Date   

Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Tony;

 

If you ever find a copy of that, I would LOVE to see a copy!

 

Regards,

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Gatwood, Elden wrote:



There are at least several kinds of well cars, interestingly not separated in the AAR classification, which just lumps them together as “FW” – “Flat well-hole car for special transportation of plate glass, etc.  This car is a flat car with hole in middle to enable lading to be dropped down on account of clearance limits.”

 

Clear as mud. 

 

 Can't speak for other railroads, but I know SP had a document describing each of their specially equipped and heavy duty flat cars. Doubtless this was intended for shippers.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Re: Slide and Negative Scanners

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Charlie,

I use an "Epson Perfection V8000 Photo" scanner, a semi-pro machine that does a pretty good job scanning slides and negatives, as well as general copying. The software is a bit clunky, but I'm used to it now. Everything gets washed through Photoshop anyway. I paid somewhere between $400-500 for the Epson. If you've looked at photos I've shared here, you are seeing stuff done on that machine. This model has probably been succeeded by a newer version with a higher number, but the Epson machines in this range are pretty good, and good values too.

My scanner came with several frames, one for 35 mm negatives, one for 35 mm slides, and some others for which I have yet to find a use. When I have an odd-sized negative, I put it right on the glass. A 6" plastic ruler along the bottom edge keeps the negative square and moves it away from a void space along the edge of the glass. After I have a preview shot on my screen, I select the area of the negative I actually want, eliminating the ruler.

One more thing to consider. Besides Photoshop I use the powerful but inexpensive Graphic Convertor program from Lemke Software. It does some stuff that is really hard to do with Photoshop, like adding text to an image. As its name implies, it can also convert from or to a number of formats, many more than Photoshop can handle. I save everything in TIFF (which unlike JPEG is stable), except for what I convert back to JPEG for attaching to emails.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 1:53 PM Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

All-

 

Does anyone have any experience with slide and negative scanners?   My all-in-one copiers can do a decent job of digitizing photo prints but, even though a couple of them have slide processing capability they are somewhat clunky to use and I have many hundreds of slides and negatives to scan.

 

An additional wrinkle is that I have about 1000 microfilm aperture cards with CB&Q locomotive, freight and passenger car drawings on them which I would also like to scan.  They are on computer keypunch-size cards 3 ¼ wide x 7 ¾ so I am hoping on getting something that can accommodate that width card or be modified to do so.  Some of the scanners look like they have carriers that be duplicated in sheet plastic to make a custom holder…if the slot is 3 ¼ wide or more.  As a last resort I could trim the width of the cards down to fit but I’d rather not.

 

I don’t want to go crazy with speed or quality and get a $5000 professional unit but I don’t want to go cheap and get the Kodak folding box gizmo or the low-end stuff that has no resolution.   I’d rather get one that can connect to my computer for post processing rather than loading to a memory card.   I already have VuScanX64 software which I have used to scan using my all-in-one.

 

If any of you have experience with scanners and can share thoughts or recommendations on brands or models to consider it would be much appreciated.

 

While the subject is technically off-topic it may be of interest to many in each group, please respond off-list unless moderators allow it to run as supporting the interests of the group.

 

Charlie Vlk

Mt. Juliet, TN


Re: Slide and Negative Scanners

Chuck Soule
 

Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive uses Epson scanners, primarily the V800 and V850.  I particularly like that the the associated computer software lets you tweak the scan parameters based on your preview, before you do the final scan.  So minimal photoshopping afterwards!  I have only done prints on it, not slides or negatives, but I know it has the capability.  I believe the V850 slide template will hold 12 slides at once.  It's not cheap, but it is a very good scanner.

Chuck Soule


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

Tony Thompson
 

Gatwood, Elden wrote:

There are at least several kinds of well cars, interestingly not separated in the AAR classification, which just lumps them together as “FW” – “Flat well-hole car for special transportation of plate glass, etc.  This car is a flat car with hole in middle to enable lading to be dropped down on account of clearance limits.”
 
Clear as mud. 

 Can't speak for other railroads, but I know SP had a document describing each of their specially equipped and heavy duty flat cars. Doubtless this was intended for shippers.

Tony Thompson




Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 8, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Group;

 

This is the BM car in question, as the F&C kit.  It is a really different, fun build.

 

And this beast.  Not everyone knows, the FD2 “Queen Mary” was one of the biggest flat cars (depressed center) in existence, built to use 4 huge trucks off of PRR long distance tenders, for ONE load (with expectations for others).  More unknown is this well hole flat, PRR class FW1, built for ONE load, to use with those same trucks.  They lifted off the FD2 body, then plopped this deep well hole body on top.  Check out THAT load!

 

Whew.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 6, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Group;

 

How about this combo of well car AND depressed center flat?

 

It used a GSC casting to combine load-bearing well floor with depressed well, to boot.

 

Load distributed on end decks and side sills.

 

USS Homestead Works was a particularly good customer.

 

Listed as “FD”.

 

Hmmmm.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:37 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 5, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Then there are these guys.

 

I DARE you to build one. (The F&C kit is a great start).  Prepare for some interesting fabrications!

 

PRR took a handful of regular F25, and took the floor out and replaced it with thinner cross bars as shown in F25C interior. (Thanks to the great Craig Bossler)

 

This dropped the load inches closer to the floor, but not suspended, but on a load-bearing floor.  Note how load is secured in 435482.

 

The diagonal plate or tank head loaders did the same thing, but with the additions of the racks onto which the load rested, on that one side of the cars.

 

These cars were heavily notated about load distribution, as you can guess.

 

The B&M cars that served GE were a hybrid of well and well hole.  (F&C kit, also)  They had a non-load-bearing well, being more of a protection for the bottom of the load, than something bearing weight.  Those bore the load entirely on the end decking, by use of long beams that spanned the length of the car.  Take a look at that kit, for a really nice build.

 

“FW”, indeed.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:35 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 4, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Group;

 

Then there are the well cars with no floor, like the FN.

 

Here is Jack Consoli’s fabulous rendition (featured in TKM) in which the load is both suspended and distributed to side sills and ends, but blocked inside the well with distribution to the end members shown in the photo of 470026. Yes, stenciled merely as “FW”.

 

The F37B got the very tallest loads that could be accommodated on a railroad.  Obviously they traveled widely, since nothing else could do what they did.

 

Fascinating.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 2, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Group;

 

One of the interesting engineering problems in those days was how to distribute a load across the car without destroying the car.

 

For well cars with floors that were load-bearing, it generally involved distributing part of the load to the inside of the car where the load attached, but also to the (generally) more rugged (and deeper) side sill, by means of a series of load-bearing shapes connecting well bottom/side cross members, to the outside sill.

 

RDG 99009 is one of those. This load is clearly resting on the floor.  No load is transferred to the ends or side sills.

 

But, Here are a couple shots illustrating a load being transferred to the side sill:

 

Concentration of a load on the floor would punch through the generally thin or shallow cross bearers in these cars.  The Otis load is being spread out broadly.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:55 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Group;

 

I thought maybe one or two of you would be interested in this murky subject:

 

There are at least several kinds of well cars, interestingly not separated in the AAR classification, which just lumps them together as “FW” – “Flat well-hole car for special transportation of plate glass, etc.  This car is a flat car with hole in middle to enable lading to be dropped down on account of clearance limits.”

 

Clear as mud. 

 

To a shipper that has a vertically oversized load to ship, there are some important considerations I would want to know.  Does the car have a floor in the well?  How far is it from the rails?  Is the floor load bearing?  If my load added on top of that still exceeds clearance, are portions of the floor removable in order to drop it closer to the rail without touching (especially important in the shipment of giant rings or circular ductwork or piping/valves)?  If this still doesn’t work, is there a car that has no floor that I could suspend the load into, that would work?  We are literally talking inches here….

 

None of that is clear in an AAR classification, forcing one to look at each car in detail, a shipper’s nightmare.

 

I can’t answer why, but they never did fully flesh this out.

 

PRR clearly had shippers in mind when they put more info in the ORER under each car, as notes (more on that in a follow-on).

 

Attached, the earliest PRR well hole car, the FN, with no floor, and the FNA with a nominal floor that can be removed if needed.  It is clearly not a load bearing floor. 

 

The last photo is interesting.  The shipper needs both flooring partially (at the least) removed, AND a tilt to the load to get it within clearance limits.  They have clearly supported the edges of the load above the rails by installing supports beneath on either side of the rim.  How’s THAT for an innovative solution?

 

These guys were smart!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 12:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

Blockedhttps://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3607476

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Car built 1924, photo taken 1938 or later.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Slide and Negative Scanners

Bill McClure
 

Charlie,

I have done a lot of scanning over the years, starting with a Nikon Coolscan. At the moment I have an Epson V750 Pro flatbed that will do everything from negs to slides to documents, and a Plustek Optic Film 7600i that does slides and negs. I much prefer the latter for slides and 35mm negs. Both of these have a few years on them so there might be newer models. They came from B&H Photo in New York.

The Epson flatbed versions would handle your aperture cards well. I have scanned old, odd sized prints and B&W negs on that one with great results.

But for me the key is scanning software. I use Silverfast Ai, a German product that has a special setting for Kodachrome and works extremely well. Kodachrome was made with dye layers that can befuddle some scanners. That software is specific for the scanner model.

Good luck,
Bill


Re: Slide and Negative Scanners

Nathan Obermeyer
 

Charlie,

I have an Epson V600 and have been pretty happy with it for slides, negatives, and old photos. I've been pretty impressed with the negative digital scans compared to photos that were produced from the negatives. I wish I would have went with a V800 or V850 to scan more slides at a time then the 4 I can now. But I don't have a large slide collection and only purchase a few slides at a time so it's not an issue. Another option for slides is an adaptor for a SLR camera which allows for faster images and the ability to focus better. The camera option is pretty cheap - given if you already have a SLR plus they'll download directly to lightroom/photoshop for processing. 

Nate


Re: [CBQ] Slide and Negative Scanners

Dave Lotz
 

Charlie,

 

I purchased an Epson V800 and am very pleased with it for transparencies as it will scan large format negatives as well as slides.  It connects via USB and is Twain compliant for importing directly into Photoshop.  The only complaint is that for prints, it does not scan the full width of the glass.

 

Dave

 

From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 1:53 PM
To: CBQ@groups.io; Ry-ops-industrialSIG@groups.io; RealSTMFC@groups.io; PassengerCarList@groups.io
Subject: [CBQ] Slide and Negative Scanners

 

All-

 

Does anyone have any experience with slide and negative scanners?   My all-in-one copiers can do a decent job of digitizing photo prints but, even though a couple of them have slide processing capability they are somewhat clunky to use and I have many hundreds of slides and negatives to scan.

 

An additional wrinkle is that I have about 1000 microfilm aperture cards with CB&Q locomotive, freight and passenger car drawings on them which I would also like to scan.  They are on computer keypunch-size cards 3 ¼ wide x 7 ¾ so I am hoping on getting something that can accommodate that width card or be modified to do so.  Some of the scanners look like they have carriers that be duplicated in sheet plastic to make a custom holder…if the slot is 3 ¼ wide or more.  As a last resort I could trim the width of the cards down to fit but I’d rather not.

 

I don’t want to go crazy with speed or quality and get a $5000 professional unit but I don’t want to go cheap and get the Kodak folding box gizmo or the low-end stuff that has no resolution.   I’d rather get one that can connect to my computer for post processing rather than loading to a memory card.   I already have VuScanX64 software which I have used to scan using my all-in-one.

 

If any of you have experience with scanners and can share thoughts or recommendations on brands or models to consider it would be much appreciated.

 

While the subject is technically off-topic it may be of interest to many in each group, please respond off-list unless moderators allow it to run as supporting the interests of the group.

 

Charlie Vlk

Mt. Juliet, TN




Avast logo

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com



Re: For Tony Wagner . . .FW: [RealSTMFC] D&H 36' Box Cars

Dennis Storzek
 

A lot of the hardware on that Indestructible end looks familiar... If re-working an Accurail car it would be well worth saving the end sill just for the polinf pocket castings. Unfortunetly, the NYC used a rather odd design striker; I like this one better, but went with what the NYC used.  I gave some thought to this end when I tooled the 36' car body,but being a single sheathed end with the sheathing inset from the corner posts required not only new end inserts but also a new core, and still would have interfered with the floor, so it didn't happen.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Ann Arbor Hutchins End (was FW&D 7231 Accurail kitbash)

Dennis Storzek
 

That photo of the Hutchins end with two pressings per panel is a new one on me... learn something new every day. Hutchins must have bought a bigger press before they were forced to end production.

Dennis Storzek


Slide and Negative Scanners

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

 

Does anyone have any experience with slide and negative scanners?   My all-in-one copiers can do a decent job of digitizing photo prints but, even though a couple of them have slide processing capability they are somewhat clunky to use and I have many hundreds of slides and negatives to scan.

 

An additional wrinkle is that I have about 1000 microfilm aperture cards with CB&Q locomotive, freight and passenger car drawings on them which I would also like to scan.  They are on computer keypunch-size cards 3 ¼ wide x 7 ¾ so I am hoping on getting something that can accommodate that width card or be modified to do so.  Some of the scanners look like they have carriers that be duplicated in sheet plastic to make a custom holder…if the slot is 3 ¼ wide or more.  As a last resort I could trim the width of the cards down to fit but I’d rather not.

 

I don’t want to go crazy with speed or quality and get a $5000 professional unit but I don’t want to go cheap and get the Kodak folding box gizmo or the low-end stuff that has no resolution.   I’d rather get one that can connect to my computer for post processing rather than loading to a memory card.   I already have VuScanX64 software which I have used to scan using my all-in-one.

 

If any of you have experience with scanners and can share thoughts or recommendations on brands or models to consider it would be much appreciated.

 

While the subject is technically off-topic it may be of interest to many in each group, please respond off-list unless moderators allow it to run as supporting the interests of the group.

 

Charlie Vlk

Mt. Juliet, TN


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ken;

 

Appreciate those notes.  You are right.  The ORER info is good for many applications.

 

I was commenting on the lack of detail on the FW cars.  The ORER notes are good, but incomplete for many of the FW.  I am not sure why, but maybe it was a PITA that they left between the RRs and shippers.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of akerboomk
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 1:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

A few notes:

  1. Sometimes you NEED a (non-structural) floor to protect the load from debris kicked up from the roadbed. The B&M’s well cars had such, as they were used to carry gears from GE (you don’t want gear teeth dinged by ballast)
  2. In the ORERs (in the back) is a section “Heavy Capacity and Special Type Flatcars” (that was 1953, it may have changed verbiage over time) – FD, FG, FW, FM types only.  Makes it a bit easier to find what you need J
  3. [I think] most/all well & depressed flat cars in the ORER had notes (later moved to the section in the back) detailing size of well, height from rail, etc. – what you would need as a shipper to figure out if there was a car for your load.

Ken


--
Ken Akerboom


Photo: WFEX Reefer 67899(1951)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: WFEX Reefer 67899(1951)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55050/rec/124

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Interestingly, this car does not have placard boards on the end or car side.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

akerboomk
 

RE: that armor plate…

I find it interesting that Carnegie Steel was making armor plate for “Bethlehem Steel” !

(I’m guessing they were making it for Beth Steel’s shipbuilding operations, rather than Beth Steel itself)


--
Ken Akerboom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

akerboomk
 

A few notes:

1)    Sometimes you NEED a (non-structural) floor to protect the load from debris kicked up from the roadbed. The B&M’s well cars had such, as they were used to carry gears from GE (you don’t want gear teeth dinged by ballast)

2)    In the ORERs (in the back) is a section “Heavy Capacity and Special Type Flatcars” (that was 1953, it may have changed verbiage over time) – FD, FG, FW, FM types only.  Makes it a bit easier to find what you need J

3)    [I think] most/all well & depressed flat cars in the ORER had notes (later moved to the section in the back) detailing size of well, height from rail, etc. – what you would need as a shipper to figure out if there was a car for your load.

Ken


--
Ken Akerboom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 6, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Group;

 

How about this combo of well car AND depressed center flat?

 

It used a GSC casting to combine load-bearing well floor with depressed well, to boot.

 

Load distributed on end decks and side sills.

 

USS Homestead Works was a particularly good customer.

 

Listed as “FD”.

 

Hmmmm.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:37 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 5, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Then there are these guys.

 

I DARE you to build one. (The F&C kit is a great start).  Prepare for some interesting fabrications!

 

PRR took a handful of regular F25, and took the floor out and replaced it with thinner cross bars as shown in F25C interior. (Thanks to the great Craig Bossler)

 

This dropped the load inches closer to the floor, but not suspended, but on a load-bearing floor.  Note how load is secured in 435482.

 

The diagonal plate or tank head loaders did the same thing, but with the additions of the racks onto which the load rested, on that one side of the cars.

 

These cars were heavily notated about load distribution, as you can guess.

 

The B&M cars that served GE were a hybrid of well and well hole.  (F&C kit, also)  They had a non-load-bearing well, being more of a protection for the bottom of the load, than something bearing weight.  Those bore the load entirely on the end decking, by use of long beams that spanned the length of the car.  Take a look at that kit, for a really nice build.

 

“FW”, indeed.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:35 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 4, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Group;

 

Then there are the well cars with no floor, like the FN.

 

Here is Jack Consoli’s fabulous rendition (featured in TKM) in which the load is both suspended and distributed to side sills and ends, but blocked inside the well with distribution to the end members shown in the photo of 470026. Yes, stenciled merely as “FW”.

 

The F37B got the very tallest loads that could be accommodated on a railroad.  Obviously they traveled widely, since nothing else could do what they did.

 

Fascinating.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 2, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Group;

 

One of the interesting engineering problems in those days was how to distribute a load across the car without destroying the car.

 

For well cars with floors that were load-bearing, it generally involved distributing part of the load to the inside of the car where the load attached, but also to the (generally) more rugged (and deeper) side sill, by means of a series of load-bearing shapes connecting well bottom/side cross members, to the outside sill.

 

RDG 99009 is one of those. This load is clearly resting on the floor.  No load is transferred to the ends or side sills.

 

But, Here are a couple shots illustrating a load being transferred to the side sill:

 

Concentration of a load on the floor would punch through the generally thin or shallow cross bearers in these cars.  The Otis load is being spread out broadly.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:55 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Group;

 

I thought maybe one or two of you would be interested in this murky subject:

 

There are at least several kinds of well cars, interestingly not separated in the AAR classification, which just lumps them together as “FW” – “Flat well-hole car for special transportation of plate glass, etc.  This car is a flat car with hole in middle to enable lading to be dropped down on account of clearance limits.”

 

Clear as mud. 

 

To a shipper that has a vertically oversized load to ship, there are some important considerations I would want to know.  Does the car have a floor in the well?  How far is it from the rails?  Is the floor load bearing?  If my load added on top of that still exceeds clearance, are portions of the floor removable in order to drop it closer to the rail without touching (especially important in the shipment of giant rings or circular ductwork or piping/valves)?  If this still doesn’t work, is there a car that has no floor that I could suspend the load into, that would work?  We are literally talking inches here….

 

None of that is clear in an AAR classification, forcing one to look at each car in detail, a shipper’s nightmare.

 

I can’t answer why, but they never did fully flesh this out.

 

PRR clearly had shippers in mind when they put more info in the ORER under each car, as notes (more on that in a follow-on).

 

Attached, the earliest PRR well hole car, the FN, with no floor, and the FNA with a nominal floor that can be removed if needed.  It is clearly not a load bearing floor. 

 

The last photo is interesting.  The shipper needs both flooring partially (at the least) removed, AND a tilt to the load to get it within clearance limits.  They have clearly supported the edges of the load above the rails by installing supports beneath on either side of the rim.  How’s THAT for an innovative solution?

 

These guys were smart!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 12:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

Blockedhttps://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3607476

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Car built 1924, photo taken 1938 or later.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: CGTX 8654 Tallow Tank Car

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: CGTX 8654 Tallow Tank Car

A partial photo of this tank car courtesy of the Old Time Trains website:

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/tallow_tank.jpg

This was taken in  August 1954 at Vancouver, B.C., Canada.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 5, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Then there are these guys.

 

I DARE you to build one. (The F&C kit is a great start).  Prepare for some interesting fabrications!

 

PRR took a handful of regular F25, and took the floor out and replaced it with thinner cross bars as shown in F25C interior. (Thanks to the great Craig Bossler)

 

This dropped the load inches closer to the floor, but not suspended, but on a load-bearing floor.  Note how load is secured in 435482.

 

The diagonal plate or tank head loaders did the same thing, but with the additions of the racks onto which the load rested, on that one side of the cars.

 

These cars were heavily notated about load distribution, as you can guess.

 

The B&M cars that served GE were a hybrid of well and well hole.  (F&C kit, also)  They had a non-load-bearing well, being more of a protection for the bottom of the load, than something bearing weight.  Those bore the load entirely on the end decking, by use of long beams that spanned the length of the car.  Take a look at that kit, for a really nice build.

 

“FW”, indeed.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:35 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 4, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Group;

 

Then there are the well cars with no floor, like the FN.

 

Here is Jack Consoli’s fabulous rendition (featured in TKM) in which the load is both suspended and distributed to side sills and ends, but blocked inside the well with distribution to the end members shown in the photo of 470026. Yes, stenciled merely as “FW”.

 

The F37B got the very tallest loads that could be accommodated on a railroad.  Obviously they traveled widely, since nothing else could do what they did.

 

Fascinating.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 2, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Group;

 

One of the interesting engineering problems in those days was how to distribute a load across the car without destroying the car.

 

For well cars with floors that were load-bearing, it generally involved distributing part of the load to the inside of the car where the load attached, but also to the (generally) more rugged (and deeper) side sill, by means of a series of load-bearing shapes connecting well bottom/side cross members, to the outside sill.

 

RDG 99009 is one of those. This load is clearly resting on the floor.  No load is transferred to the ends or side sills.

 

But, Here are a couple shots illustrating a load being transferred to the side sill:

 

Concentration of a load on the floor would punch through the generally thin or shallow cross bearers in these cars.  The Otis load is being spread out broadly.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:55 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Group;

 

I thought maybe one or two of you would be interested in this murky subject:

 

There are at least several kinds of well cars, interestingly not separated in the AAR classification, which just lumps them together as “FW” – “Flat well-hole car for special transportation of plate glass, etc.  This car is a flat car with hole in middle to enable lading to be dropped down on account of clearance limits.”

 

Clear as mud. 

 

To a shipper that has a vertically oversized load to ship, there are some important considerations I would want to know.  Does the car have a floor in the well?  How far is it from the rails?  Is the floor load bearing?  If my load added on top of that still exceeds clearance, are portions of the floor removable in order to drop it closer to the rail without touching (especially important in the shipment of giant rings or circular ductwork or piping/valves)?  If this still doesn’t work, is there a car that has no floor that I could suspend the load into, that would work?  We are literally talking inches here….

 

None of that is clear in an AAR classification, forcing one to look at each car in detail, a shipper’s nightmare.

 

I can’t answer why, but they never did fully flesh this out.

 

PRR clearly had shippers in mind when they put more info in the ORER under each car, as notes (more on that in a follow-on).

 

Attached, the earliest PRR well hole car, the FN, with no floor, and the FNA with a nominal floor that can be removed if needed.  It is clearly not a load bearing floor. 

 

The last photo is interesting.  The shipper needs both flooring partially (at the least) removed, AND a tilt to the load to get it within clearance limits.  They have clearly supported the edges of the load above the rails by installing supports beneath on either side of the rim.  How’s THAT for an innovative solution?

 

These guys were smart!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 12:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

 

Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

Blockedhttps://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3607476

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Car built 1924, photo taken 1938 or later.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


For Tony Wagner . . .FW: [RealSTMFC] D&H 36' Box Cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Hi,

 

Ben Dibble is a friend of mine, not a denizen of this list.  But he’s quite willing to share his collection of photos of the subject cars.  You can contact Ben directly if you want.  His email in included in this exchange below.

 

Schuyler

 

From: Ben Dibble <bldibble@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:18 PM
To: schuyler.larrabee@...
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H 36' Box Cars

 

S -

 

Perhaps you can post these in that group? Or forward to Tony?

 

23659 - I found this photo in my collection. Author unknown.

 

35246 - Looks like my shots. Who else would take a bunch of shots of an old car? :^)

 

35453 - My shots. yet more shots.

 

35461 - At Oneonta - see the stacks from the roof behind the car. This isn't a match for the Westerfield car, but yet another replacement end.

 

"D&H Slide" - not mine, and really hard to see. But I think that's a Hutchins end?

 

That's all the 36' shots I have, that aren't in books.

 

Have him email me directly if he doesn't have the 1928 Freight car book.
Ben

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Dibble <bldibble@...>
To: schuyler.larrabee@... <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2020 11:36 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H 36' Box Cars

Hi,

 

John Nehrich is posting info on the 36' box cars in his fb page. Please ask Tony Wagner to check there for what he needs.
Ben

-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...>
To: 'Ben Dibble' <bldibble@...>
Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2020 11:43 pm
Subject: FW: [RealSTMFC] D&H 36' Box Cars

I expect that issue is in the Club’s library . . .

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 8:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H 36' Box Cars

 

Tony Wagner asked:

"Hey guys, or girls, anyone have photos of D&H 36' box cars? Post war is preferred but any showing the various end upgrades will do nicely. Looking to do a mild upgrade of a pair of Accurail cars and while I have a couple of photos more would help. I'm modeling 1949 and the D&H still had a couple thousand of these cars in service then."

 

See John Nehrich's "Modeling D&H's 1907 Wooden Boxcars" in the December 1987 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman.

 

 

Ben Hom


Re: Bill Welch

SamClarke
 

I was off work yesterday and when I returned this morning I found my STMFC file sadly filled with “BILL WELCH” in the subject and my heart just dropped filled with the sorrow of loosing another man of class, extreme modeler, and a very good friend. My direct contact with Bill was limited to the few RPMs I’ve been able to attend, however, I’ve spent a great deal of time talking to Bill via e-mails and phone cons. A bit opposite of most of you that have commented because rather than being helped by Bill I actually was helping Bill find non stocked Kadee detail parts and such. I really enjoyed him and our conversations.

 

Bill was simply a man of class and he will be sorely missed.  Our condolences go out to his family and friends.

 

 

 

 

Sam Clarke

R&D / Tech Advisor / Artist

Kadee Quality Products Co.

mail@...

541-826-3883

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4061 - 4080 of 183377