Date   

Re: Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

Robert kirkham
 

Hi Bill,

Moving toward the “Delano look” seems to be a very long road for me.  I’ve been custom mixing pain for quite a while, but it is challenging to land on shades that do justice to the real thing.  And I too am borrowing from the endless Youtube content on weathering techniques and effects.  The military guys have stretched my tool box.  But I am not really content with the results I am achieving yet.  The scale effect and indoor lighting are as much of the challenge as interpreting the photos.  

My question isn’t about CB&Q colours, but just to follow up on an earlier enquiry.  I asked the other day about CB&Q paint - and was advised it was a Mineral red colour (which is, btw, helpful information as a starting point, and I appreciate it).  It was noted that there are products on the market specifically labelled for this colour.  And I can see how they are useful.   

Here’s a couple of examples of a heavily cropped Delano images that show colours I find very hard to duplicate indoors on a model.  I’d say the last photo (taking into account all the interpretation challenges inherent in the photos, etc, etc) might be approximated using, for example, the TruColor CB&Q paint as a starting point.   But the low light in that photo tends to create a colourful glow - I’m not so sure I want to model based on that.  There is a huge range between the three cars.  As many have said before, the colours tend to move toward each other, although there are few cars exactly alike.   And there are a lot of cars that are the dark, washed out gray brown colour of the middle photo.  (Yes, there is a significant atmospheric effect in the photo, but many other photos and light conditions show cars in the same dark tones.)  Many other cars move to the pink range.  And many others in the tan range.  I find grey-brown, pink and tan paint very challenging to use on a model.

I’m collecting stills from film footage of the early and mid 1940s.  The angle of the camera to the car side also impacts how the paint is recorded.   But they tend to show most colours lighter than the Delano shots.  i.e. more pink, more tan, more gray-brown.   

So I am looking for what others who’ve delved into this have concluded and found in their experiments.    
Rob




On Nov 12, 2020, at 6:57 AM, Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote:

Rob,

I don't know the answer to your question, but I will just add that I have been at this hobby, and weathering for a very long time. I have learned more in the last ten years about weathering from a late friend who, in addition to trains, modeled WWII armor and aircraft. He introduced me to Vallejo and other military modeling materials, and to techniques used in that world. There are many YouTube videos from masters of military modeling.

I have spent a lot of time studying and experimenting with those approaches, adjusted for scale and lighting, etc., and have been very pleased with the results.

To echo one of Ben's maxims, weathering done well cannot be quick and easy, in my opinion. 

And I love Jack Delano's photography! I just don't know how to get there under Cool White fluorescent lighting. :)

Bill


Re: Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

Bill McClure
 

Rob,

I don't know the answer to your question, but I will just add that I have been at this hobby, and weathering for a very long time. I have learned more in the last ten years about weathering from a late friend who, in addition to trains, modeled WWII armor and aircraft. He introduced me to Vallejo and other military modeling materials, and to techniques used in that world. There are many YouTube videos from masters of military modeling.

I have spent a lot of time studying and experimenting with those approaches, adjusted for scale and lighting, etc., and have been very pleased with the results.

To echo one of Ben's maxims, weathering done well cannot be quick and easy, in my opinion. 

And I love Jack Delano's photography! I just don't know how to get there under Cool White fluorescent lighting. :)

Bill


Re: Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

Benjamin Hom
 

Rob Kirkham asked:
"Just wondering if anyone ever did a clinic on finishing WWII era rolling stock based on the Delano photos in the Library of Congress?  I'd love to know what conclusions the presenter reached. 

I see in the list archives some good old conversations about the photos, weathering, and Richard Hendrickson's comments about climbing on the rolling stock as a kid, and how really filthy the cars were; and that modellers who are used to seeing later era rolling stock find that hard to accept (I wonder if I'm among that crowd).   In another place he commented that paint coats and how they weathered in later eras is different - and so, weathering techniques for later eras have less use for models set in the steam era."

For starters, review Richard's article "Vintage Dating Freight Cars" starting on page 32 of the December 1995 issue of Railmodel Journal:
This is required reading for anyone doing weathering, as the underlying argument holds for all eras - freight car fleets are dynamic; not everything is brand new not beat to death, but a range of vintages and repair.

Almost all weathering "how-to" articles have the same flaws:
1. They can't see the forest for the trees (see above Hendrickson article).
2. The technique covered is presented as a silver bullet that will replicate every weathering effect.
3. The technique covered is "so easy, a vestie can do it".


Ben Hom

  



Re: Scalpels

Matt Goodman
 

Thanks for writing about this, Lester. I purchased a scalpel handle and #11 equivalent blades from a UK seller on Ebay a year or two ago. Around the same time, I also purchased two Olfa knives: A Designer Art Knife (AK5) and a Cushion Grip Art Knife (AK4). 

The blades for the AK4 are identical in shape to an XActo #11 (though thinner and sharper). The shape of the blade  on the AK5 is about half that of a #11, and I’ve come to prefer that angle. It’s more usable in more situations than the #11 profile (for me).

Long story short, If I buy another set of scalpel blades, they will be a profile similar to the Olfa AK5 blade. But then again, maybe I won’t buy more scalpel blades - the Designer Art knife as a whole is just a joy to handle - especially for tasks like cutting out decals. Links for reference.

Favorite:

Very nice but too heavy for model building:

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio, US

On Nov 8, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

 

If you have an interest in new tools or a new use for an old tool, my new blog post on scalpels and other handles as  Xacto with scalpel blades is available for your read.  Photos and writeup of scalpels are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 
 

Lester Breuer



Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

Robert kirkham
 

Just wondering if anyone ever did a clinic on finishing WWII era rolling stock based on the Delano photos in the Library of Congress?  I'd love to know what conclusions the presenter reached. 

I see in the list archives some good old conversations about the photos, weathering, and Richard Hendrickson's comments about climbing on the rolling stock as a kid, and how really filthy the cars were; and that modellers who are used to seeing later era rolling stock find that hard to accept (I wonder if I'm among that crowd).   In another place he commented that paint coats and how they weathered in later eras is different - and so, weathering techniques for later eras have less use for models set in the steam era.  

Last time this came up, I was just starting to paint models.  Now, years later, I'm back at it again but learning with Vallejo paints this time.  I've been looking at the nits and pieces of 1940s era film footage posted on YouTube, and still go back to the Delano shots over and over.   But I recognize there are multiple factors that should influence how one reads those kinds of source.  So wondering who has gone down that path before. 

I have a vague recollection of someone doing a clinic and would like to see if their observations line up with how I think I am interpreting the photo information.  But my searches have failed to turn up anything more about that clinic or clinician.  



Rob


HO steam and early diesel era freight cars for sale

 

I have three separate sale lists of steam and early diesel era HO scale freight cars that are for sale - Accurail, Kadee and Assorted.  To receive the list or lists you want send an e-mail to me at: mguill1224 at aol dot com  Offered by Hugh T Guillaume, 160 Parkledge Drive, Amherst NY 14226.


Re: Boxcars

Richard Remiarz
 

Thank you everyone for all of the public and private positive comments on the two freights cars and the excess height Intermountain cars.  I thought that more people were aware of the excess height on the Intermountain underframes.  I have learned so much from this group in the past.  It is nice to have a chance and return the favor.

Sincerely,
Rich Remiarz


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of James E Kubanick <jekuban@...>
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 4:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcars
 
Rich,

Really impressive builds. Thank you for stating your techniques on building the cars.

Jim Kubanick.
Morgantown WV

On Monday, November 9, 2020, 4:31:07 PM EST, Richard Remiarz <rremiarz@...> wrote:


Rob,

 

You are correct, I only remove the square material where the trucks mount. 

 

I have received other private emails asking about the height difference, and sent the following response:

 

I find the Intermountain cars to be 3-4” higher than other cars, as shown in these photos.  In the first photo, the NYC car is a Branchline kit, and the CB&Q car is a stock Intermountain kit with the higher bolster, both cars 10’6” cars.  In the second photo are an IMWX 10’ car and a stock Intermountain 10’ car. 

 

Using #5 couplers I didn’t really notice a difference, but since I started using scale couplers and found that matching coupler heights was more critical, I also noticed the Intermountain cars would have couplers slightly higher than the coupler height gauge. 

 

I first noticed this many years ago when I was building up a bunch of the Intermountain GN 40’ boxcars, and noticed they were taller than the other 10’ cars (IMWX) I had at the time.  After measuring the various cars, I came to the conclusion that the Intermountain cars were too high, and that the bolster deign was the cause of the problem.

 

I can’t find the article right now, but I recently read an older article that described the history of the IMWX, Red Caboose, and Intermountain cars, and the article described the difference in underframes and heights.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

Vadnais Heights, MN

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 2:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcars

 

I had no idea!  Thanks for sharing this modification Rich.  To clarify - the only modification is removing the square material on the bottom of the bolster where the trucks mount?  The first photo has me wondering if you were removing material from the top (i.e. the part up against the car body) of the bolsters, cross members etc (which look a lot thicker on the IM than the IMWX cars), but I guess “no”.   

 

Rob

 

On Nov 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Richard Remiarz <rremiarz@...> wrote:

 

There have been a few requests for information on how I lower the bolsters on the Intermountain boxcars.  Years ago I realized that Intermountain boxcars rode too high, especially noticeable when next to other boxcars, and the couplers were slightly on the high side.  The first photo shows an IMWX/Red Caboose underframe on the left and Intermountain underframe on the right.  You can see how much higher the bolster is on the Intermountain underframe.  This makes the cars ride too high.  The Intermountain coupler box has a much thicker cover than the IMWX/Red Caboose coupler box to bring the couplers back down with the raised bolster (IMWX/Red Caboose coupler cover on the left, Intermountain on the right.

 

The second photo shows the bolster after I have removed the entire raised portion.  Usually I do this before attaching the underframe, but I have carefully cut it off on some preassembled cars.  I then attach Kadee scale size couplers in a Kadee coupler box (old #5 coupler box in this case).  The existing hole for the pin on the Intermountain coupler box cover is in the correct location for the Kadee coupler box.  Then I fill in the space between the coupler box and the bolster with blocks of styrene.

 

As shown in the third photo, I use a Kadee red washer on the bolster.  The red washers are 0.015” thick.  In a couple of cases (where the bolsters were not cut down as far) the gray washer was sufficient (0.010”).  The washer gives the truck a smooth surface to rotate on, and spaces the car correctly for the coupler height.

 

After attaching the trucks, I check to make sure the car sits level and the coupler heights.  Sometimes I don’t cut down far enough on one side, and need to even up the bolster. 

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

Vadnais Heights, MN

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: O Fenton Wells
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 5:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Boxcars

 

Nice looking cars Rich. Can you go a bit more in-depth regarding the I’m cars and shaving off the bolster. How much do you remove?




 

<IM 1.jpg><IM 2.jpg><IM 3.jpg><IM 4.jpg>

 

 


Re: Photographs in Digests

Vera Mills
 

Hello,
Red-face department prevails.
Back in April I asked about this problem and Allen Cain ( thanks Allen) kindly suggested a way to obtain all the photographs in a message but it did not work, probably because at the time I was dealing with old messages from last year.
Then, after sending the below message, I remembered Allen's suggestion and voila, it worked.
The solution to view more than two photographs in a message in a digest is to click on "View/Reply Online" at the bottom of that message then scroll to the bottom to find all the photographs.
Thanks.
Regards,
Glen Mills


On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 09:51, Vera Mills <gleng20.mills@...> wrote:
Hello,
For a while now I have been experiencing loss of photographs appearing in digests.
A comment has been made that only two photographs per message make it into the digest
Is it possible to have this problem sorted and/or attach only two photographs max. to a message?
Thanks.
Regards,
Glen Mills


Re: Photo: Photo: NYC&HR Boxcar 100145

ROGER HINMAN
 

Looks like NYC Spec 460 was the one generated to capture this design for XMs, albeit a few years after the fact. It is shown  as being used for the procurement of the Haskell and Barker Lot 5145 , procured under NYC Lots 354-B and 355-B in 1917. The sister XA spec 461 was used for numerous procurements.


Roger Hinman. 

On Nov 9, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Ray Breyer via groups.io <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

That's exactly what happened to this car, Roger. East Buffalo took this ONE car, and rebuilt with all-new everything as a testbed. All subsequent short boxcar orders were built to the standards of 100145, and most of the 1906 and 1910 standard cars were rebuilt to this standard.

I touch on these cars in my assorted reviews of the Accurail shorties on Eric Hansmann's blog.


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



On Monday, November 9, 2020, 03:47:27 PM CST, ROGER HINMAN via groups.io <rhinman11@...> wrote:


A very interesting photo; if I go by the assigned car number, this is a lot 222-B WUF boxcar built in 1907 by ACF to their lot number 4633. The car as shown would then represent a significant rebuilding at the East Buffalo shops in 1912 with the newly designed Kendig steel under frame applied, steel ends , early XLA roof,  Bettendorf cast trucks. and new door hardware. No problem for the accountants to stencil it as “NEW”  Two builder’s photos of the 1907 car are on the Westerfield ACF CD.

Roger Hinman

On Nov 9, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Photo: Photo: NYC&HR Boxcar 100145
A photo from the National Archives of Canada:
This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.
Possibly built in 1912.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA



Re: B&O underframes

ROGER HINMAN
 

I have a copy of Standard Steel drawing 38048 (which is available at the IRM) for a 1916 order of M15 boxcars. I compared this with the drawing referenced in RWA. The underarms are very similar, but not identical. Truck Spacing and cross member spacings are different.

Roger Hinman

On Nov 9, 2020, at 8:08 PM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Can you share the issue date so I can dig around the online archives?
 
The few images of pre-USRA B&O reefers that I’ve seen have been truss rod cars with a straight steel center sill. The M-15 boxcars had a fish belly center sill and no truss rods. 
 
The M-18 boxcar class was similar to the M-15 car design but had truss rods and a steel center sill. About 3000 M-18 cars were put into service in 1916. These are low numbers in comparison to the M-15 cars.
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of lrkdbn via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 6:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O underframes
 
Dear group
In 1917 the B&O ordered a batch of steel underframe freight reefers. Plans were published in the "Railway Age"
trade magazine. The article stated that the underframe was supplied by Ralston. My question is this-is this the SAME underframe as the M-15 DS  box cars i.e. did B&O have a standard underframe design?I can see that the two cars have similar underframes: what I want to know is whether they were exactly the same-say like the Pennsy
X23 and X25 and R7  all have the same underframe.(Things like this come up when you're a rivet counter...)
Thanks for any help you can give
Larry King 



Re: Scalpels

Mac shp
 

A great video discussion on scalpel handles and blades usable  for the hobby is found at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaX1Zx1JmAs


Milw 16xxx

Robert kirkham
 

Taking this conversation a little more broadly, is there a good resource that breaks down the single sheathed MILW boxcar fleet - with spotting information?

Rob 

On Nov 6, 2020, at 6:32 AM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

Paul Doggett wrote:
“Don 
 
There were four photos two of each car.”
 
Hi Paul. 
   I wish that were so as I have only the two of the rib side car.  Don’t know whether it is my 
half vast Internet service provider (Consolidated Communication which swallowed up Fairpoint
after it bought out Verizon’s land lines in Maine, New Hampshire & Vermont) or what but 
Consolidated paid over $100k in fines to Vermont already this year over poor service issues and
the service is still the pits.  
 
    Perhaps someone can forward the two photos of the SS car to me separately. It is of interest 
because they were common in this area in the late 1940’s.
 
Cordially Don Valentine
 
 
 


Re: Accurail Milw 16xxx

Andy Laurent
 

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 08:45 AM, Donald B. Valentine wrote:

 

    Perhaps someone can forward the two photos of the SS car to me separately. It is of interest

because they were common in this area in the late 1940’s.

 

Cordially Don Valentine

All,
If you see photos referenced in a message, but they are not attached (in Digest Mode), click the "View/Reply Online" link at the bottom of that message.  That will take you to the Groups.io page, and that message specifically.  Once there, scroll to the bottom of the page and click "View All XX Messages In Topic", which will show every message in that conversation, and all the associated attachments.  You can scroll back up for the files you want to view.

Cheers,
Andy L.
Wisconsin

 

 


Photo: Lehigh Valley Gondola 32043

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Lehigh Valley Gondola 32043

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=4026585

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Car Built 1941.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Grand Trunk Automobile Boxcar 591043

Bob Chaparro
 

Grand Trunk Automobile Boxcar 591043

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3529636

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

End door car.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


CN Express Reefer 10500

Bob Chaparro
 

CN Express Reefer 10500

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3356824

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Car built 1948.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: EJ&E Gondola 33327

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: EJ&E Gondola 33327

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=4494183

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Car built 1942.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Missouri Pacific Gondola 22212

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Missouri Pacific Gondola 22212

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3933068

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Car built 1937.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Accurail Milw 16xxx

StephenK
 

Here is a link to the Web Archive of the old Ribside Cars index page.    It shows all of the variations that Ribside made, with dates, lettering schemes, roofs and ends.

I find it comes in handy!

http://web.archive.org/web/20160621100315/http://www.ribsidecars.com:80/ribsidecars_017.htm

Steve Kay


Re: Accurail Milw 16xxx

Douglas Harding
 

Done, just emailed Clark’s original post.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 8:32 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail Milw 16xxx

 

Paul Doggett wrote:

“Don 

 

There were four photos two of each car.”

 

Hi Paul.

   I wish that were so as I have only the two of the rib side car.  Don’t know whether it is my

half vast Internet service provider (Consolidated Communication which swallowed up Fairpoint

after it bought out Verizon’s land lines in Maine, New Hampshire & Vermont) or what but

Consolidated paid over $100k in fines to Vermont already this year over poor service issues and

the service is still the pits.  

 

    Perhaps someone can forward the two photos of the SS car to me separately. It is of interest

because they were common in this area in the late 1940’s.

 

Cordially Don Valentine

 

 

 

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