Date   

Images of WARREN tank cas at Olsen Co, Bridgeport, Texas, in 1958

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Images of WARREN tank cars at Olsen Co, Bridgeport, Texas, in 1958
 
 
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 


SP tank cars, Jennings, LA, 1909-1915

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Image of SP tank cars, Jennings, LA, 1909-1915
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

radiodial868
 


Thanks, Steve, for a great summary.  Carefully saved this for future reference.

Schuyler

Me too, Steve, this is nice! Too bad I didn't have this summary this past dozen or so years I've been building Santa Fe resin kits. Westerfield and Sunshine & F&C kit prototype color history were all over the map and many times conflicting.  Looks like I have some paint and lettering touchups to do now.
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Missouri & North Arkansas Boxcar

Eric Lombard
 

Jim, It appears to have the unique pattern of a Mather car in the end panel of the side. if it is M&NA, and is a Mather car, then it would be M&NA 2600-2649, Mather cars, active 7-1934 to late 1939.

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL


On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 1:49 PM Jim Gates via groups.io <jim.gates=ymail.com@groups.io> wrote:
This is a very poor resolution photograph:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12293485546/in/photostream/

But is that part of a Missouri & North Arkansas boxcar on the right?

Jim Gates






Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

al_brown03
 

"K" is the model of the Royal regulator. There's also a type F, I think. The applications I've seen were to AB brakes, although I think they'd work on schedule K brakes if so applied (Royal regulators are a form of slack adjuster).

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


partial image of steel reefer ART 47933

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I thought some might enjoy this partial image of steel reefer ART 47933. While the image was taken in 1965, I suspect the car was in service during this list's time period of interest.
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Paul Doggett
 

Schuyler 

It’s got AB brakes Royal K is the type of adjuster.  K brakes where outlawed in interchange service in or by 1953 it kept getting pushed back,

Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 23 Nov 2020, at 15:53, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:



Thank you, Brian.  Prior to the photo I’d not noted the legend “ROYAL K BRK REGL” on the side of the car.  This is obviously 1948 or later, but K brakes?  Were they not outlawed by then?  (I admit to not reading all preceding posts about this interesting car!)

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 9:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

<image001.png>

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thank you, Brian.  Prior to the photo I’d not noted the legend “ROYAL K BRK REGL” on the side of the car.  This is obviously 1948 or later, but K brakes?  Were they not outlawed by then?  (I admit to not reading all preceding posts about this interesting car!)

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 9:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - 1940 era

Steve and Barb Hile
 

The January 1954 edition of the ORER lists 150 cars in the series 441000-441499  with 67 having extreme outside width of 10’7” while the remainder were 11’.  All have 6 foot door openings.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 2:06 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - 1940 era

 

In case anyone else is building one of the F&C kit no.6650 models and wonders what decals are appropriate, I eventually made a breakthrough this evening.  I have not exhausted possible CV prototypes, but haven’t found one yet either.  But in the GTW fleet, I found a photo of a car that has approximately the same characteristics: GTW441304, of the  441311- 441499.  Ian Cranstone’s roster information says these were converted from the x583702-584701 series in 1940.   The entry reads: “ x583702-584701 series /40, 441311-441499 ret.? /41, some re#586500-586999 series? /46-/47.”  

 

The 583702 series were described as series 2 cars in Stafford Swaine’s article in Railmodel Journal Feb 2001 titled “Modeling 40-Foot CN Steel-Frame Box Cars, Part III, Type E Cars In HO Scale From Steam Shack Kits”.  They originally had the end doors and a 10’ 6” side door opening.   The conversion to the 441311 series shows the side doors reduced to 6’, (not the 7’ called out and modelled in the F&C kit).   So this isn’t a perfect fit with the model, but since I have it 90% complete, I have to land on something.  

 

I’m not entirely sure what “ret.? /41" means.  The 441311 series lasted though to 1970.

 

Cars in the 586500-586999 series conversions of 1946/47 were identified ins Swaine’s article as conversions from series 1, 2 and 3 cars, and shown as still having 12’ side doors.  

 

I also found a photo of 465142 which, to my eye, may have a 7’ door.   But in the roster info Ian Cranstone has listed, the series is shown as 6’ doors.    Other photos from that series have no end doors.  So its a bit of a mixed bag.

465000-465249

XM

Boxcar

250

7/1934-4/1973

40.6

9.0

6.0

3098

PSC

12/23-1/24

Stl. frame. x581000-581999 series /33-/34 (465186-465249 vacant?).

 

I have more work to do sorting this model’s prototype out, but I’m leaning toward doing a model of a car in the 441311 series and assume there were 7’ doors in that group.

 

Not ideal prototype modelling with a resin kit!!

 

Rob


Re: GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - what era?

Andy Laurent
 

Rob,
Double doors - 10' opening, according to the ORER.
Andy


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Steve, for a great summary.  Carefully saved this for future reference.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 2:51 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

1910-1931:

Mineral Brown – sides, ends, roofs, doors, underframes and trucks on repainted cars.

Black – underframes and trucks on new cars, route card boards.

 

1931-1951

Mineral Brown: sides, ends, and doors, underframes and trucks on repainted cars; wood sheathed roofs, wood running boards, edges of flooring at door openings, roof hatches on convertible stock cars.

Black: underframes and trucks on new cars only, route card boards (not on all cars).

Black Anti-slip – steel or metal sheathed roofs, steel running boards on repainted cars.

 

1951-1980

Mineral brown – sides, ends (most cars) and doors; underframes and trucks on repainted cars, wood sheathed roofs, wood running boards, steel running boards (repainted cars); ends of flooring at door openings, roof hatches on convertible stock cars.

Black: underframes and trucks (new cars only); route card boards (only in the early 50s, not on all cars).

Anti-slip mineral brown: steel or metal-sheathed roofs. Began in 1951 but black or redish brown granules continued to be used on some cars for several years. Anti-slip was discontinued in the late 50s/early 60s because trainmen seldom rode the car tops when in movement.

 

1940-47 – Santa Fe System Maps

1947-58 – Ship & Travel

 

Through 1937:  A.T.&S.F.

1938-1943 : A.T.S.F

1944+: ATSF

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

There are many Santa Fe experts that can confirm this but I have felt that the black roofs came into play around the mid 40's.  I have builders photos of the war emergency box car with rhe mineral brown roof.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Scott <repairman87@...>

Date: 11/22/20 7:57 AM (GMT-10:00)

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Well, this one has a mineral red roof on it and a 1948 re-weigh. I guess I have been painting them wrong all this time which is disappointing.  I thought they still had black roofs then.  Certainly make painting then easier I suppose. 

Scott McDonald 


Re: GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - 1940 era

Robert kirkham
 

In case anyone else is building one of the F&C kit no.6650 models and wonders what decals are appropriate, I eventually made a breakthrough this evening.  I have not exhausted possible CV prototypes, but haven’t found one yet either.  But in the GTW fleet, I found a photo of a car that has approximately the same characteristics: GTW441304, of the  441311- 441499.  Ian Cranstone’s roster information says these were converted from the x583702-584701 series in 1940.   The entry reads: “ x583702-584701 series /40, 441311-441499 ret.? /41, some re#586500-586999 series? /46-/47.”  

The 583702 series were described as series 2 cars in Stafford Swaine’s article in Railmodel Journal Feb 2001 titled “Modeling 40-Foot CN Steel-Frame Box Cars, Part III, Type E Cars In HO Scale From Steam Shack Kits”.  They originally had the end doors and a 10’ 6” side door opening.   The conversion to the 441311 series shows the side doors reduced to 6’, (not the 7’ called out and modelled in the F&C kit).   So this isn’t a perfect fit with the model, but since I have it 90% complete, I have to land on something.  

I’m not entirely sure what “ret.? /41" means.  The 441311 series lasted though to 1970.

Cars in the 586500-586999 series conversions of 1946/47 were identified ins Swaine’s article as conversions from series 1, 2 and 3 cars, and shown as still having 12’ side doors.  

I also found a photo of 465142 which, to my eye, may have a 7’ door.   But in the roster info Ian Cranstone has listed, the series is shown as 6’ doors.    Other photos from that series have no end doors.  So its a bit of a mixed bag.

465000-465249

XM

Boxcar

250

7/1934-4/1973

40.6

9.0

6.0

3098

PSC

12/23-1/24

Stl. frame. x581000-581999 series /33-/34 (465186-465249 vacant?).


I have more work to do sorting this model’s prototype out, but I’m leaning toward doing a model of a car in the 441311 series and assume there were 7’ doors in that group.

Not ideal prototype modelling with a resin kit!!

Rob


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Jim Gates
 

The last Bx-12's in revenue service were in 1974. So certainly AB brakes. I believe most of the received steel sheathing.

Jim Gates

On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 10:07:22 PM CST, Todd Horton via groups.io <toddchorton@...> wrote:


Great photo, did these cars get AB brakes and survive till?

Todd Horton


On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 09:14:49 PM EST, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Todd Horton
 

Great photo, did these cars get AB brakes and survive till?

Todd Horton


On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 09:14:49 PM EST, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

hubert mask
 

 FYI , I offer that decal for the ACF and Pullman car.  100 years.

Nice photo.

Hubert Mask
Mask Island Decals Inc.


On Nov 22, 2020, at 9:12 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:

The full resolution file:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=46500&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--
<image001.png>
Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:30 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

 

Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/46500/rec/40

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Built 1951 by Pullman-Standard.

Note "New Roof" stencil at upper right hand corner.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

<image001.png>


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

 

The full resolution file:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=46500&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:30 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

 

Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/46500/rec/40

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Built 1951 by Pullman-Standard.

Note "New Roof" stencil at upper right hand corner.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: 1956 ORER has been sold

Armand Premo
 



On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 1:53 PM Hugh Guillaume via groups.io <mguill1224=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
1956 ORER has been sold.  Thank you!  HTG


Re: Seeing individual boards on Single Sheathed cars

np328
 

  Andy,
            here is a link to a Rock Island car photographed by John Vashon at the Minneapolis Pillsbury "A" Mill. 
https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsa.8a04504/       and the photo at a much higher resolution   https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04504v.jpg 

Gaps between the boards?  To quote Roger Rabbit - Pleeeeeaasse.    I'm not sure if it is a mastic oozing out however it is clearly proud of the surface.  Not gaps.  

Railroad house cars have sheathing to protect the commodity, as soon as they gets gaps or are warped to any great degree, the cars become practically worthless and generally speaking shippers would reject them.  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Jim Dick - Roseville, MN 


Re: Photo: NP Automobile Boxcar 6181 (1934)

np328
 

Schuyler writes regarding oversize gaps on modeled cars: Are we only talking to ourselves here? 
      
I think that it is very possible that we are. And then there could be the same who feel that even this conversation is - nuts! - to lean upon researchers "bell curve"    https://www.simplypsychology.org/normal-distribution.html 

The NP 6000-6999 series cars built by General American Car Company in 1923 were the NP's desire to get a larger share than they had of the automobile market. I have written prior that when the NP had Detroit area traffic agents made inquiries on how the NP might get more traffic, they found that they needed to have empty cars at the ready locally to the auto plants.  GACC was approached and asked if the NP could have cars delivered ASAP and GACC stated that they currently had jigs in place for SP cars of generally the same design and would the NP accept SP clones? Though the NP and SP were on quite amicable terms with (with the President of the NP often spending lengthy holiday visits with the SP President) the NP Mechanical department wanted a more substantial floor which had letters back and forth to the point GACC stated that a decision had to be made or else the NP could go back to the end of the order line which was 9 months at best, more likely a year. 
       About 10 years or so after they were built, some of the cars (500) of the then 998 cars were rebuilt into the 30000 series with single six foot door instead of the original door and a half six and three foot doors.  Many of these cars soldiered on well through this lists end date BTW as appliance cars, grain cars, general service going all over.  
   
     I had a conversation with a resin caster while turning over a mailing tube of plans on the 6000/30000 series NP cars about 6-10 years ago at CCB and made sure to mention my concerns about "oversized gaps or overly distressed and warped boards".  Something, after decades of reading letters of the Mechanical department and elsewhere, that stated the NP wood sheathed cars were generally maintained in better shape than the industry as a whole and I relayed that to this person. 
      While a completely cordial conversation, the reply as I recall had something to do with the total market in that there were sales to the toy train modeling aspect (my words, not his) and that this part of his sales which (paraphrasing his words) were people whom he doubted would ever assemble his kits however were fascinated by how the model looked in their display. And to these people - seeing oversize gaps and deep graining was actually part of the appeal.  He gave me what he felt was an estimate of this group of his sales and said (paraphrasing again) as long as they put bread on his plate he was not going to go out of his way offend them. I'll go on to say that I think the person and the company are very good folks and have added many, many, good models to our model railroad realm.    

     The corollary is of course that folks who desire greater fidelity are in part, held captive by these people however well meaning, do not care, none the less make purchases in the margins.   
And of course higher fidelity has lead to some price increases - which to me only makes sense.
Quality invariably costs more, I accept that.
However in this list can be found opinions of those who feel otherwise regarding cost increases.                                                                               Jim Dick - Roseville, MN  

 

 




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