . .

 

Ummmm....

https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/images/uploads/10403_77010_full_1.jpg

Tom Madden

 

 


Re: Interesting 1900-ish boxcar roof

Tom Madden
 

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 01:54 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

Tom, I doubt a GN car would have the word NORTHE . . . stenciled on the side . . .

 

Ummmm....

https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/images/uploads/10403_77010_full_1.jpg

Tom Madden

 

 


Re: Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)

Andy Laurent
 

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 08:38 AM, Kenneth Montero wrote:
 
Other time-appropriate sources would be the Association of American Railroads "Loading of Commodities on Open Tops Cars" (someone in this group provided a link to a partial of the 1949 version) and the Navy Department, as well as the War Department.
I checked my copy of the AAR pub.  Neither the 1947 version, nor 1949 Supplement 2, include references to loading gun mounts.  But I recall seeing them before.

Andy L.
Wisconsin
 

 


Re: Interesting 1900-ish boxcar roof

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Tom, I doubt a GN car would have the word NORTHE . . . stenciled on the side . . .

 

But other than that, I think it’s interesting that the boards making up the roof have two grooves milled into them, one along each edge, and are alternated so that whatever water goes through the joints of the upper layer has a good chance of getting into the grooves of the lower layer and then draining out.

 

Seemed like a good design at the time . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Madden via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2020 3:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Interesting 1900-ish boxcar roof

 

The attached photo is in the current issue of a historical society publication from my home area in northeastern PA. (Scan courtesy of the editor.) The caption states "Sam Nevin in Columbia Township, Flathead County, Montana". Sam was a sawmill laborer who arrived there in 1900 and by 1910 was back in PA. Interesting pattern in the wood sheathed roof, and look at how neat those stacks of lumber are. Probably a GN car as that's GN country.

Tom Madden


Photo: PRR Livestock Car 125060

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Livestock Car 125060

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3603429

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Car possibly built in 1910.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Grand Trunk Boxcar 311896 (1914)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Grand Trunk Boxcar 311896 (1914)

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3228046

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

This car has a "Rush" placard.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


CN Boxcar 319485

Bob Chaparro
 

CN Boxcar 319485

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3271635

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Car built in 1910

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Unidentified Boxcar "With Metal Roof"

Bob Chaparro
 

Unidentified Boxcar "With Metal Roof"

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3603442

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: NYC Boxcar 257799

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: NYC Boxcar 257799

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=4427350

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Car built in 1912

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Interesting 1900-ish boxcar roof

Tom Madden
 

The attached photo is in the current issue of a historical society publication from my home area in northeastern PA. (Scan courtesy of the editor.) The caption states "Sam Nevin in Columbia Township, Flathead County, Montana". Sam was a sawmill laborer who arrived there in 1900 and by 1910 was back in PA. Interesting pattern in the wood sheathed roof, and look at how neat those stacks of lumber are. Probably a GN car as that's GN country.

Tom Madden


Re: Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

Mont Switzer
 

Mike and all,

As far as I know the Ottawa, IL sand went to Chrysler Foundry on Indianapolis west side.  Sand from Michigan City may have gone there too. 

FYI Chrysler Foundry consumed 1000 cu. Ft.. Of sand every 4 hours Monday thru Friday.  On weekends volume went to 1000 cf every 8 hours.

Mont Switzer 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Michael Aufderheide <MononInMonon@...>
Date: 11/5/20 5:43 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

Scott,

The Bob's photo I mentioned was taken in Ottawa IL, famous for it's silica sand pits.  I have been told by an ex-Monon employee these were in glass service for a Chrysler windshield plant in Indianapolis.  I have not been able to find out much about this, however.   Does anyone know about this factory?

In the Monon conductor's reports I have they carry mostly cement, and I think that is why they were purchased.  The Monon served a large cement plant south of Greencastle IN.  (at a station name called "Cement" !)  The cars also carried soda ash and lime.  It is not recorded in these reports, but I have heard they also carried 'limestone dust'; a waste product from stone cutting mills that is used in the cosmetics industry.

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide


Re: BAR Caboose (was: Banned from Interchange)

Mont Switzer
 

Monon left them on troop kitchen cars converted to storage mail cars after they were placed in MofW service.

Those still in passenger service after 1959 got ASF A3s.  I have one photo of a car after 1959 that had not yet been converted.

Mont Switzer 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Date: 11/5/20 6:35 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] BAR Caboose (was: Banned from Interchange)

Friends,

Quite a few railroads did keep Allied Full-Cushion Trucks running for a loooooong time in on-line service. The attached photo of a BAR caboose (in preservation at Tilton, New Hampshire. by the time I found it) shows this. I also saw C&O MW cars up with Allied trucks still in use up into the 1990s.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


WESTERFIELD MODELS Newsletter, Vol 9, No. 1, November, 2020

dahminator68
 

Hello Steam Era Modeler:

 
To celebrate National Model Railroading Month, we are pleased to announce that Westerfield Models is having a NATIONAL MODEL RAILROAD MONTH SALE! 

Our Sale will be in effect from 12:01 am SATURDAY, NOV 7, 2020 through 11:59 pm Monday, NOV 30, 2020 and is available for orders placed on our Website (westerfieldmodels.com), Mail-in Order Form, email (westerfieldmodels@...) or via Phone (303-658-9343).  Phone orders can be received from 9am to 5pm, Pacific Time Zone on normal business days.
Mailed in orders must be postmarked by DEC 1, 2020.

Please Mention the SALE NUMBER or Coupon Code and your Payment method in the comment section of the order form.  Please note that the website does not take coupon codes at this time. We will adjust your order total with the coupon and let you know the final amount.  Coupons may be used multiple times.  Multiple orders will have shipping combined.

Please note that our website no longer takes payments directly.  Please note on the comment section your choice:  1:  Paypal Invoice,  2: Secure Card Invoice,  3:  We call you for your CC info,  4:  Please send a check.
 

Please choose one of the following sale Options:

SALE #1:       Buy 2 items and get 33% off the SECOND Item.                 

                                 This option is for like items only.  For example, buy 2 Kits and get the second Kit at 33% off 

                                 or buy 2 Decals and get the second Decal at 33% off.
                                 This option is for the following types of items only:  Kits, Decals, Detail Parts & Disks.  See Restrictions Below*.
                                 COUPON CODE:  BUY2SALE


SALE #2:       Buy 3 Items and get 50% off the THIRD Item.
                                 This option can be used for like items or ONE of each type item.  For example, buy 3 Kits and get the third Kit at 50% off 

                                 or buy 3 Decals and get the third Decal at 50% off, or one Kit, one decal & one detail part.
                                 This option is for the following types of items only:  Kits, Decals, Detail Parts & Disks.  See Restrictions Below*.
                                  COUPON CODE:  BUY3SALE

 

SALE #3:       Buy 3 Items and 3 Sets Tahoe Trucks and get 50% off BOTH the third item and third set of Tahoe Trucks.

                                  This option is for like items only. For example, buy 3 Kits and get the third Kit at 50% off

                                  or buy 3 Decals and get the third Decal at 50% off.
                                  This option is for the following types of items only: Kits, Decals, Tahoe Trucks, Detail Parts & Disks. See Restrictions Below*. 

                                  COUPON CODE:  BUY3TAHOE
 
SALE #4:       Buy 6 Items and get the 6th Item FREE.
                                  This option can be used for like items or TWO of each type of item.  For example, buy 6 Kits and get the 6th Kit Free

                                  or buy 6 Detail Parts and get the 6th Detail Part Free or buy two Kits, two decals and two detail parts; one item is free.
                                  This option is for the following types of items only:  Kits, Decals, Detail Parts & Disks.  See Restrictions Below*.
                                  COUPON CODE:   BUY6ONEFREE

 

SALE #5:       Buy 6 Sets Tahoe Trucks and get the 6th set FREE.

                                  This option is for Tahoe Trucks only.  See Restrictions Below*

                                  COUPON CODE:   BUY6TAHOE


All of our Kits are available at our secure website: westerfieldmodels.com


Please Note:  Shipping is not included.


*RESTRICTIONS ON SALE ITEMS:  KITS - The following Kits are NOT eligible for SALE KITS:  All Kits Priced $46 and Higher or Sets #7598, #7599
                                                             DISKS - The following Disks are NOT eligible for FREE DISKS:  ACF Disk, PRR ORER Disks I, II, III or the set of 3
                                                             TRUCKS - Tahoe Model Works Trucks are ONLY included in the sale options THREE and FIVE.

                                                                              Please note that the Tahoe Coupon and everyday Tahoe truck discount CANNOT be combined

 
Please make sure to enter the Sale OR Coupon code(s) and Payment method in the comment section of your order.

Westerfield Kits include new HO scale unpainted highly detailed urethane castings, and are complete with quality details, detailed instruction/history sheets
and proprietary decals covering all versions of the prototype car.   Trucks and couplers are not included but are available.

Westerfield Models will be releasing some new Kits soon.  Make sure you are signed up for our e-newsletter to receive the upcoming news.

Westerfield Models is available for custom casting work.  We can make castings from your patterns, both from your custom masters or your 3D printed masters.  Please see our Website, Main Page "Custom Castings" for more information.  Link to page:  http://westerfieldmodels.com/116622.html

Westerfield Models now has a Facebook and YouTube page where we post photos and videos of our new projects and Modelers photos of completed or in process Westerfield Model Freight cars.
Please send us your photos and videos of your completed or in process Westerfield Model Kits, along with a description of your work, details used, painting methods, etc.
Please send to our email:                    westerfieldmodels@....
Check out our Facebook page here:  https://www.facebook.com/westerfieldmodels/         
If on Facebook, you can use:              @westerfieldmodels.
Check out our YouTube Page here:    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRdohGwh6ms9dGqAyKNRm3Q
 
Our Newsletter is now sent out through our website.  Once subscribed, simply email us at westerfieldmodels@... and we will be glad to make any changes for you.

Questions or Suggestions?  Feel free to email us at:  westerfieldmodels@....

Thank you,

Andrew Dahm
Westerfield Models, LLC
westerfieldmodels.com
westerfieldmodels@...
Like us on Facebook!












Re: Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

Mont Switzer
 

Bill and all,

Only one LO  ended up dedicated to Omar Baking in Indianapolis.  If I recall correctly from diagrams it was fitted with 20 inch circular round hatch openings ON the original square hatch covers.

Mont Switzer 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: william darnaby <wdarnaby@...>
Date: 11/6/20 11:17 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

The EMD library had copies of all of the railroad industry publications going back into the 40’s and I remember seeing a blurb about these cars that stated that some of them were assigned to the Omar Bakery in Indianapolis for flour service.  I don’t imagine that they lasted long in that service as that design of car was not particularly well suited for flour service but it is not beyond comprehension that the Monon gave it a try back in that era.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Aufderheide
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

 

Scott,

The Bob's photo I mentioned was taken in Ottawa IL, famous for it's silica sand pits.  I have been told by an ex-Monon employee these were in glass service for a Chrysler windshield plant in Indianapolis.  I have not been able to find out much about this, however.   Does anyone know about this factory?

In the Monon conductor's reports I have they carry mostly cement, and I think that is why they were purchased.  The Monon served a large cement plant south of Greencastle IN.  (at a station name called "Cement" !)  The cars also carried soda ash and lime.  It is not recorded in these reports, but I have heard they also carried 'limestone dust'; a waste product from stone cutting mills that is used in the cosmetics industry.

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide


Re: Smokey Mountain Southern 1953 54'-5" gondola

George Eichelberger
 

Eric:

ALL of the drawings for the electrode and coil steel cars (and covers) and the track cars are in the SRHA archives. While the  coil covers could be scratchbuilt, they would be good candidates for resin castings. If anyone is interested in making those masters, or doing casting work with the various WriteTrak masters and molds SRHA acquired, please contact me off-line.

Here is a current (partial) photo of Sou 59012. I will cut a 1/4 or 3/8” wood dowel dipped in black paint to represent the electrodes. I struggled to make the rack assemblies the movable bulkhead sits on until I saw the engraving on a large metal file. There is a section at the handle end that has engraving going only one way. By clamping a piece of styrene to the file, it produced a credible representation of the racks (visible in the photo).

I have mentioned the quantity and quality of Southern drawings before. Here’s an example of the stenciling on the moveable bulkhead.

Ike




Re: Real or no?

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 08:59 AM, Randy Hees wrote:
Following up on Tim's statement.  When doing a comprehensive car inspection (required for a waiver on a 50 year+ old freight car used on a FRA regulated tourist railroad) the FRA will require you to inspect to the standards published in the AAR interchange manual.  The last AAR manual containing 40 ton and 50 ton cars is the 1975 manual and supplement.  (which includes solid journal bearings.)
But that point is moot because the FRA wasn't created until SEVEN YEARS after the cut-off date of this discussion group. Yes, in our era the ICC could make force of law rulings, but only in areas where Congress had specifically empowered it to do so, such as safety appliances, power brakes, automatic couplers, etc. Prior to the FRA, there was no overall regulation of the age of rolling stock, it simple had to be properly maintained, and meet certain other requirements to be used in UNRESTRICTED INTERCHANGE. Equipment used solely on the owner's property could be equipped however they wished, which is why we of a certain age could find all sorts of neat antiques in company service. And, as Tim O' pointed out, these antiques could even go off line if the connecting road agreed.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Real or no?

Randy Hees
 

Following up on Tim's statement.  When doing a comprehensive car inspection (required for a waiver on a 50 year+ old freight car used on a FRA regulated tourist railroad) the FRA will require you to inspect to the standards published in the AAR interchange manual.  The last AAR manual containing 40 ton and 50 ton cars is the 1975 manual and supplement.  (which includes solid journal bearings.)

You can get a waiver for multiple issues... for example for age (50+ years) for lettering (the lettering required for a waiver car is larger than historic reporting marks, and potentially for other issues like cast truck frames with dates before 1926, wheel style, draft gear etc... )

Randy Hees


Re: Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)

Kenneth Montero
 

Garth,

You are correct regarding WWII. Thank you.

Other time-appropriate sources would be the Association of American Railroads "Loading of Commodities on Open Tops Cars" (someone in this group provided a link to a partial of the 1949 version) and the Navy Department, as well as the War Department.

Ken Montero

On 11/06/2020 5:08 AM Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Ken and Bruce,

Remember the DOD didn't exist during WWII. Before 1947, we had the separate Navy Department and the War Department. Why is this important to your discussion? Because pre-1947 manuals for these weapons will be found in separate sections in archives. My first real job in the academic library world was in the Government Documents Department at the University of Virginia, which was a designated GPO depository (there are two of these in every state). As such we held paper copies of perhaps a million government documents and publications. I spent a lot of time break time looking at DOD materials, but was delighted to discover that we also had even older stuff up to 1947 in a separate War Department section, including a few manuals on military rail transportation (mandatory FC content). If you are looking for older stuff about 1942 guns on railroad cars, you are going to need to look for War Department documents. Sadly many of these older pieces have never been digitized.

This isn't about railroads, per se, but one of the prizes I found was a War Department book with "builder's photos" of various trucks supplied to the Army. Many of these were more-or-less off-the-shelf 1940 Ford, GMC and Dodge trucks. Except for tires and paint, these were virtually identical to trucks sold to the civilian firms, and many were later sold off as surplus after the war (especially fire engines). I copied out many of these for modeling purposes.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff (retired paraprofessional librarian)  🦆

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 10:06 PM Kenneth Montero < va661midlo@...> wrote:
Bruce,

Look at Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, Vol. 20, pages 1-85, especially p. 67. I am sure that there are some DOD manuals online for much more of the same.

Ken Montero
On 11/05/2020 6:18 PM Bruce Smith < smithbf@...> wrote:


Also some pretty nice 40 mm bofors in HO on Shapeways. I have 2 dual mounts for loading on a PRR F37 flat car, if I could only find a diagram/photo to guide my blocking and tie downs!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Mac shp <mshepler8387@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 2:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Armored CN Gondola With Anti-Aircraft Guns (1942)


1/87 bofors
https://www.wespemodels.com/bofors_aa_40mm_wes_87073?search=bofors%20
Search the Wespe site and you may find it as a kit (tiny resin parts beware) and built up




Re: Firecracker Antennas (as freight)

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks, Tim. Sounds like I need to check the delivery dates for the late Q road numbers to see if they might have come with antennas, though of course the railroad could have installed them after purchase. There’s a great two part Burlington Bulletin on the SD 7s and 9s, but for some reason the GPs haven’t been exhaustively covered in bulletins, so most of the modeling information about the GPs has to come from photos.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2020 8:53 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Firecracker Antennas (as freight)

 


Early 1950's is when they were introduced. This is a 1955 photo.

The upright antenna is almost invisible - just a "whip" antenna.

Sorry Jeff but antennas were sometimes transported in freight cars, so this is a cargo commodity we're talking about. :-D



On 11/4/2020 6:08 PM, mark_landgraf via groups.io wrote:

The answer is the mid 1960s

 

They are still manufactured by Antenna Specialist model ASP-16. It's 11.4 inches tall. It currently sells for $293. 

 

Looking in the Diesel Spotters Guide the GP-18 in 1963 had one. 

 

U25B and U28C manufactured in the mid 1960s had them. 

 

Mark Landgraf

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:48 PM, Nelson Moyer

<npmoyer@...> wrote:

While setting up my new Athearn CB&Q GP-7 241, I noticed a firecracker antenna on the roof. Athearn’s CB&Q GP-7 218 doesn’t have one. What year were firecracker antennas introduced? My F units with antennas all have wagon wheels, so I’m trying to avoid anachronisms. I have photos of #241 with and without the firecracker antenna, but I don’t have any information about when it was installed. The side sill strips are red and yellow before Scotchlite safety stipes were used. One of my 241 photos also has a GP-30 I Chinese Red and Gray, if that helps date the firecracker.

 

Nelson Moyer

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

william darnaby
 

The EMD library had copies of all of the railroad industry publications going back into the 40’s and I remember seeing a blurb about these cars that stated that some of them were assigned to the Omar Bakery in Indianapolis for flour service.  I don’t imagine that they lasted long in that service as that design of car was not particularly well suited for flour service but it is not beyond comprehension that the Monon gave it a try back in that era.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Aufderheide
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Monon Covered Hopper 4240

 

Scott,

The Bob's photo I mentioned was taken in Ottawa IL, famous for it's silica sand pits.  I have been told by an ex-Monon employee these were in glass service for a Chrysler windshield plant in Indianapolis.  I have not been able to find out much about this, however.   Does anyone know about this factory?

In the Monon conductor's reports I have they carry mostly cement, and I think that is why they were purchased.  The Monon served a large cement plant south of Greencastle IN.  (at a station name called "Cement" !)  The cars also carried soda ash and lime.  It is not recorded in these reports, but I have heard they also carried 'limestone dust'; a waste product from stone cutting mills that is used in the cosmetics industry.

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide

9861 - 9880 of 188701