Date   

Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Todd Horton
 

Great photo, did these cars get AB brakes and survive till?

Todd Horton


On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 09:14:49 PM EST, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

hubert mask
 

 FYI , I offer that decal for the ACF and Pullman car.  100 years.

Nice photo.

Hubert Mask
Mask Island Decals Inc.


On Nov 22, 2020, at 9:12 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:

The full resolution file:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=46500&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--
<image001.png>
Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:30 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

 

Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/46500/rec/40

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Built 1951 by Pullman-Standard.

Note "New Roof" stencil at upper right hand corner.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

<image001.png>


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

 

The full resolution file:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=46500&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:30 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

 

Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/46500/rec/40

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Built 1951 by Pullman-Standard.

Note "New Roof" stencil at upper right hand corner.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: 1956 ORER has been sold

Armand Premo
 



On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 1:53 PM Hugh Guillaume via groups.io <mguill1224=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
1956 ORER has been sold.  Thank you!  HTG


Re: Seeing individual boards on Single Sheathed cars

np328
 

  Andy,
            here is a link to a Rock Island car photographed by John Vashon at the Minneapolis Pillsbury "A" Mill. 
https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsa.8a04504/       and the photo at a much higher resolution   https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04504v.jpg 

Gaps between the boards?  To quote Roger Rabbit - Pleeeeeaasse.    I'm not sure if it is a mastic oozing out however it is clearly proud of the surface.  Not gaps.  

Railroad house cars have sheathing to protect the commodity, as soon as they gets gaps or are warped to any great degree, the cars become practically worthless and generally speaking shippers would reject them.  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Jim Dick - Roseville, MN 


Re: Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

np328
 

Schuyler writes regarding oversize gaps on modeled cars: Are we only talking to ourselves here? 
      
I think that it is very possible that we are. And then there could be the same who feel that even this conversation is - nuts! - to lean upon researchers "bell curve"    https://www.simplypsychology.org/normal-distribution.html 

The NP 6000-6999 series cars built by General American Car Company in 1923 were the NP's desire to get a larger share than they had of the automobile market. I have written prior that when the NP had Detroit area traffic agents made inquiries on how the NP might get more traffic, they found that they needed to have empty cars at the ready locally to the auto plants.  GACC was approached and asked if the NP could have cars delivered ASAP and GACC stated that they currently had jigs in place for SP cars of generally the same design and would the NP accept SP clones? Though the NP and SP were on quite amicable terms with (with the President of the NP often spending lengthy holiday visits with the SP President) the NP Mechanical department wanted a more substantial floor which had letters back and forth to the point GACC stated that a decision had to be made or else the NP could go back to the end of the order line which was 9 months at best, more likely a year. 
       About 10 years or so after they were built, some of the cars (500) of the then 998 cars were rebuilt into the 30000 series with single six foot door instead of the original door and a half six and three foot doors.  Many of these cars soldiered on well through this lists end date BTW as appliance cars, grain cars, general service going all over.  
   
     I had a conversation with a resin caster while turning over a mailing tube of plans on the 6000/30000 series NP cars about 6-10 years ago at CCB and made sure to mention my concerns about "oversized gaps or overly distressed and warped boards".  Something, after decades of reading letters of the Mechanical department and elsewhere, that stated the NP wood sheathed cars were generally maintained in better shape than the industry as a whole and I relayed that to this person. 
      While a completely cordial conversation, the reply as I recall had something to do with the total market in that there were sales to the toy train modeling aspect (my words, not his) and that this part of his sales which (paraphrasing his words) were people whom he doubted would ever assemble his kits however were fascinated by how the model looked in their display. And to these people - seeing oversize gaps and deep graining was actually part of the appeal.  He gave me what he felt was an estimate of this group of his sales and said (paraphrasing again) as long as they put bread on his plate he was not going to go out of his way offend them. I'll go on to say that I think the person and the company are very good folks and have added many, many, good models to our model railroad realm.    

     The corollary is of course that folks who desire greater fidelity are in part, held captive by these people however well meaning, do not care, none the less make purchases in the margins.   
And of course higher fidelity has lead to some price increases - which to me only makes sense.
Quality invariably costs more, I accept that.
However in this list can be found opinions of those who feel otherwise regarding cost increases.                                                                               Jim Dick - Roseville, MN  

 

 





Re: Photos: "New Roof" Stencil (1945-1946)

np328
 

 Schuyler, 
        until you called this out I had never noticed this X-bracing either.   Of the cars found in this grouping I do not recall seeing a larger image of this car. Looking back again there does not seem to be one that includes a road name.  Of the number on the underframe, on the NP a 200xxx number indicates company service, and this car is clearly in general service so not NP. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Jim Dick - St. Paul, MN   


Re: Seeing individual boards on Single Sheathed cars

Paul Doggett
 

The Tichy USRA boxcar really sets the standard for planking on boxcar sides in my humble opinion.

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 22 Nov 2020, at 20:38, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

I agree.   Almost all models of single sheath cars have grooves molded in to delineate separate boards, and those grooves are way too large.  As Andy says, those "grooves" just don't show in this photo.   The don't show up in most photos (and that goes for wooden passenger cars too.).  The Accurail single sheathed cars (4200, 4300, and 4500 series) do a much better job here--the casting shows boards at slightly different levels with no grooves between them.   As far as I'm concerned, they are the best in the business.

Steve Kay


Re: Seeing individual boards on Single Sheathed cars

StephenK
 

I agree.   Almost all models of single sheath cars have grooves molded in to delineate separate boards, and those grooves are way too large.  As Andy says, those "grooves" just don't show in this photo.   The don't show up in most photos (and that goes for wooden passenger cars too.).  The Accurail single sheathed cars (4200, 4300, and 4500 series) do a much better job here--the casting shows boards at slightly different levels with no grooves between them.   As far as I'm concerned, they are the best in the business.

Steve Kay


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Andy, Bob and Friends,

One of these cars used to sit in Jack London Square in Oakland, California. It is now in the Niles Canyon Railway in Fremont.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 1:02 PM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
A survivor with one side remaining in Santa Fe paint can be found in Southern California's town of Inyokern, just below Ridgecrest at a Hardware and feed store. A high desert community.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 9:39:51 AM PST, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:



Seeing individual boards on Single Sheathed cars

Andy Carlson
 

Note that coupled to the right of WP 8078 is another 8051 series car. These cars were somewhat unique in that the lumber door was located in the 'B' end. The vertical shaft brake allowed plenty of room, so I suppose other cars of the same era could have been this way as well.

One use of photos, such as this one, is in viewing the relative use of good milled wood back then. Flat grain wood was a lesser premium than vertical grain wood, but back in those days the old growth timber commonly used made flat grain wood a much higher quality than the common young growth wood milled today.

Notice that the grooves on this elderly car are still quite tight. What delineates the boards is more the opening of the face of the grains due to flat wood's greater vulnerability to weathering. This is something that toolmaking would be challenged to duplicate--I think that this would be better replicated with painting.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

 


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Steve SANDIFER
 

1910-1931:

Mineral Brown – sides, ends, roofs, doors, underframes and trucks on repainted cars.

Black – underframes and trucks on new cars, route card boards.

 

1931-1951

Mineral Brown: sides, ends, and doors, underframes and trucks on repainted cars; wood sheathed roofs, wood running boards, edges of flooring at door openings, roof hatches on convertible stock cars.

Black: underframes and trucks on new cars only, route card boards (not on all cars).

Black Anti-slip – steel or metal sheathed roofs, steel running boards on repainted cars.

 

1951-1980

Mineral brown – sides, ends (most cars) and doors; underframes and trucks on repainted cars, wood sheathed roofs, wood running boards, steel running boards (repainted cars); ends of flooring at door openings, roof hatches on convertible stock cars.

Black: underframes and trucks (new cars only); route card boards (only in the early 50s, not on all cars).

Anti-slip mineral brown: steel or metal-sheathed roofs. Began in 1951 but black or redish brown granules continued to be used on some cars for several years. Anti-slip was discontinued in the late 50s/early 60s because trainmen seldom rode the car tops when in movement.

 

1940-47 – Santa Fe System Maps

1947-58 – Ship & Travel

 

Through 1937:  A.T.&S.F.

1938-1943 : A.T.S.F

1944+: ATSF

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

There are many Santa Fe experts that can confirm this but I have felt that the black roofs came into play around the mid 40's.  I have builders photos of the war emergency box car with rhe mineral brown roof.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Scott <repairman87@...>

Date: 11/22/20 7:57 AM (GMT-10:00)

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Well, this one has a mineral red roof on it and a 1948 re-weigh. I guess I have been painting them wrong all this time which is disappointing.  I thought they still had black roofs then.  Certainly make painting then easier I suppose. 

Scott McDonald 


Missouri & North Arkansas Boxcar

Jim Gates
 

This is a very poor resolution photograph:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12293485546/in/photostream/

But is that part of a Missouri & North Arkansas boxcar on the right?

Jim Gates


Re: Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Yeah, that car too . . .

 

And that after this list’s members have discussed and discussed and plain ol’ cussed the oversize gaps in most DS wood car sides.  Are we only talking to ourselves here?

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

And not just single sheathed cars. Compare the HO and real close ups of DS cars from my attachments.

 

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 

 

On Saturday, November 21, 2020, 10:26:54 AM PST, Claus Schlund \ > wrote:

 

 

Hi Schuyler and List members,

 

Maybe this tells us something about how our single sheathed models should look?!?

 

Claus Schlund

 

 


Re: Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Something I’ve thought for a long time.  I mean, the Accurail car with the extreme wood grain is great, but also so identifiable as “another one of those models,” as to be boring after a while (Sorry, Dennis).

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Hi Schuyler and List members,

 

Maybe this tells us something about how our single sheathed models should look?!?

 

Claus Schlund

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:24 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Better than that, I saved a copy of the expanded image and zoomed in on that.  I >CAN< see some indication of joints but it simply was not “for sure” for me.

 

Thanks to the respondents for the clarity.

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Did you click on the expand icon before zooming?  When I do that I can see the cracks between the individual boards.  Here’s a snippet:

 

Rob 

 

On Nov 21, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

 

Even though I’ve zoomed in quite a ways, could someone confirm my impression that this is a wood-sheathed car?

 

The door’s wood, but I am not completely sure that the car side is wood.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 11:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

 

Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1923.

The car's reporting marks are repeated on the right end.

Although not legible, there is a car inspection card above the right wheel of the left truck. 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Jack Mullen
 

I also think this is a black roof.  There's a significant contrast between the tone of the vertical side extension and the overlapping edge of the roof panels. The contrast is pretty clear on the left half of the car, but obscured by light colored weathering to the right of the door.

Jack Mullen


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Steve SANDIFER
 

I don’t know that this photo tells us what color the roof is. The official date where roofs began to be painted mineral brown was 1951, but some continued to be repainted black for another year or two.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 11:58 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Well, this one has a mineral red roof on it and a 1948 re-weigh. I guess I have been painting them wrong all this time which is disappointing.  I thought they still had black roofs then.  Certainly make painting then easier I suppose. 

Scott McDonald 


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

There are many Santa Fe experts that can confirm this but I have felt that the black roofs came into play around the mid 40's.  I have builders photos of the war emergency box car with rhe mineral brown roof.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Scott <repairman87@...>
Date: 11/22/20 7:57 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Well, this one has a mineral red roof on it and a 1948 re-weigh. I guess I have been painting them wrong all this time which is disappointing.  I thought they still had black roofs then.  Certainly make painting then easier I suppose. 

Scott McDonald 


1956 ORER has been sold

 

1956 ORER has been sold.  Thank you!  HTG

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