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Re: Frisco “Sawtooth” boxcar photo - North/south, east/west longitude/latitude
Dave Parker
The Oxford dictionary definition of longitudinal is (1) running lengthwise rather than across (not "length"), (2) relating to longitude; measured from east to west (sorry Schuyler, you're off by 90 degrees).
The comparable definition of latitudinal is "relating to the position of a place north or south of the earth's equator". IOW, latitudinal does not seem to have a non-geographical definition in modern usage. But, it implicitly means perpendicular to longitudinal, which is why I have no real problem with the MCB/ARA/AAR usage for those short running boards at each end of many house cars. It is what it is. -- Dave Parker Swall Meadows, CA
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Re: Ann Arbor Accurail kitbash
Looks great Rob. You mentioned a 3D drawing, do you plan to offer via Shapeways or other store? Please be sure to shar completed pix.
Chris R.
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Re: Ann Arbor Accurail kitbash
Clark Propst
Very nice job Rob! Looking forward to seeing the completed model Clark Propst
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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How thin can you go?
Andy Carlson
I have my list of the 4 best items to have blessed model freight car building as follows, in no particular order: 1) Evergreen styrene strips 2) Dial calipers 3) Resins, such as polyurethane 4) RPM meets and online information Talking about resin-- the ability to take something as viscous as motor oil and pour into a mold cavity surrounded by rubber and get a solid Westerfield part is pure great science! The ability to show detail to amazingly small and thin sizes is remarkable, as well. This ability of going down to really thin sizes is both remarkable and a bane. All flash on a resin part is what is left behind when the casting process's smooth backing for the casting gets wet, which it must. The wetness will harden, as resins will and after the removal from the mold the flash on the part is a remnant of this wetted back side of the smoothing backing tool (this is what makes for the really smooth backing to flat cast parts). Though removing flash with a knife is often the technique used, it does leave behind a slightly raised portion which left on a car side, no harm because that portion of casting is on the back and inside of the part. The ends, however, rely on its flat finish to cap the pair of car sides and with flash a bit thicker than average this will cause a relic viewable between the end's edge and the car side. To eliminate this issue, sanding the end casting on a plate of glass until the flash is gone and the end's edge is straight is the preferred way to prepare these end castings for assembly. This flash can, at times, work to our advantage. Not often in resin car building do we face the engineering problems of scale thickness. A good example is for running board edges. A wood running board is about 0.020" thick in HO scale. Fortunately, we don't need to model Dreadnaught ends to scale thickness, as the inside view, particularly the inside edge view is buried inside the car body. An issue is when we come to Dreadnaught ends which are viewable from both sides, such as a gondola end. The thickness of a 5/16" thick piece of stamped steel in the real world equates to under 0.004" in HO scale. That is about double the thickness of human hair and a real challenge to injection mold a cross section that thin in HO. With the understanding of how thin wet resin can get gives us an opportunity to use that to our advantage. I have an example of how thin we can get with resin. An example is with a recently cast Dreadnaught end I have for a gondola drop end. My 2 mold pieces can be closed up to each other to allow very thin gaps. This end has about 0.004" thickness, and any attempt to get to even thinner cross sections is unnecessary at this reached closeness. So here is a picture of a resin HO end which is probably thinner than any commercial plastic car's end made. Outside view with the ribs facing outwards. Inside view with the ribs going inwards. You all do well, -Andy Carlson Ojai CA
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Re: Ann Arbor Accurail kitbash
gtws00
Looking very nice so far
Thanks for sharing George Toman
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Re: Another means of adding chalk markings
Benjamin Hom
Lou Adler wrote: "Not having any knowledge of chalk mark content, what would be typical information conveyed by a chalk mark? Modeling 1955 means that I need to add them to some of my rolling stock." A bit of everything - routing instructions, blocking instructions, unloading instructions, car inspector marks, bad order markings, and rarely (especially compared to today), graffiti. Ben Hom
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Re: Frisco “Sawtooth” boxcar photo - North/south, east/west longitude/latitude
Schuyler Larrabee
As I thought for quite a while, Guy, but I’ve come around to embracing the harder-to-say “latitudinal” running board. As you say it means width, and the latitudinal boards run across the WIDTH of the car, vs. the length.
Think of the car as a map. North and south, that’s longitude. East and west is latitude.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of radiodial868
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2020 11:22 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Frisco “Sawtooth” boxcar photo
On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 08:33 AM, Guy Wilber wrote:
Ha!
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Re: Ann Arbor Accurail kitbash
Looks great Rob, excellent build Fenton
On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 11:47 AM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote: Thought I'd post an updated photo of my kitbash of one of the Ann Arbor 73750 series boxcars. It uses the 4300 series Accurail boxcar, with modified door rollers, top plate, and strap bracing on the end panels. The Yarmouth Hutchins roof, a wood running board and their 16" spacing 7 rung ladders (modified for the car ends) were also used. The ends were scratch built (before I did the 3d drawing of the replacement end). --
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Re: Ann Arbor Accurail kitbash
Robert kirkham
Trial and error! LOL. Well, I filed and sanded down the end to a flat surface, and filled in the mounting holes for the brake step. This is fairly easy with the original roof off. (I removed the roof as I wanted a wider roof overhang to match the prototype.) Once the ends were flat, I 3d printed the 4 bulges. 2 or 3 holes were drilled through the end to allow gluing the bulges with CA from behind. The bulges were tacked into place with Tamiya solvent (which won’t hold the printed parts long term), and then moved around until they looked about right, then the CA added from inside the car body. A strip of .005” styrene was solvent cemented across for the panel seem. Archer rivets applied per the photos.
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It's been a learning process both in methods and in accuracy to prototype. I think I might do a better job with assembly next time - one end isn’t precisely identical to the other. And the end details are wrong in a number of ways, which is why I have ended up drawing complete ends that correct errors. But, since the model was already well along, I decided to complete it and save the corrected ends for another project. Rob
On Dec 3, 2020, at 9:09 AM, Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote: Nice job Rob. I would like to hear how you scratch built the ends. Thanks
Chuck Cover Santa Fe, NM
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] LV 9951 series, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)
Thanks, Elden. It’s a simple but impressive car.
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Sadly, I have no more info. I built the car years ago pretty much right from the RedBall instructions. Only later did I find a photo of the prototype, IIRC in a Train Shed cyclopedia … it’s the same photo as started this thread. I remember replacing the 36” wheelsets in the passenger trucks with 33” sets to get the height to come out acceptable. The only thing I’ve done since is convert it to Kadee couplers. There’s no underbody detail at all. Fortunately the topsides of the prototype are rather simple too, so the lack of a lot of detail is correct. If I find out much more I’ll probably be forced to rebuild it! :-(( Dan Mitchell ==========
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 8, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)
vapeurchapelon
Hello Bruce,
beautyful car! Are these trucks the good old Athearn or something different? (They seem to look sharper but also lack brake shoes.)
Many greetings
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 03. Dezember 2020 um 18:24 Uhr
Von: "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...> An: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Betreff: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 8, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated) Brian, Folks,
Yes, I did make some changes to the F&C kit that are detailed in the files of the PRRPro group. Broadly, these consisted of removing the bumps on the end decks (that resulted from someone copying a C&O Greenville Car Company flat), doing some putty and fill work on the decks, and adding some additional details such as the external brake line, drilling holes on both sides of the car for that line, removing the resin well decks and adding a laser cut wood deck (AMB), and adding rivets to the steel deck.
The resin sill steps on this car are stupidly fragile, so I am in the process of making brass steps.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 10:51 AM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 8, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated) Not the F33 requires several changes if using the F&C kit as enumerated by Bruce Smith if I recall. I hope it was Bruce. It a reason mine is still languishing in the box.
Brian J. Carlson
On Dec 3, 2020, at 11:43 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
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Re: Another means of adding chalk markings
Lou,
Lots of information, much of it in shorthand!
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Louis Adler <lsainnwa@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 9:16 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Another means of adding chalk markings Not having any knowledge of chalk mark content, what would be typical information conveyed by a chalk mark? Modeling 1955 means that I need to add them to some of my rolling stock. TIA
Lou Adler
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Re: Another means of adding chalk markings
Tony Thompson
Anything and everything a switchman needed to know: track numbers, outbound train numbers, consignee, repair or cleaning needs, date, time, MT or loaded, etc. Problem is, it’s mostly in local code or abbreviations, so you can’t really decode it. But that’s good news too: write almost anything!
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Tony Thompson
On Dec 3, 2020, at 7:16 AM, Louis Adler <lsainnwa@...> wrote:
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 8, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)
Brian, Folks,
Yes, I did make some changes to the F&C kit that are detailed in the files of the PRRPro group. Broadly, these consisted of removing the bumps on the end decks (that resulted from someone copying a C&O Greenville Car Company flat), doing some putty and fill
work on the decks, and adding some additional details such as the external brake line, drilling holes on both sides of the car for that line, removing the resin well decks and adding a laser cut wood deck (AMB), and adding rivets to the steel deck.
The resin sill steps on this car are stupidly fragile, so I am in the process of making brass steps.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 10:51 AM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 8, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated) Not the F33 requires several changes if using the F&C kit as enumerated by Bruce Smith if I recall. I hope it was Bruce. It a reason mine is still languishing in the box.
Brian J. Carlson
On Dec 3, 2020, at 11:43 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
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Re: Another means of adding chalk markings
John Riddell
Lou
Here is an article on chalk marks that may help
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR/general/chalk_it_up.htm
John Riddell
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Re: Ann Arbor Accurail kitbash
Chuck Cover
Nice job Rob. I would like to hear how you scratch built the ends. Thanks
Chuck Cover Santa Fe, NM
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 8, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)
Todd Sullivan
Elden,
Regarding your comments about well flat designs and deciphering ORER entries, in my clerking experience, which included working Car Distributor (essentially the car inventory & supply mgr) for 2 weeks, I found that each industry's traffic manager had a pretty good working knowledge of the cars his company needed on a regular basis. When I received calls requesting empties for loading, the requests were usually very specific down to the individual car or series number. Also, the Car Distributor had a pretty good knowledge of both A) car types ordinarily found on the property (we were a terminal switching outfit) and B) how to decipher the contents of the ORER. As a side note, after working as a clerk in the yard for about 6 months, if you gave me a valid initial and number combination for one of our area RRs, I could give a physical description of the car and what it was normally used for. Todd Sullivan
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] More boring well car stuff pt 8, was: Photo: Reading Well Hole Flat Car 99009 (Undated)
Not the F33 requires several changes if using the F&C kit as enumerated by Bruce Smith if I recall. I hope it was Bruce. It a reason mine is still languishing in the box.
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Brian J. Carlson
On Dec 3, 2020, at 11:43 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
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Re: Ann Arbor Accurail kitbash
Paul Doggett
Rob
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That’s going to look really good when it’s finished. Paul Doggett. England 🏴
On 3 Dec 2020, at 16:47, Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
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Re: Etched brass parts was Re: [RealSTMFC] Frisco “Sawtooth” boxcar photo
radiodial868
If you've ever built any of YMW's runningboard end supports, or the brake step platform, you know how complex, delicate yet strong they are once bent along their little fold lines.
I was thinking something like this little sketch I just threw together on my phone. The blue is the bend lines. The YMW etched bend lines can go either way, so could represent many styles. The 'feet" would be easily tweaked with a needlenose to match any odd roof angle or irregularity encountered. ------------------- RJ Dial Mendocino, CA
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