Date   

Re: UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

Jack Burgess
 

Drew send the question at the bottom directly to me but I thought that others might want to add their experience in building these cars.

 

Jack

 

Drew…

 

Attached is a photo looking down at one of the tank cars that I kept but I don’t recall how I did the handrails. I suspect that there were six separate pieces for each car…two long pieces on the sides and two pieces to make up each end handrails. Joints could be hidden in the handrail stanchions. An alternative would be four pieces…the two long pieces and two end pieces (rather than having a joint in the middle of the ends).

 

I would start with the “bump out”, bending the brass wire over something like a ½”-diameter tube. Then you need bend the wire for very large curve for the ends. I suspect that I bent that portion of the handrail over the end of the model at the center of the tank since it follows the curve of the end of the car. The bends going around the corners look like there were bend around a 1/16” diameter tube.

 

If I were building more than one of these cars today I would use calipers to measure the distance from the long handrail on one side to the one on the other side. I would draw two lines on a piece of thin plywood that distance apart. Then I would drill vertical holes for two pieces of 1/16” diameter tube so that the holes were “tangent” to the lines. (I.e., draw another line at right angles to the two pencil line and then drill the holes so that they are on the inside to the right angles and the holes touch both lines.) I would then bend a piece of brass wire around the center of the end of the tank. Putting that wire in my “jig” would let me bend the corners exactly where needed. That would work for the end without the brake staff. For the other end, bend the bump out first and then add the large diameter curve and then bend the wire around the vertical tubes.

 

Sorry that I don’t remember exactly what I did when I built them but that was 12 years ago!

 

If something doesn’t make sense, email me directly and I can give you a sketch…

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: Drew [mailto:phillydrewcifer@...]
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 1:27 PM
To: jack@...
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

Jack,

   I have two of these Precision Scale kits which are about 65% complete and have been that way for the better part of a decade and half. My stumbling block is the handrails - I just can't get the bend for the "bump out" around the brake ratchet correct. Have you any suggestions or tips on how I can bend the handrails so I can move these cars over the finish line?

Drew Marshall in slushy South Philly, PA

Modeling the pre-Depression years.

Sent from TypeApp

On Dec 21, 2020, at 15:36, Jack Burgess <jack@...> wrote:

I built six of these cars from Richard’s article since they were used on the YV to ship Bunker C to be transferred to logging tank cars which were then hauled up the incline to provide fuel for the Shay locomotives and donkey engines. The only hard part was kit-bashing the trucks. After I finished them I realized that I had too many on the layout and sold three of them on eBay including this one.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

There are a few standard gauge V cars mixed in with the narrow gauge cars in the 55xxxx series with internal heating coils, but the main remaining series of cars were in the 14300 and 15999 series.

 

In the January 1954 ORER, there are 211 cars listed in that range, most of which have 50 ton capacity trucks, but 4 are still listed with 30 ton capacity (the old arch bar trucks, maybe?)

 

In the 1955 tank car tariff, there are still 6500 gallon tank cars listed in the range between 14052 and 14519.  There were no numbers in the 15xxx range in the 1955 tariff.

 

So, I can keep one of Richard’s PSC kitbashes in my long term schedule.

 

Steve Hile


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

Jack Burgess
 

Thanks Elden…

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 2:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

Dam you do good work, Jack!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jack Burgess
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

I built six of these cars from Richard’s article since they were used on the YV to ship Bunker C to be transferred to logging tank cars which were then hauled up the incline to provide fuel for the Shay locomotives and donkey engines. The only hard part was kit-bashing the trucks. After I finished them I realized that I had too many on the layout and sold three of them on eBay including this one.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

There are a few standard gauge V cars mixed in with the narrow gauge cars in the 55xxxx series with internal heating coils, but the main remaining series of cars were in the 14300 and 15999 series.

 

In the January 1954 ORER, there are 211 cars listed in that range, most of which have 50 ton capacity trucks, but 4 are still listed with 30 ton capacity (the old arch bar trucks, maybe?)

 

In the 1955 tank car tariff, there are still 6500 gallon tank cars listed in the range between 14052 and 14519.  There were no numbers in the 15xxx range in the 1955 tariff.

 

So, I can keep one of Richard’s PSC kitbashes in my long term schedule.

 

Steve Hile


Re: UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

Jack Burgess
 

Thanks Johannes…

 

Jack

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 3:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

Steve, Jack,

 

many thanks for the additional information. And yes, Jack - VERY nice model!

 

Greetings

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Montag, 21. Dezember 2020 um 21:22 Uhr
Von: "Steve and Barb Hile" <shile@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

There are a few standard gauge V cars mixed in with the narrow gauge cars in the 55xxxx series with internal heating coils, but the main remaining series of cars were in the 14300 and 15999 series.

 

In the January 1954 ORER, there are 211 cars listed in that range, most of which have 50 ton capacity trucks, but 4 are still listed with 30 ton capacity (the old arch bar trucks, maybe?)

 

In the 1955 tank car tariff, there are still 6500 gallon tank cars listed in the range between 14052 and 14519.  There were no numbers in the 15xxx range in the 1955 tariff.

 

So, I can keep one of Richard’s PSC kitbashes in my long term schedule.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Gates via groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

The January 1952 Condensed Table of Union Tank Car Company Cars lists at least two series of 6500 gallon V cars, not including the narrow gauge cars.

Jim Gates

On Monday, December 21, 2020, 09:53:03 AM CST, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

 

 

Although UTLX did have some 10,000 gallon Type V cars, the model shown is a 6500 gallon car.

 

The main issue, following their use through WWII, was the requirement to convert to AB brakes.  Note that the model has split KD brakes that are mounted directly to the bottom plate of the tank as there was no center sill.  With some built in the first years of the century and none built past 1912, it would appear that UTLX did not deem conversion to AB schedule brakes worth the cost and effort.

 

Note that this type of car, with the K brakes continued in operation for many years beyond 1953 on Colorado narrow gauge rails.

 

It would be interesting to know what was the last standard gauge Type V car in operation and when it was retired?   Certainly, it would have been at or near 1953.

 

Hope this helps.  With the onset of WWII every tank car that was available was pressed into service.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

Hello friends,

I have one of these cars:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Brass-Precision-Scale-10-000-Gallon-Union-Tank-Car-Frameless-15456-Korea/333831012602?hash=item4db9e100fa:g:DE0AAOSw3ZFf3rca

Years ago I have read these were in use until after WWII, but I am sure - if at all - then with other trucks (easy fix). But when I see how small it is and that it doesn't have a seperate frame - I wonder if this design met all requirements for any kind of service around and after WWII - does anyone of you know more?

Many thanks and greetings

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 


Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood


Re: UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

vapeurchapelon
 

Steve, Jack,
 
many thanks for the additional information. And yes, Jack - VERY nice model!
 
Greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Montag, 21. Dezember 2020 um 21:22 Uhr
Von: "Steve and Barb Hile" <shile@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

There are a few standard gauge V cars mixed in with the narrow gauge cars in the 55xxxx series with internal heating coils, but the main remaining series of cars were in the 14300 and 15999 series.

 

In the January 1954 ORER, there are 211 cars listed in that range, most of which have 50 ton capacity trucks, but 4 are still listed with 30 ton capacity (the old arch bar trucks, maybe?)

 

In the 1955 tank car tariff, there are still 6500 gallon tank cars listed in the range between 14052 and 14519.  There were no numbers in the 15xxx range in the 1955 tariff.

 

So, I can keep one of Richard’s PSC kitbashes in my long term schedule.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Gates via groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

The January 1952 Condensed Table of Union Tank Car Company Cars lists at least two series of 6500 gallon V cars, not including the narrow gauge cars.

Jim Gates

On Monday, December 21, 2020, 09:53:03 AM CST, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

 

 

Although UTLX did have some 10,000 gallon Type V cars, the model shown is a 6500 gallon car.

 

The main issue, following their use through WWII, was the requirement to convert to AB brakes.  Note that the model has split KD brakes that are mounted directly to the bottom plate of the tank as there was no center sill.  With some built in the first years of the century and none built past 1912, it would appear that UTLX did not deem conversion to AB schedule brakes worth the cost and effort.

 

Note that this type of car, with the K brakes continued in operation for many years beyond 1953 on Colorado narrow gauge rails.

 

It would be interesting to know what was the last standard gauge Type V car in operation and when it was retired?   Certainly, it would have been at or near 1953.

 

Hope this helps.  With the onset of WWII every tank car that was available was pressed into service.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

Hello friends,

I have one of these cars:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Brass-Precision-Scale-10-000-Gallon-Union-Tank-Car-Frameless-15456-Korea/333831012602?hash=item4db9e100fa:g:DE0AAOSw3ZFf3rca

Years ago I have read these were in use until after WWII, but I am sure - if at all - then with other trucks (easy fix). But when I see how small it is and that it doesn't have a seperate frame - I wonder if this design met all requirements for any kind of service around and after WWII - does anyone of you know more?

Many thanks and greetings

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 


Re: Retainer Valves

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 01:34 PM, Dave Lawler wrote:
I model Ontario, Canada in 1944 so there are likely to be a mix of brake systems? When the brakes on an older car were changed was the retainer
valve changed at the same time? Is a KC valve like the one you pictured not compatible with the AB system or might there me a mix?
There was a mix... for a long time. Both valves are compatible, but the AB equipment has more features; a separate supply of air for an emergency brake application, for one. This was not a government mandate, but rather a requirement for interchange under the AAR agreement. The railroads could continue using K brakes on captive equipment that was not interchanged after the final effective date of the rule change in the early fifties. Canada was a special case, as I don't believe the major carriers (CP and CN) enforced the AAR rules on each other. At any rate, I recall seeing K brake equipped cars running in captive service on the GWWD in Winnipeg in 1975, long after the cut-off of our discussions here.

Dennis Storzek


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Dam you do good work, Jack!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jack Burgess
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

I built six of these cars from Richard’s article since they were used on the YV to ship Bunker C to be transferred to logging tank cars which were then hauled up the incline to provide fuel for the Shay locomotives and donkey engines. The only hard part was kit-bashing the trucks. After I finished them I realized that I had too many on the layout and sold three of them on eBay including this one.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

There are a few standard gauge V cars mixed in with the narrow gauge cars in the 55xxxx series with internal heating coils, but the main remaining series of cars were in the 14300 and 15999 series.

 

In the January 1954 ORER, there are 211 cars listed in that range, most of which have 50 ton capacity trucks, but 4 are still listed with 30 ton capacity (the old arch bar trucks, maybe?)

 

In the 1955 tank car tariff, there are still 6500 gallon tank cars listed in the range between 14052 and 14519.  There were no numbers in the 15xxx range in the 1955 tariff.

 

So, I can keep one of Richard’s PSC kitbashes in my long term schedule.

 

Steve Hile


Re: Retainer Valves

Dave Lawler
 

Jack Burgess,
Thank you for the detailed photo of the KC retainer valve. The ones in the Cal-Scale KC & AB sets are so small that I can not make out the detail.even with a magnifier.
This brings me to another question. I understand that sometime in the mid 30s the government mandated that freight cars be fitted with AB brakes but many older cars
were not retro-fitted right away? I model Ontario, Canada in 1944 so there are likely to be a mix of brake systems? When the brakes on an older car were changed was the retainer
valve changed at the same time? Is a KC valve like the one you pictured not compatible with the AB system or might there me a mix?
Thank you and Merry Christmas to all,
Dave Lawler
Avon Lake, Ohio


Re: UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

Jack Burgess
 

I built six of these cars from Richard’s article since they were used on the YV to ship Bunker C to be transferred to logging tank cars which were then hauled up the incline to provide fuel for the Shay locomotives and donkey engines. The only hard part was kit-bashing the trucks. After I finished them I realized that I had too many on the layout and sold three of them on eBay including this one.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

There are a few standard gauge V cars mixed in with the narrow gauge cars in the 55xxxx series with internal heating coils, but the main remaining series of cars were in the 14300 and 15999 series.

 

In the January 1954 ORER, there are 211 cars listed in that range, most of which have 50 ton capacity trucks, but 4 are still listed with 30 ton capacity (the old arch bar trucks, maybe?)

 

In the 1955 tank car tariff, there are still 6500 gallon tank cars listed in the range between 14052 and 14519.  There were no numbers in the 15xxx range in the 1955 tariff.

 

So, I can keep one of Richard’s PSC kitbashes in my long term schedule.

 

Steve Hile


Re: UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

Steve and Barb Hile
 

There are a few standard gauge V cars mixed in with the narrow gauge cars in the 55xxxx series with internal heating coils, but the main remaining series of cars were in the 14300 and 15999 series.

 

In the January 1954 ORER, there are 211 cars listed in that range, most of which have 50 ton capacity trucks, but 4 are still listed with 30 ton capacity (the old arch bar trucks, maybe?)

 

In the 1955 tank car tariff, there are still 6500 gallon tank cars listed in the range between 14052 and 14519.  There were no numbers in the 15xxx range in the 1955 tariff.

 

So, I can keep one of Richard’s PSC kitbashes in my long term schedule.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Gates via groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

The January 1952 Condensed Table of Union Tank Car Company Cars lists at least two series of 6500 gallon V cars, not including the narrow gauge cars.

Jim Gates

On Monday, December 21, 2020, 09:53:03 AM CST, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

 

 

Although UTLX did have some 10,000 gallon Type V cars, the model shown is a 6500 gallon car.

 

The main issue, following their use through WWII, was the requirement to convert to AB brakes.  Note that the model has split KD brakes that are mounted directly to the bottom plate of the tank as there was no center sill.  With some built in the first years of the century and none built past 1912, it would appear that UTLX did not deem conversion to AB schedule brakes worth the cost and effort.

 

Note that this type of car, with the K brakes continued in operation for many years beyond 1953 on Colorado narrow gauge rails.

 

It would be interesting to know what was the last standard gauge Type V car in operation and when it was retired?   Certainly, it would have been at or near 1953.

 

Hope this helps.  With the onset of WWII every tank car that was available was pressed into service.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

Hello friends,

I have one of these cars:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Brass-Precision-Scale-10-000-Gallon-Union-Tank-Car-Frameless-15456-Korea/333831012602?hash=item4db9e100fa:g:DE0AAOSw3ZFf3rca

Years ago I have read these were in use until after WWII, but I am sure - if at all - then with other trucks (easy fix). But when I see how small it is and that it doesn't have a seperate frame - I wonder if this design met all requirements for any kind of service around and after WWII - does anyone of you know more?

Many thanks and greetings

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953


Re: Nice undated image of Shell tank car SCCX 673

Robert kirkham
 

Yes, I can’t imagine why two tone makes sense so I guess you are probably right Jim.  

Rob

On Dec 21, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Rob,
  Often the contrast level of these old photos will be 'enhanced' in order to
improve detail - and cause what was a shadow line to resemble a paint
color change ...
                                                                                                          - Jim


Re: UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

vapeurchapelon
 

Jim,
 
many thanks to you, too. I am only interested in standard gauge (at least up to date...).
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Montag, 21. Dezember 2020 um 19:28 Uhr
Von: "Jim Gates via groups.io" <jim.gates@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?
The January 1952 Condensed Table of Union Tank Car Company Cars lists at least two series of 6500 gallon V cars, not including the narrow gauge cars.

Jim Gates

On Monday, December 21, 2020, 09:53:03 AM CST, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:
 
 

Although UTLX did have some 10,000 gallon Type V cars, the model shown is a 6500 gallon car.

 

The main issue, following their use through WWII, was the requirement to convert to AB brakes.  Note that the model has split KD brakes that are mounted directly to the bottom plate of the tank as there was no center sill.  With some built in the first years of the century and none built past 1912, it would appear that UTLX did not deem conversion to AB schedule brakes worth the cost and effort.

 

Note that this type of car, with the K brakes continued in operation for many years beyond 1953 on Colorado narrow gauge rails.

 

It would be interesting to know what was the last standard gauge Type V car in operation and when it was retired?   Certainly, it would have been at or near 1953.

 

Hope this helps.  With the onset of WWII every tank car that was available was pressed into service.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

Hello friends,

I have one of these cars:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Brass-Precision-Scale-10-000-Gallon-Union-Tank-Car-Frameless-15456-Korea/333831012602?hash=item4db9e100fa:g:DE0AAOSw3ZFf3rca

Years ago I have read these were in use until after WWII, but I am sure - if at all - then with other trucks (easy fix). But when I see how small it is and that it doesn't have a seperate frame - I wonder if this design met all requirements for any kind of service around and after WWII - does anyone of you know more?

Many thanks and greetings

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

 


Re: GATX Tank Cars (1960)

Dave Nelson
 

Over on the right… the 6 cars from that end are on rails.  Further in there is what looks like a white arrow was marked on the picture (or negative).  Perhaps that is where the tracks ended.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 3:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GATX Tank Cars (1960)

 

Interesting.  I don't see any rails underneath these cars.

George York


Photo: PFE 23220 (R-30-12)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PFE 23220 (R-30-12)

A photo from Trains Magazine:

https://ctr.trains.com/photo-of-the-day/2020/08/modern-reefer-of-the-1920s

Description:

"Pacific Fruit Express was co-owned by Union Pacific and Southern Pacific. This 40-foot class R-30-12 car, built in 1923, had a wood body and steel underframe. It was typical of the thousands of “modern” refrigerator cars through the 1930s.

Photo by Standard Steel Car Co."

Cars in the R-30-12 class were built in 1920-21 by five different builders (2,000 cars) with another batch (6,800 cars) built in 1922-24 by six builders.

Some of these cars eventually were rebuilt into other classes with new car numbers.

There is quite a bit of information about these cars (with photos) in the PFE book.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

Jim Gates
 

The January 1952 Condensed Table of Union Tank Car Company Cars lists at least two series of 6500 gallon V cars, not including the narrow gauge cars.

Jim Gates

On Monday, December 21, 2020, 09:53:03 AM CST, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:


Although UTLX did have some 10,000 gallon Type V cars, the model shown is a 6500 gallon car.

 

The main issue, following their use through WWII, was the requirement to convert to AB brakes.  Note that the model has split KD brakes that are mounted directly to the bottom plate of the tank as there was no center sill.  With some built in the first years of the century and none built past 1912, it would appear that UTLX did not deem conversion to AB schedule brakes worth the cost and effort.

 

Note that this type of car, with the K brakes continued in operation for many years beyond 1953 on Colorado narrow gauge rails.

 

It would be interesting to know what was the last standard gauge Type V car in operation and when it was retired?   Certainly, it would have been at or near 1953.

 

Hope this helps.  With the onset of WWII every tank car that was available was pressed into service.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

Hello friends,

I have one of these cars:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Brass-Precision-Scale-10-000-Gallon-Union-Tank-Car-Frameless-15456-Korea/333831012602?hash=item4db9e100fa:g:DE0AAOSw3ZFf3rca

Years ago I have read these were in use until after WWII, but I am sure - if at all - then with other trucks (easy fix). But when I see how small it is and that it doesn't have a seperate frame - I wonder if this design met all requirements for any kind of service around and after WWII - does anyone of you know more?

Many thanks and greetings

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953


New item from YMW

Pierre Oliver
 

Todays blog posting
https://elgincarshops.blogspot.com/2020/12/this-has-been-overdue-jig.html

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Re: UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Friends,

Some UTLX Van Dyke cars received underframes and continued in service until at least 1969. There is a photo of a 4K car of this type with underframe, AB brakes and cast steel trucks in John Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS v. 2.

As for shipyards, commercial yards did not always have such restrictions. Witness the attached 1982 photo of a partially home-built tank car was taken at Norfolk Shipbuilding & Dry Dock. Maybe I was able to get away this photo because I was a Coast Guard photographer, and had been admitted to shoot pictures one of our cutters under repair, or maybe nobody was looking.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  

On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 11:11 AM erieblt2 <williamfsmith22@...> wrote:
Navy shipyards used ‘outlawed’  (banned in interchanged) equipment. Many arch-bar trucks, etc. I saw a frameless tank car at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard back in the seventies. I’ve seen other ‘dinosaurs’ at other shipyards. Probably other industries used in-plant interchange banned cars. NO photography allowed on naval bases.  Bill Smith


On Dec 21, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:



Although UTLX did have some 10,000 gallon Type V cars, the model shown is a 6500 gallon car.

 

The main issue, following their use through WWII, was the requirement to convert to AB brakes.  Note that the model has split KD brakes that are mounted directly to the bottom plate of the tank as there was no center sill.  With some built in the first years of the century and none built past 1912, it would appear that UTLX did not deem conversion to AB schedule brakes worth the cost and effort.

 

Note that this type of car, with the K brakes continued in operation for many years beyond 1953 on Colorado narrow gauge rails.

 

It would be interesting to know what was the last standard gauge Type V car in operation and when it was retired?   Certainly, it would have been at or near 1953.

 

Hope this helps.  With the onset of WWII every tank car that was available was pressed into service.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

Hello friends,

I have one of these cars:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Brass-Precision-Scale-10-000-Gallon-Union-Tank-Car-Frameless-15456-Korea/333831012602?hash=item4db9e100fa:g:DE0AAOSw3ZFf3rca

Years ago I have read these were in use until after WWII, but I am sure - if at all - then with other trucks (easy fix). But when I see how small it is and that it doesn't have a seperate frame - I wonder if this design met all requirements for any kind of service around and after WWII - does anyone of you know more?

Many thanks and greetings

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953


Re: UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

vapeurchapelon
 

Jack, Steve, Bill,
 
many thanks for your comments.
Jack, that article contains just exactly what I needed to know:
 
"Still, some of them remained in revenue service into the early 1950s."
 
Lots of thanks!
 
And many greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Montag, 21. Dezember 2020 um 16:50 Uhr
Von: "Jack Burgess" <jack@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

Johannes…

 

Attached is an article that freight car expert Richard Hendrickson wrote about them in 1995. Note sure if it will help though.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 7:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

Hello friends,

I have one of these cars:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Brass-Precision-Scale-10-000-Gallon-Union-Tank-Car-Frameless-15456-Korea/333831012602?hash=item4db9e100fa:g:DE0AAOSw3ZFf3rca

Years ago I have read these were in use until after WWII, but I am sure - if at all - then with other trucks (easy fix). But when I see how small it is and that it doesn't have a seperate frame - I wonder if this design met all requirements for any kind of service around and after WWII - does anyone of you know more?

Many thanks and greetings

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 


Re: UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

erieblt2
 

Navy shipyards used ‘outlawed’  (banned in interchanged) equipment. Many arch-bar trucks, etc. I saw a frameless tank car at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard back in the seventies. I’ve seen other ‘dinosaurs’ at other shipyards. Probably other industries used in-plant interchange banned cars. NO photography allowed on naval bases.  Bill Smith


On Dec 21, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:



Although UTLX did have some 10,000 gallon Type V cars, the model shown is a 6500 gallon car.

 

The main issue, following their use through WWII, was the requirement to convert to AB brakes.  Note that the model has split KD brakes that are mounted directly to the bottom plate of the tank as there was no center sill.  With some built in the first years of the century and none built past 1912, it would appear that UTLX did not deem conversion to AB schedule brakes worth the cost and effort.

 

Note that this type of car, with the K brakes continued in operation for many years beyond 1953 on Colorado narrow gauge rails.

 

It would be interesting to know what was the last standard gauge Type V car in operation and when it was retired?   Certainly, it would have been at or near 1953.

 

Hope this helps.  With the onset of WWII every tank car that was available was pressed into service.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] UTLX frameless tank car - how long in revenue service?

 

Hello friends,

I have one of these cars:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Brass-Precision-Scale-10-000-Gallon-Union-Tank-Car-Frameless-15456-Korea/333831012602?hash=item4db9e100fa:g:DE0AAOSw3ZFf3rca

Years ago I have read these were in use until after WWII, but I am sure - if at all - then with other trucks (easy fix). But when I see how small it is and that it doesn't have a seperate frame - I wonder if this design met all requirements for any kind of service around and after WWII - does anyone of you know more?

Many thanks and greetings

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953


Re: Nice undated image of Shell tank car SCCX 673

Jim Betz
 

Rob,
  Often the contrast level of these old photos will be 'enhanced' in order to
improve detail - and cause what was a shadow line to resemble a paint
color change ...
                                                                                                          - Jim

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