Date   

Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Ken Vandevoort <apo09324@...>
 

I haven't tried produce bags, but I did learn the hard way that rubber shelf liners will take the paint off of cars.

Ken Vandevoort


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

frograbbit602
 

Gary I am not not a chemist or sure about the various plastics; however, I did use bubble wrap as shown in the one box. I read an article on car damage using the bubble wrap so going back to my old system of cardboard. (Photos) I have also started putting a piece of cardboard between trucks and foam not shown in the photos. I also have purchased cars wrapped in tissue paper that is turning yellow; however, no harm to the plastic. I store resin built freight cars in Athearn boxes due to size as I purchased several hundred years back.

Lester Breuer


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Andy Brusgard <ajb1102@...>
 

After having the original packing foam destroy the custom paint jobs I did on at least six brass locos, I now wrap in paper towels than wrap in inexpensive 11" x 12" plastic storage bags. Than if older foam. I'll toss the fome and wrap with bubble wrap - small bubbles. You can get different size bubbles.  


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Tony Thompson
 

    Gary, I can't answer your question about the produce bags, but what I have found to be very dependable over years of use is ordinary sandwich bags (the kind where you tuck in the flap to close). These protect a model from abrasion on protruding parts like grab irons, and do not seem to interact with the model surface. 

     An HO scale car of 40-ft. or less fits nicely. Of course it takes two of them for 50-ft. cars . . .

Tony Thompson




Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O wagon top covered hoppers

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Group;

 

To add to Jim:

 

There was a group of these cars I remember well, serving the powdered dolomite trade to USSteel’s mills in the Monongahela River Valley. 

 

They were received by the Union RR of Pittsburgh, in singles, pairs and groups, then routed to the mills by URR. 

 

The open hearths in particular, gobbled enormous amounts of powdered dolomite, for lining the floor of the furnace. 

 

It was dumped on the charging floor, where it was then routed to the pile in front of each furnace for shoveling in.

 

Those cars were in that trade for a long time.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Mischke
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:15 AM
To: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>; atkott@...; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O wagon top covered hoppers

 

 

 

 

Answers to questions....

 

 

1.  All B&O N-34 wagontop covered hoppers seem to have all been built with wood running boards.

 

2.  No hardware differences between two lots.   There were shop and lettering differences.

 

630300-399 built at Keyser lettered in wartime Kuhler scheme, dome herald on right.  

630400-499 built at Dubois lettered in transition Kuhler scheme, dome herald on left over reporting marks.

 

3.  All my photos, all eras, show wood running boards, even into the 1960's.  No information on metal running boards.   It would not surprise me if there were none.

 

4.  All N-34 had Duryea underframes.   All B&O Duryea underframes were different.  The Duryea designs evolved as each B&O freight car program specified them.   I have little information on these, no knowledge of surviving drawings..

 

 

Your N-34 model with wood running boards is good for 1948.

 

 

Many N-34 were in a pool for steelmaking dolomite (limestone) from the Shendoah Valley line, cars based out of Brunswick, Md.   My 1952 assignment sheet puts 53 of 200 N-34 in this pool alone.   This quality dolomite was sought after by eastern steel mills some distance away, so N-34 got around the rust belt before it rusted, and were interchanged with other railroads.

 

 

Atttached is a lettering scorecard for offset side twin hoppers, valid for the N-34 schemes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: "proto48er" <atkott@...>

Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O wagon top covered hoppers

Date: December 16, 2020 at 6:36:26 PM CST

 

I have four questions about the B&O class N-34 wagon top covered hoppers:

#1  -  When the 200 cars in class N-34 were new in 1940, did they all have wood roofwalks?

#2  -  What was the difference in construction or features, if any, between cars numbered 630300-630399 and 630400-630499?

#3  -  When did the N-34 class start receiving Apex roofwalks?

#4  -  Did all of these cars have Duryea underframes?  If so, is there a diagram for the particular type of Duryea underframe that might have been under these cars?

The reason for these questions is that I am trying to decide whether to keep my O Scale I&I Models N-34 with wood roofwalks - is it appropriate for the time frame of April, 1948, or had all of the prototype cars been fitted with metal roofwalks by then? (I&I imported the same brass model with Apex roofwalks.)
I have not been able to find any information or freight car diagrams for these cars.

Thank you very much for your help!

 


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Schuyler Larrabee
 

When REBOXX was selling boxes, they had researched “the best” plastic wrappers for models, in part because one of the workers had had very unfortunate experienced with wrapping models he’d custom painted and his customers finding . . . problems.  Unfortunately, none of the surviving personnel remember what it was.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

Gary, with my moving, packing HO rolling stock has been a concern. Damage was occurring until I began using these products.

To protect each car I do use pieces of this foam, with additional pieces to line the boxes https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-787P/Foam/Foam-Roll-Perforated-1-16-24-x-1250

I use these boxes https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-3189/Indestructo-and-Literature-Mailers/23-x-13-x-2-1-2-White-Literature-Mailers

The boxes are perfect for rows of HO cars or engines.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Roe
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 9:20 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

Admittedly, this post is not about Steam Era Freight Car models; but the transportation and/or storage of same.

 

I do not have a layout, so virtually all of my models 'live' in a box.....usually the one they came in.  Once they are built, painted, and weathered, in my mind it is not preferable to stick them back in a box unprotected.  I recently 'discovered' something that I think is the answer; but knowing my luck, it will probably be detrimental to the model and/or its finish.  That's why I seek the advice of someone who knows.

 

The material I was thinking of using is a very thin, very soft, pliable plastic.  The source is my grocery store.  It is the bags they have in dispensers in the fruits and vegetables section.  I can find nothing that tells what kind of plastic it is, only that it is classified as a No. 2 Recyclable, and made by Unistar Plastics.

 

Will this stuff end up adhering itself to my models, or perform some other regrettable act of violence toward them?

 

Thanks in advance for tolerance of this subject, and any insight.

 

gary roe

quincy, illinois


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Increasing slope sheet angle on hoppers

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ed;

 

There were other roads that modified hoppers for powdered ore traffic, with the rationale that:  1) powdered ore had the tendency to “stick” in place on “standard” (read: 30 degree) sloped slope sheets and hoppers (the interior hopper), and  2)  that cars loaded with powdered ore were never loaded to cubic capacity, since ore is so much heavier than coal, thus you were not losing space you could have used.

 

Different RRs had different responses to this problem.  Some went to the jennie/jenny, but that was a lot of money.  If you had hoppers you no longer really needed, why not?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of spsalso via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Increasing slope sheet angle on hoppers

 

In 1955, GN changed the slope sheet angle on some of their 73000-73199 hopper cars:


http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/2300/2301.jpg


from about 30 degrees to 55 degrees, and renumbered them into the 73700-73764 series.  The cubic capacity dropped from 1622 to 1253.

I've asked after this matter on the GN group.  Nobody knows why.

So I'll bring the subject up here.  

What load would GN have modified these cars for?

I'm interested in factual knowledge, and also informed speculation, since I have doubts anyone knows specifics on this matter.

My suspicion is that it was for "ore", or what most civilians would call "dirt".

I will also speculate that if the "ore" were no longer being transported, they'd be prized as hopper cars that would dump just about anything.



Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Douglas Harding
 

Gary, with my moving, packing HO rolling stock has been a concern. Damage was occurring until I began using these products.

To protect each car I do use pieces of this foam, with additional pieces to line the boxes https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-787P/Foam/Foam-Roll-Perforated-1-16-24-x-1250

I use these boxes https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-3189/Indestructo-and-Literature-Mailers/23-x-13-x-2-1-2-White-Literature-Mailers

The boxes are perfect for rows of HO cars or engines.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Roe
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 9:20 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

Admittedly, this post is not about Steam Era Freight Car models; but the transportation and/or storage of same.

 

I do not have a layout, so virtually all of my models 'live' in a box.....usually the one they came in.  Once they are built, painted, and weathered, in my mind it is not preferable to stick them back in a box unprotected.  I recently 'discovered' something that I think is the answer; but knowing my luck, it will probably be detrimental to the model and/or its finish.  That's why I seek the advice of someone who knows.

 

The material I was thinking of using is a very thin, very soft, pliable plastic.  The source is my grocery store.  It is the bags they have in dispensers in the fruits and vegetables section.  I can find nothing that tells what kind of plastic it is, only that it is classified as a No. 2 Recyclable, and made by Unistar Plastics.

 

Will this stuff end up adhering itself to my models, or perform some other regrettable act of violence toward them?

 

Thanks in advance for tolerance of this subject, and any insight.

 

gary roe

quincy, illinois


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

If you want to be completely sure, wrap your steam era freight car models in archival use acid free paper. 

Regards,
Bruce SMith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:09 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT
 
Gary
While this response isn’t about resin or plastic models being stored it did caution me on using plastic directly against a model.  I was reading that a Lionel collector had wrapped his prewar cars in plastic when he stored them.  After he passed away the family decided to sell the collection and when the models were unwrapped the plastic had reacted to the paint and when the plastic wrapping was removed some of the paint had stuck to it and pulled the paint off.  For my models that are built and don’t have a factory made storage (like Tangent or Exactrail) I first wrap the model in tissue paper (the type people use for presents) and then wrap in a layer of the smallest bubble wrap as to protect the parts.  

Charlie 


Re: C&IM 6554

Brent Greer
 

Great looking finished product Clark !    On black hoppers, it is certainly difficult for my eyes to pick out the cast-on ladder detail vs. wire in most cases.  The Stan R. method is certainly a good compromise.

One question, is that a lever type brake handle on this car?  It is difficult for me to see.

Sincere regards,
Brent


Dr. J. Brent Greer


Increasing slope sheet angle on hoppers

spsalso
 

In 1955, GN changed the slope sheet angle on some of their 73000-73199 hopper cars:


http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/2300/2301.jpg


from about 30 degrees to 55 degrees, and renumbered them into the 73700-73764 series.  The cubic capacity dropped from 1622 to 1253.

I've asked after this matter on the GN group.  Nobody knows why.

So I'll bring the subject up here.  

What load would GN have modified these cars for?

I'm interested in factual knowledge, and also informed speculation, since I have doubts anyone knows specifics on this matter.

My suspicion is that it was for "ore", or what most civilians would call "dirt".

I will also speculate that if the "ore" were no longer being transported, they'd be prized as hopper cars that would dump just about anything.



Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Charlie Duckworth
 

Gary
While this response isn’t about resin or plastic models being stored it did caution me on using plastic directly against a model.  I was reading that a Lionel collector had wrapped his prewar cars in plastic when he stored them.  After he passed away the family decided to sell the collection and when the models were unwrapped the plastic had reacted to the paint and when the plastic wrapping was removed some of the paint had stuck to it and pulled the paint off.  For my models that are built and don’t have a factory made storage (like Tangent or Exactrail) I first wrap the model in tissue paper (the type people use for presents) and then wrap in a layer of the smallest bubble wrap as to protect the parts.  

Charlie 

On Dec 17, 2020, at 9:21 AM, Gary Roe <wabashrr@...> wrote:


Admittedly, this post is not about Steam Era Freight Car models; but the transportation and/or storage of same.

I do not have a layout, so virtually all of my models 'live' in a box.....usually the one they came in.  Once they are built, painted, and weathered, in my mind it is not preferable to stick them back in a box unprotected.  I recently 'discovered' something that I think is the answer; but knowing my luck, it will probably be detrimental to the model and/or its finish.  That's why I seek the advice of someone who knows.

The material I was thinking of using is a very thin, very soft, pliable plastic.  The source is my grocery store.  It is the bags they have in dispensers in the fruits and vegetables section.  I can find nothing that tells what kind of plastic it is, only that it is classified as a No. 2 Recyclable, and made by Unistar Plastics.

Will this stuff end up adhering itself to my models, or perform some other regrettable act of violence toward them?

Thanks in advance for tolerance of this subject, and any insight.

gary roe
quincy, illinois

--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Andy Miller
 

Gary,

 

I’ve been using those bags for years to pack my trains when I move them.

 

Regards and Happy holidays,

 

Andy Miller

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Roe
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:20 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

Admittedly, this post is not about Steam Era Freight Car models; but the transportation and/or storage of same.

 

I do not have a layout, so virtually all of my models 'live' in a box.....usually the one they came in.  Once they are built, painted, and weathered, in my mind it is not preferable to stick them back in a box unprotected.  I recently 'discovered' something that I think is the answer; but knowing my luck, it will probably be detrimental to the model and/or its finish.  That's why I seek the advice of someone who knows.

 

The material I was thinking of using is a very thin, very soft, pliable plastic.  The source is my grocery store.  It is the bags they have in dispensers in the fruits and vegetables section.  I can find nothing that tells what kind of plastic it is, only that it is classified as a No. 2 Recyclable, and made by Unistar Plastics.

 

Will this stuff end up adhering itself to my models, or perform some other regrettable act of violence toward them?

 

Thanks in advance for tolerance of this subject, and any insight.

 

gary roe

quincy, illinois


C&IM 6554 question

Clark Propst
 

Seems there's much more info on USRA box car than other types. I wonder if there's a replacement hand brake racket for the hoppers? If so I'd like to replace the one on my car. I know there's one on a Tichy sprue, but it doesn't look the same as the one molded onto the car end.
Clark Propst


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Dave Parker
 

Ethylene, not ethylene oxide, promotes ripening in fruits and vegetable.  Rather different molecules, with rather different safety issues.  The former does enjoy some use in forcing ripening in commercial storage, but there are also methods for lowering its concentration in produce warehouses to prolong storage life.

You may be conflating ethylene and nitric oxide.  NO gas counters the effect of ethylene and delays ripening, but I haven't seen any evidence that it is ever used commercially. 

I suspect that the produce bags are simply polyethylene, and apparently at least some of them are HDPE:

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-19156/Food-Bags/Narrow-Profile-Produce-Bags-14-x-18?pricode=WA9598&gadtype=pla&id=S-19156&gclid=CjwKCAiAoOz-BRBdEiwAyuvA65b0LsvFjvsbjLxyNGJWd5zxubTN3r6DGYSw-BN6WNVfl0hhzJDg7hoC0zsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I can't find anything to suggest they contain any kind of additive.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


C&IM 6554

Clark Propst
 

I was gifted this Accurail USRA hopper. Asked about it’s accuracy on the this list and a photo of one was posted. Thank you! With that big hurdle jumped it was time to consider the amount of time I wanted to put into this project. I could go full Monty ala Bill Welch or cut back a bit like Stan Rydarowicz. Stan’s approach to hoppers stuck in my head so that path was taken. Stan liked to replace just the long left end (left end on the sides, right end on the ends) with wire. So I did that. In doing so, as I center punched the corner support I pushed hard enough to break it. With my heavy handedness replacing the grabs was out. I looked through the photos in Richard Hendrickson’s article on these cars and the accompanying one on how to upgrade them in RMJ. One detail I thought would be nice to add was the train line along the side. I also added a couple air pipes to the brake component cluster on the B end. I noticed there were angled step supports, so I glued on some scrap styrene strips. The steps were getting pretty flimsy from handling these strips strengthened them. Also added pulling loops (formed from J shaped wire), Yarmouth Carmar uncoupling levers, some Archer rivets on the air line brackets (styrene strip), a route car holder from my scrap parts drawer, Tichy Andrews trucks (they look closer to the real ones than the Accurail truck), semi-scale wheel sets and Kadee 153 couplers finishes the deal, I think?
Here are a couple photos of the completed car after paint touchup, decals and Pan Pastels. I faintly remember load ghost lines on the insides of hoppers after unloading. Going from old age memory I tried to copy (poorly at that) what I recall the insides of coal hoppers looking like. Beings I only spend about 5 minutes weathering with Pan Pastels this is what you get...I do like the car, fits in well on the layout.
Clark Propst


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

al_brown03
 

I usually wrap models in bubble wrap; I've never had it interact with the paint.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

John Sykes III
 

Error in my above reply.  Ethylene oxide actually forces ripening of fruits and veggies, I believe the additive in the bags does the opposite, slows it down.


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

John Sykes III
 

LDPE at my local Publix.  Beware that some of them have an additive (ethylene oxide??) to keep fruits and veggies fresh longer (usually green colored).  That could react with some model paints unfavorably.


Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Gary Roe
 

Admittedly, this post is not about Steam Era Freight Car models; but the transportation and/or storage of same.

I do not have a layout, so virtually all of my models 'live' in a box.....usually the one they came in.  Once they are built, painted, and weathered, in my mind it is not preferable to stick them back in a box unprotected.  I recently 'discovered' something that I think is the answer; but knowing my luck, it will probably be detrimental to the model and/or its finish.  That's why I seek the advice of someone who knows.

The material I was thinking of using is a very thin, very soft, pliable plastic.  The source is my grocery store.  It is the bags they have in dispensers in the fruits and vegetables section.  I can find nothing that tells what kind of plastic it is, only that it is classified as a No. 2 Recyclable, and made by Unistar Plastics.

Will this stuff end up adhering itself to my models, or perform some other regrettable act of violence toward them?

Thanks in advance for tolerance of this subject, and any insight.

gary roe
quincy, illinois

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