Date   

Re: Increasing slope sheet angle on hoppers

Jack Mullen
 

Could be something as basic as sand, gravel, or crushed stone, although most railroads using old hoppers in such service didn't bother with alterations to suit the material. A relatively steep slope sheet helps discharge aggregates that can be reluctant, and the reduced cubic capacity works for a material with bulk density around 100 pcf.

Jack Mullen


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O wagon top covered hoppers

mark_landgraf
 

Does anyone have shop drawings for these cars?
I would to get a scan of them. I have any engineering scanner at my house. Or I can pay you to obtain the scans locally. 

Mark Landgraf
Mark_landgraf@...


On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 2:28 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD
<elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Group;

 

To add to Jim:

 

There was a group of these cars I remember well, serving the powdered dolomite trade to USSteel’s mills in the Monongahela River Valley. 

 

They were received by the Union RR of Pittsburgh, in singles, pairs and groups, then routed to the mills by URR. 

 

The open hearths in particular, gobbled enormous amounts of powdered dolomite, for lining the floor of the furnace. 

 

It was dumped on the charging floor, where it was then routed to the pile in front of each furnace for shoveling in.

 

Those cars were in that trade for a long time.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Mischke
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:15 AM
To: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>; atkott@...; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O wagon top covered hoppers

 

 

 

 

Answers to questions....

 

 

1.  All B&O N-34 wagontop covered hoppers seem to have all been built with wood running boards.

 

2.  No hardware differences between two lots.   There were shop and lettering differences.

 

630300-399 built at Keyser lettered in wartime Kuhler scheme, dome herald on right.  

630400-499 built at Dubois lettered in transition Kuhler scheme, dome herald on left over reporting marks.

 

3.  All my photos, all eras, show wood running boards, even into the 1960's.  No information on metal running boards.   It would not surprise me if there were none.

 

4.  All N-34 had Duryea underframes.   All B&O Duryea underframes were different.  The Duryea designs evolved as each B&O freight car program specified them.   I have little information on these, no knowledge of surviving drawings..

 

 

Your N-34 model with wood running boards is good for 1948.

 

 

Many N-34 were in a pool for steelmaking dolomite (limestone) from the Shendoah Valley line, cars based out of Brunswick, Md.   My 1952 assignment sheet puts 53 of 200 N-34 in this pool alone.   This quality dolomite was sought after by eastern steel mills some distance away, so N-34 got around the rust belt before it rusted, and were interchanged with other railroads.

 

 

Atttached is a lettering scorecard for offset side twin hoppers, valid for the N-34 schemes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: "proto48er" <atkott@...>

Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O wagon top covered hoppers

Date: December 16, 2020 at 6:36:26 PM CST

 

I have four questions about the B&O class N-34 wagon top covered hoppers:

#1  -  When the 200 cars in class N-34 were new in 1940, did they all have wood roofwalks?

#2  -  What was the difference in construction or features, if any, between cars numbered 630300-630399 and 630400-630499?

#3  -  When did the N-34 class start receiving Apex roofwalks?

#4  -  Did all of these cars have Duryea underframes?  If so, is there a diagram for the particular type of Duryea underframe that might have been under these cars?

The reason for these questions is that I am trying to decide whether to keep my O Scale I&I Models N-34 with wood roofwalks - is it appropriate for the time frame of April, 1948, or had all of the prototype cars been fitted with metal roofwalks by then? (I&I imported the same brass model with Apex roofwalks.)
I have not been able to find any information or freight car diagrams for these cars.

Thank you very much for your help!

 


Re: Frt Car Model Database

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Bill,
 
I use an alpha-numeric (by manufacturer and manufacturer’s item/part number) inventory list, with columns for descriptive info, status and/or notes (planed project id, needs paint, lettering, weathering, repairs, etc.) and location.  I did mine with WordPerfect, but it could just as easily be done with Word or any other such program with which one is familiar.
 
I also started using DataCrow (http://datacrow.net/) a number of years ago to keep track of my library after having inadvertently acquired more than one duplicate volume.  The program is set up in modules designed to manage books, images, music, movies, and other things.  The user can also create additional modules for other items as well.  I haven’t tried to do that, but I imagine one could create a custom module for freight cars and other models.
 
It will be interesting to see what other folks are using for that purpose.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Bill McClure
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Frt Car Model Database
 
Does anyone use a true database program to keep track of freight car models? As opposed to a spreadsheet program.

Thanks,
Bill


Re: Frt Car Model Database

Paul Koehler
 

Bill:

 

Yes I use File Maker Pro.  Like it very well.

 

Paul C. Koehler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill McClure
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 3:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Frt Car Model Database

 

Does anyone use a true database program to keep track of freight car models? As opposed to a spreadsheet program.

Thanks,
Bill


Re: Frt Car Model Database

Robert J Miller CFA
 

I have used MS Access. I export them to Excel and download to my iPad when I go to train shows (you remember those) so I don’t buy something I already own.


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 8:25:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Frt Car Model Database
 
One modeler that I know uses Yard Office software. I plan to use it as a database.
 
Ken Montero
On 12/17/2020 6:54 PM Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote:
 
 
Does anyone use a true database program to keep track of freight car models? As opposed to a spreadsheet program.

Thanks,
Bill


Re: Frt Car Model Database

Kenneth Montero
 

One modeler that I know uses Yard Office software. I plan to use it as a database.
 
Ken Montero

On 12/17/2020 6:54 PM Bill McClure <virginianbill@...> wrote:
 
 
Does anyone use a true database program to keep track of freight car models? As opposed to a spreadsheet program.

Thanks,
Bill


Re: Increasing slope sheet angle on hoppers

Schuyler Larrabee
 

The Lackawanna did this too. Unfortunately, I do not remember exactly why.  It might surface after a while.  You could ID the cars that had this done after they were de-converted by a line of empty rivet holes in the sides.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mark_landgraf via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 4:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; spsalso via groups.io <Edwardsutorik@...>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Increasing slope sheet angle on hoppers

 

Is there a listing of on line shippers for GN?

Or any conductors switch lists or yard lists or junction interchange lists for GN available?

 

Maybe these documents could assist in identifying the commodity. 

 

Mark Landgraf

Albany NY

 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:23 PM, spsalso via groups.io

In 1955, GN changed the slope sheet angle on some of their 73000-73199 hopper cars:


http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/2300/2301.jpg


from about 30 degrees to 55 degrees, and renumbered them into the 73700-73764 series.  The cubic capacity dropped from 1622 to 1253.

I've asked after this matter on the GN group.  Nobody knows why.

So I'll bring the subject up here.  

What load would GN have modified these cars for?

I'm interested in factual knowledge, and also informed speculation, since I have doubts anyone knows specifics on this matter.

My suspicion is that it was for "ore", or what most civilians would call "dirt".

I will also speculate that if the "ore" were no longer being transported, they'd be prized as hopper cars that would dump just about anything.



Ed

Edward Sutorik


Frt Car Model Database

Bill McClure
 

Does anyone use a true database program to keep track of freight car models? As opposed to a spreadsheet program.

Thanks,
Bill


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Tony Thompson
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

A ZipLok Storage (quart size) bag can ALMOST close on a 50’ car.

      I did try ZipLok bags at one point. Fighting to avoid scraping with the closure while inserting the car, and my reluctance to tightly seal the model inside, led to  my discarding approach.

Tony Thompson




Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Schuyler Larrabee
 

A ZipLok Storage (quart size) bag can ALMOST close on a 50’ car.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

    Gary, I can't answer your question about the produce bags, but what I have found to be very dependable over years of use is ordinary sandwich bags (the kind where you tuck in the flap to close). These protect a model from abrasion on protruding parts like grab irons, and do not seem to interact with the model surface. 

 

     An HO scale car of 40-ft. or less fits nicely. Of course it takes two of them for 50-ft. cars . . .

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Re: Increasing slope sheet angle on hoppers

Tony Thompson
 

Mark_Landgraf wrote:

Is there a listing of on line shippers for GN?
Or any conductors switch lists or yard lists or junction interchange lists for GN available?

  You want the GN Shippers Guide, available from Rails Unlimited. They are at this link:  http://railsunlimited.ribbonrail.com/  and click on Books.

Tony Thompson




Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Aley, Jeff A
 

I was cautioned by the late Dr. Denny Anspach to wrap models in FOOD GRADE polyethyline sheets or bags.  Since the Reboxx are no longer available, he recommended buying them from Dan’s Trains in Ocala, FL.  [I note that they are out of stock at the moment].  Why “Food Grade”?  Because the mold releases that MAY be used on non-food grade bags could interact w/ our models.  Rumor has it that this is the problem with some bubble-wraps.  Food grade bags are not permitted to have such mold releases.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:07 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

When REBOXX was selling boxes, they had researched “the best” plastic wrappers for models, in part because one of the workers had had very unfortunate experienced with wrapping models he’d custom painted and his customers finding . . . problems.  Unfortunately, none of the surviving personnel remember what it was.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

Gary, with my moving, packing HO rolling stock has been a concern. Damage was occurring until I began using these products.

To protect each car I do use pieces of this foam, with additional pieces to line the boxes https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-787P/Foam/Foam-Roll-Perforated-1-16-24-x-1250

I use these boxes https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-3189/Indestructo-and-Literature-Mailers/23-x-13-x-2-1-2-White-Literature-Mailers

The boxes are perfect for rows of HO cars or engines.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Roe
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 9:20 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

Admittedly, this post is not about Steam Era Freight Car models; but the transportation and/or storage of same.

 

I do not have a layout, so virtually all of my models 'live' in a box.....usually the one they came in.  Once they are built, painted, and weathered, in my mind it is not preferable to stick them back in a box unprotected.  I recently 'discovered' something that I think is the answer; but knowing my luck, it will probably be detrimental to the model and/or its finish.  That's why I seek the advice of someone who knows.

 

The material I was thinking of using is a very thin, very soft, pliable plastic.  The source is my grocery store.  It is the bags they have in dispensers in the fruits and vegetables section.  I can find nothing that tells what kind of plastic it is, only that it is classified as a No. 2 Recyclable, and made by Unistar Plastics.

 

Will this stuff end up adhering itself to my models, or perform some other regrettable act of violence toward them?

 

Thanks in advance for tolerance of this subject, and any insight.

 

gary roe

quincy, illinois


Re: Increasing slope sheet angle on hoppers

mark_landgraf
 

Is there a listing of on line shippers for GN?
Or any conductors switch lists or yard lists or junction interchange lists for GN available?

Maybe these documents could assist in identifying the commodity. 

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY


On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 12:23 PM, spsalso via groups.io
<Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:
In 1955, GN changed the slope sheet angle on some of their 73000-73199 hopper cars:


http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/2300/2301.jpg


from about 30 degrees to 55 degrees, and renumbered them into the 73700-73764 series.  The cubic capacity dropped from 1622 to 1253.

I've asked after this matter on the GN group.  Nobody knows why.

So I'll bring the subject up here.  

What load would GN have modified these cars for?

I'm interested in factual knowledge, and also informed speculation, since I have doubts anyone knows specifics on this matter.

My suspicion is that it was for "ore", or what most civilians would call "dirt".

I will also speculate that if the "ore" were no longer being transported, they'd be prized as hopper cars that would dump just about anything.



Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Ken Vandevoort <apo09324@...>
 

I haven't tried produce bags, but I did learn the hard way that rubber shelf liners will take the paint off of cars.

Ken Vandevoort


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

frograbbit602
 

Gary I am not not a chemist or sure about the various plastics; however, I did use bubble wrap as shown in the one box. I read an article on car damage using the bubble wrap so going back to my old system of cardboard. (Photos) I have also started putting a piece of cardboard between trucks and foam not shown in the photos. I also have purchased cars wrapped in tissue paper that is turning yellow; however, no harm to the plastic. I store resin built freight cars in Athearn boxes due to size as I purchased several hundred years back.

Lester Breuer


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Andy Brusgard <ajb1102@...>
 

After having the original packing foam destroy the custom paint jobs I did on at least six brass locos, I now wrap in paper towels than wrap in inexpensive 11" x 12" plastic storage bags. Than if older foam. I'll toss the fome and wrap with bubble wrap - small bubbles. You can get different size bubbles.  


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Tony Thompson
 

    Gary, I can't answer your question about the produce bags, but what I have found to be very dependable over years of use is ordinary sandwich bags (the kind where you tuck in the flap to close). These protect a model from abrasion on protruding parts like grab irons, and do not seem to interact with the model surface. 

     An HO scale car of 40-ft. or less fits nicely. Of course it takes two of them for 50-ft. cars . . .

Tony Thompson




Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O wagon top covered hoppers

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Group;

 

To add to Jim:

 

There was a group of these cars I remember well, serving the powdered dolomite trade to USSteel’s mills in the Monongahela River Valley. 

 

They were received by the Union RR of Pittsburgh, in singles, pairs and groups, then routed to the mills by URR. 

 

The open hearths in particular, gobbled enormous amounts of powdered dolomite, for lining the floor of the furnace. 

 

It was dumped on the charging floor, where it was then routed to the pile in front of each furnace for shoveling in.

 

Those cars were in that trade for a long time.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Mischke
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:15 AM
To: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>; atkott@...; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O wagon top covered hoppers

 

 

 

 

Answers to questions....

 

 

1.  All B&O N-34 wagontop covered hoppers seem to have all been built with wood running boards.

 

2.  No hardware differences between two lots.   There were shop and lettering differences.

 

630300-399 built at Keyser lettered in wartime Kuhler scheme, dome herald on right.  

630400-499 built at Dubois lettered in transition Kuhler scheme, dome herald on left over reporting marks.

 

3.  All my photos, all eras, show wood running boards, even into the 1960's.  No information on metal running boards.   It would not surprise me if there were none.

 

4.  All N-34 had Duryea underframes.   All B&O Duryea underframes were different.  The Duryea designs evolved as each B&O freight car program specified them.   I have little information on these, no knowledge of surviving drawings..

 

 

Your N-34 model with wood running boards is good for 1948.

 

 

Many N-34 were in a pool for steelmaking dolomite (limestone) from the Shendoah Valley line, cars based out of Brunswick, Md.   My 1952 assignment sheet puts 53 of 200 N-34 in this pool alone.   This quality dolomite was sought after by eastern steel mills some distance away, so N-34 got around the rust belt before it rusted, and were interchanged with other railroads.

 

 

Atttached is a lettering scorecard for offset side twin hoppers, valid for the N-34 schemes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: "proto48er" <atkott@...>

Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O wagon top covered hoppers

Date: December 16, 2020 at 6:36:26 PM CST

 

I have four questions about the B&O class N-34 wagon top covered hoppers:

#1  -  When the 200 cars in class N-34 were new in 1940, did they all have wood roofwalks?

#2  -  What was the difference in construction or features, if any, between cars numbered 630300-630399 and 630400-630499?

#3  -  When did the N-34 class start receiving Apex roofwalks?

#4  -  Did all of these cars have Duryea underframes?  If so, is there a diagram for the particular type of Duryea underframe that might have been under these cars?

The reason for these questions is that I am trying to decide whether to keep my O Scale I&I Models N-34 with wood roofwalks - is it appropriate for the time frame of April, 1948, or had all of the prototype cars been fitted with metal roofwalks by then? (I&I imported the same brass model with Apex roofwalks.)
I have not been able to find any information or freight car diagrams for these cars.

Thank you very much for your help!

 


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Schuyler Larrabee
 

When REBOXX was selling boxes, they had researched “the best” plastic wrappers for models, in part because one of the workers had had very unfortunate experienced with wrapping models he’d custom painted and his customers finding . . . problems.  Unfortunately, none of the surviving personnel remember what it was.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

Gary, with my moving, packing HO rolling stock has been a concern. Damage was occurring until I began using these products.

To protect each car I do use pieces of this foam, with additional pieces to line the boxes https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-787P/Foam/Foam-Roll-Perforated-1-16-24-x-1250

I use these boxes https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-3189/Indestructo-and-Literature-Mailers/23-x-13-x-2-1-2-White-Literature-Mailers

The boxes are perfect for rows of HO cars or engines.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Roe
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 9:20 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

Admittedly, this post is not about Steam Era Freight Car models; but the transportation and/or storage of same.

 

I do not have a layout, so virtually all of my models 'live' in a box.....usually the one they came in.  Once they are built, painted, and weathered, in my mind it is not preferable to stick them back in a box unprotected.  I recently 'discovered' something that I think is the answer; but knowing my luck, it will probably be detrimental to the model and/or its finish.  That's why I seek the advice of someone who knows.

 

The material I was thinking of using is a very thin, very soft, pliable plastic.  The source is my grocery store.  It is the bags they have in dispensers in the fruits and vegetables section.  I can find nothing that tells what kind of plastic it is, only that it is classified as a No. 2 Recyclable, and made by Unistar Plastics.

 

Will this stuff end up adhering itself to my models, or perform some other regrettable act of violence toward them?

 

Thanks in advance for tolerance of this subject, and any insight.

 

gary roe

quincy, illinois


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Increasing slope sheet angle on hoppers

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ed;

 

There were other roads that modified hoppers for powdered ore traffic, with the rationale that:  1) powdered ore had the tendency to “stick” in place on “standard” (read: 30 degree) sloped slope sheets and hoppers (the interior hopper), and  2)  that cars loaded with powdered ore were never loaded to cubic capacity, since ore is so much heavier than coal, thus you were not losing space you could have used.

 

Different RRs had different responses to this problem.  Some went to the jennie/jenny, but that was a lot of money.  If you had hoppers you no longer really needed, why not?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of spsalso via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Increasing slope sheet angle on hoppers

 

In 1955, GN changed the slope sheet angle on some of their 73000-73199 hopper cars:


http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/2300/2301.jpg


from about 30 degrees to 55 degrees, and renumbered them into the 73700-73764 series.  The cubic capacity dropped from 1622 to 1253.

I've asked after this matter on the GN group.  Nobody knows why.

So I'll bring the subject up here.  

What load would GN have modified these cars for?

I'm interested in factual knowledge, and also informed speculation, since I have doubts anyone knows specifics on this matter.

My suspicion is that it was for "ore", or what most civilians would call "dirt".

I will also speculate that if the "ore" were no longer being transported, they'd be prized as hopper cars that would dump just about anything.



Ed

Edward Sutorik

14701 - 14720 of 194794