Date   

Re: HO Tank Car Lid

Tony Thompson
 

Allen Cain wrote:

As the volume (V) increases as the tank is emptied the pressure (P) must decrease proportionally creating a vacuum to balance the equation.  This can and has collapsed many storage tanks.  Not sure if a rail tank car is strong enough to avoid collapsing as a full tank is drained to empty?

You mean like the one shown below? This one was steam cleaned and the manway closed with the tank hot. As it cooled and the pressure inside decreased, voila!

Tony Thompson



Re: Photo: New Haven Boxcar 30024 (1948)

gary laakso
 

I assume that the double door boxcar parallel to the NH is a Santa Fe because the doors do not match.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 10:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: New Haven Boxcar 30024 (1948)

 

Photo: New Haven Boxcar 30024 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/67502/rec/98

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Reporting marks are on the right side of the car.

Car built in 1941.

Switching tag ("52") on door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - 1940 era

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for pointing that out Steve.  It’s an interesting clue. The Jan. 1953 ORER includes 151 cars, and not TT spells out which of those had the wider and narrower extreme width.  I assume its an indication of the door latch mechanism, or ladders, but not at all clear,

This morning I reviewed the ’53 ORER for 7’ door steel frame cars in the CV roster - again - nothing shows up.  

Rob 

On Nov 23, 2020, at 7:44 AM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

The January 1954 edition of the ORER lists 150 cars in the series 441000-441499  with 67 having extreme outside width of 10’7” while the remainder were 11’.  All have 6 foot door openings.
 
Steve Hile
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 2:06 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GTW 583200 series autocar with 7' door - 1940 era
 
In case anyone else is building one of the F&C kit no.6650 models and wonders what decals are appropriate, I eventually made a breakthrough this evening.  I have not exhausted possible CV prototypes, but haven’t found one yet either.  But in the GTW fleet, I found a photo of a car that has approximately the same characteristics: GTW441304, of the  441311- 441499.  Ian Cranstone’s roster information says these were converted from the x583702-584701 series in 1940.   The entry reads: “ x583702-584701 series /40, 441311-441499 ret.? /41, some re#586500-586999 series? /46-/47.”  
 
The 583702 series were described as series 2 cars in Stafford Swaine’s article in Railmodel Journal Feb 2001 titled “Modeling 40-Foot CN Steel-Frame Box Cars, Part III, Type E Cars In HO Scale From Steam Shack Kits”.  They originally had the end doors and a 10’ 6” side door opening.   The conversion to the 441311 series shows the side doors reduced to 6’, (not the 7’ called out and modelled in the F&C kit).   So this isn’t a perfect fit with the model, but since I have it 90% complete, I have to land on something.  
 
I’m not entirely sure what “ret.? /41" means.  The 441311 series lasted though to 1970.
 
Cars in the 586500-586999 series conversions of 1946/47 were identified ins Swaine’s article as conversions from series 1, 2 and 3 cars, and shown as still having 12’ side doors.  
 
I also found a photo of 465142 which, to my eye, may have a 7’ door.   But in the roster info Ian Cranstone has listed, the series is shown as 6’ doors.    Other photos from that series have no end doors.  So its a bit of a mixed bag.

465000-465249

XM

Boxcar

250

7/1934-4/1973

40.6

9.0

6.0

3098

PSC

12/23-1/24

Stl. frame. x581000-581999 series /33-/34 (465186-465249 vacant?).

 
I have more work to do sorting this model’s prototype out, but I’m leaning toward doing a model of a car in the 441311 series and assume there were 7’ doors in that group.
 
Not ideal prototype modelling with a resin kit!!
 
Rob



Re: Images of WARREN tank cas at Olsen Co, Bridgeport, Texas, in 1958

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Isn't it amazing what a red filter will do with clouds?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 11:13 AM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
Images of WARREN tank cars at Olsen Co, Bridgeport, Texas, in 1958
 
 
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 


Re: HO Tank Car Lid

Allen Cain
 

Having worked unloading coal tar pitch tank cars I recall having to open the vent valve in the dome or else the car could literally collapse as the pitch was drained out of the bottom fitting, if it would flow at all.

Draining the car increases the "air" pocket volumn above the fluid creating a vacuum that increases as the liquid level drops putting stress on the car.

PV=nRT

As the volume (V) increases as the tank is emptied the pressure (P) must decrease proportionally creating a vacuum to balance the equation.  This can and has collapsed many storage tanks.  Not sure if a rail tank car is strong enough to avoid collapsing as a full tank is drained to empty?

In the case of a pressured gas car, the risk of the positive pressure dropping into the negative range is low as the tank was pressurized prior to unloading.

Yes, I am a nerd.

Alen Cain



Re: Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Rock Island Boxcar 22335 (1952)
A photo from the Denver Public Library:
Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.
Built 1951 by Pullman-Standard.
Note "New Roof" stencil at upper right hand corner.

    As this is a PS-1 still displaying its "NEW" stencil, surely  the "New Roof" notation must refer to the original roof??

Tony Thompson




Re: HO Tank Car Lid

Todd Sullivan
 

Chuck,

True for most kind of tank cars and cargoes, but not true for pressure tank cars and acid tank cars.  They all required top unloading.  For LPG, Ammonia, Chlorine, because they were gasses shipped in liquid form under pressure, so the easy way to unload is to attach hoses to fittings in the dome/manway.  For acids, the tanks did not have bottom outlets to prevent leaks and damage to the outlets.  Think of cleaning up a derailment with super sulfuric or phosphoric acid gushing from a broken fitting.

Todd Sullivan


Photo: New Haven Boxcar 30024 (1948)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: New Haven Boxcar 30024 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/67502/rec/98

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Reporting marks are on the right side of the car.

Car built in 1941.

Switching tag ("52") on door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: HO Tank Car Lid

Jeff Coleman
 

Tony
Excellent blog on pressure cars. Only thing I'd add is the valve arrangement varies per commodity. 

Jeff Coleman

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:39 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
     If you're interested in the loading or unloading process for high-pressure tank cars, I have written a blog post about that, including a bunch of prototype photos. If you're interested, the link is below.


Tony Thompson




Photo: PRR Double Door Boxcar 62448 X31B (1955)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Double Door Boxcar 62448 X31B (1955)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/62272/rec/3

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Trucks have combination leaf and coil springs.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: HO Tank Car Lid

Tony Thompson
 

     If you're interested in the loading or unloading process for high-pressure tank cars, I have written a blog post about that, including a bunch of prototype photos. If you're interested, the link is below.


Tony Thompson




Re: HO Tank Car Lid

Tony Thompson
 

Charles Peck wrote:

One might keep in mind that many products would never have the manway 
hatch opened except for cleaning.  Most liquid products can be loaded and unloaded
through pipes and hoses attached to access valves. An open hatchway is 
a potential source of contamination.

   It's not a manway on a pressure car. The cover is opened for access to the valves and hose connections.
    But on non-pressure cars, the manway cover IS opened for loading, and opened for unloading to access the valve wheel, or for top unloading.

Tony Thompson




Re: HO Tank Car Lid

Tony Thompson
 

Todd Sullivan wrote:

You should be able to saw the 'lid' off an Athearn 'chemical' tank car (cheap donor) and add it to an Atlas 11,000 gallon pressure tank car model.  If you have one of those super thin modeling saws, you could probably just cut the top off the Atlas model's manway (dome) and glue it back on in the open position.  I know of no HO tank car that has an operating hinged lid.

  Better try and use the Atlas over. I don't think you can mix the two. The Athearn one is considerably oversize, while the Atlas valve bonnet is scale size.

Tony Thompson




Re: SP tank cars, Jennings, LA, 1909-1915

Tony Thompson
 

Claus Schlund  wrote:

Image of SP tank cars, Jennings, LA, 1909-1915
 

  How's that for spillage? I like to weather tank cars but haven't gotten this far <g>.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Peter.

Schuyler

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of peteraue
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 1:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

The car on the photograph has AB brakes. You can clearly see the transversal mounted reservoir on the photograph with the 3-1-48 brake service stencil. This type of mounting was common practice on Santa Fe freight cars.
Peter Aue


Re: Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

peteraue
 

The car on the photograph has AB brakes. You can clearly see the
transversal mounted reservoir on the photograph with the 3-1-48 brake
service stencil.  This type of mounting was common practice on Santa Fe
freight cars.
Peter Aue


Re: HO Tank Car Lid

Charles Peck
 

One might keep in mind that many products would never have the manway 
hatch opened except for cleaning.  Most liquid products can be loaded and unloaded
through pipes and hoses attached to access valves. An open hatchway is 
a potential source of contamination.
Chuck Peck

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 11:39 AM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Allen,

You should be able to saw the 'lid' off an Athearn 'chemical' tank car (cheap donor) and add it to an Atlas 11,000 gallon pressure tank car model.  If you have one of those super thin modeling saws, you could probably just cut the top off the Atlas model's manway (dome) and glue it back on in the open position.  I know of no HO tank car that has an operating hinged lid.

Todd Sullivan.


Re: HO Tank Car Lid

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Inside the hinged top are the control valves for loading and unloading.  The hose connections enter that casing through holes in the side of the casing to connect with the valves there.  Note that there are two connections required to properly empty the car.  See this interesting photo

 

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Allen Cain
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 10:33 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] HO Tank Car Lid

 

The picture of the Warren Tank Car being filled inspired me to model a car being filled.

Does anyone offer an HO tank car top with a lid that opens to model a car being filled?  Probably not using the right terms but you get my meaning I hope.

Would be interested in one for either gas, oil, propane or acid tank cars.

Thanks,

Allen Cain


Re: MKT model from a Accurail SS box car kit

Robert kirkham
 

I haven’t come across anything yet.  I see cars in number series 95xxx, 96xxx and 77xxx.  I’m not sure of the exact start and end numbers in each car series,  and do not know who the original builders were.  The changes I see:

Reinforcement straps in panels 1 and 9:
- the diagonal straps at the car ends sit on top/over the side edge of the car end, not tucked inside.  
- Some photos show the lower diagonal is nearly double the width; other times a regular width.
- the the top diagonal is typical - slightly less wide than the “normal width” lower diagonal, and much narrower than the “wide width” lower diagonal
- there are cars with a horizontal strap at the high of the end panel seam - have not found it on a 77xxx series car so far.

Bulge plates: - I see them in all panels, so would add them in panels 1 and 9

Gusset at side sill/end panel - needs beefing up on the Accurail car side.

Diagonal braces - toughest problem on these models.  The diagonals are attached to the vertical braces with a gap at the bottom. And the outer face of the Z braces is trimmed square, making it hang below the bottom of the side sills.  Thinking you can use a thin overlay to model the out face hanging lower than the side sill, but the gaps . . . would require heavy carving and all new diagonals, so may be better ignored for this kitbash.

Doors: some are top-hung; others have rollers on the bottom.  Some have the horizontal steel brace at mid height, some have it closer to 1/3 from the bottom.   I think one variant that’s easy is to use a Tichy door.   Or carve off and re-do the horizontal brace.  But the Accurail door is fine on a lot of cars.  The 96xxx series cars usually have the lower brace, but I found one image on a 96xxx series car with mid height brace.  I notice the upper door hangers vary;  in some it looks like the small triangular gussets at the top corners of the doors carry up into the door track.  In others, the Accurail rollers are used.  Sorry - can’t recall names, and not taking the time to look them up this morning.

Door stops are at top (end of door track) and bottom.  

Ladders - the usual, LOL.  The bottom run on the side ladder is a drop grab; the others straight.  It's the same on the truncated end ladders - bottom grab is the drop type.   All 
other grab irons appear to be straight, except the two at the end sills and the one on the right side of each end, attached to the 4th rib.  They are drop grabs.  

Rob 

   

On Nov 23, 2020, at 8:17 AM, Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:

Does anyone know of any info on this cars in the RP Cyc? I have Ted's RMC essentials article, but there seems to be differences in these cars. I'd like to find the ose info I could on the ones matching the Accurail car the closest.
As always, thanks for any advice,
Clark Propst


Re: HO Tank Car Lid

Todd Sullivan
 

Allen,

You should be able to saw the 'lid' off an Athearn 'chemical' tank car (cheap donor) and add it to an Atlas 11,000 gallon pressure tank car model.  If you have one of those super thin modeling saws, you could probably just cut the top off the Atlas model's manway (dome) and glue it back on in the open position.  I know of no HO tank car that has an operating hinged lid.

Todd Sullivan.

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