Date   

Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

Lee
 

Wood pipe was used out West as well. Yuma AZ installed it in the late 1880’s using redwood. It was replaced some years later although as recent as 2008 sections were recovered during road and utility work in the oldest part of town were the redwood water pipe was installed originally. Slats about two inches wide, inch thick.  Cut on angle along the long side to make 10,12,14 sided pipe, depending on the diameter.  What’s also if interest is that the still existing SP freight house was, of significant portions , constructed of redwood. 
I have photos of the recovery pipe somewhere....
Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA (formerly from Yuma) 


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

mopacfirst
 

There are at least three different types of wood pipe.  The earliest type, bored-out tree trunks, is too early for our interest as freight car loads.  The first picture in this thread, of stave pipe with metal (probably steel wire) bands, is suitable for pressure service, meaning water distribution.  There's a lot of non-potable water distribution, but that's a good question whether any of it was ever used for utility potable water distribution.  Redwood, as I understand it, doesn't need preservatives like creosote.

And, the banded stave pipe very likely was used a lot for sewer, meaning non-pressure, piping.  The type shown in Bruce's photo is probably non-pressure given its wall thickness and construction method.  But the point is well-taken that WWII probably prolonged the use of anything that could be made wholly or in part of non-strategic metals, such as freight cars.

Ron Merrick


Off Topic Request

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Friends,

I am looking for the plans to L&WV/Laurel Line freight motors 401-403. These were in the September 1972 RMC. I only need the plans, not the whole article.

Is there anyone here who can send me a scan?

Thanks in advance.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Re: PRR X30

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Dave,

Consider that this car was unique, thus of great interest to rail photographers who often tend toward recording what is rare and different. Also consider that a new fire engine was a big event for many communities, so the car was often documented by non-railfan photographers.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 6:58 PM David via groups.io <jaydeet2001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
As much as this thing got around, it's a bit surprising Pennsy only had
the one.

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-308/

David Thompson






Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

Paul Krueger
 

Actually, the caption probably is correct. Pacific Creosoting had a plant at Eagle Harbor on Bainbridge Island that was served by the MILW via rail barge.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

Dave Parker
 

Maybe TMI, but I found it interesting:

http://www.sewerhistory.org/photosgraphics/pipes-wood/

Two obvious possibilities:  1) creosoted pipe not intended for potable water, (2) creosote only applied to the outside.  If the the latter, it may have been more to protect the iron banding against corrosion.

And Bruce's photo is there, with a bit more info.  
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

Douglas Harding
 

I completely agree with the generally accepted practice that wood water pipes were common through WWII, particularly out west (here in the mid-west lead pipes were the standard). But creosote? I cannot imagine drinking water that came from creosoted pipes. Why you can even drink out of an ordinary garden hose these days, it must be a white hose designated for potable water. Could these creosoted wood pipes be destined for sewar or storm water drainage?

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 10:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

 

Bill,

 

Wood pipes were clearly sold through WWII (I have the advertisements!) and those were not specified as replacement only. I'm sure that they were used wherever appropriate, for example for potable water. Here's an image of a load of Armco wood pipe in a NYC gondola. After all, steel was being rationed!

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Parks via groups.io <BPARKS_43@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 10:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

 

I do consulting work with utility companies, and even though my main area is with meters, I have picked up a lot of useless information about the electric, gas and water industries.  My understanding is WW1 is roughly the end of wooden pipes (as far as new installations).  And truthfully, after around 1900, it was a rarity to install them as part of a new system.

That being said, the picture is from 1935, so somebody somewhere was still buying then.  What we don't know is what the pipes in the picture were used for.  I doubt they were going for a new installation (but I could be wrong).  My guess is they were going for repair/replacement of existing wooden pipes where the water company wasn't ready yet for a wholesale replacement of their system.  Truthfully, I was surprised to see a picture of them this late, and I doubt any wooden pipes were built after WW2.

--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

Bruce Smith
 

Bill,

Wood pipes were clearly sold through WWII (I have the advertisements!) and those were not specified as replacement only. I'm sure that they were used wherever appropriate, for example for potable water. Here's an image of a load of Armco wood pipe in a NYC gondola. After all, steel was being rationed!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Parks via groups.io <BPARKS_43@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 10:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)
 
I do consulting work with utility companies, and even though my main area is with meters, I have picked up a lot of useless information about the electric, gas and water industries.  My understanding is WW1 is roughly the end of wooden pipes (as far as new installations).  And truthfully, after around 1900, it was a rarity to install them as part of a new system.

That being said, the picture is from 1935, so somebody somewhere was still buying then.  What we don't know is what the pipes in the picture were used for.  I doubt they were going for a new installation (but I could be wrong).  My guess is they were going for repair/replacement of existing wooden pipes where the water company wasn't ready yet for a wholesale replacement of their system.  Truthfully, I was surprised to see a picture of them this late, and I doubt any wooden pipes were built after WW2.

--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

Charles Peck
 

Maybe the pipes might not have been intended for municipal  system .  Perhap there 
was some industrial use for brine or something else reactive to iron pipe. 
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 11:07 PM Bill Parks via groups.io <BPARKS_43=YAHOO.COM@groups.io> wrote:
I do consulting work with utility companies, and even though my main area is with meters, I have picked up a lot of useless information about the electric, gas and water industries.  My understanding is WW1 is roughly the end of wooden pipes (as far as new installations).  And truthfully, after around 1900, it was a rarity to install them as part of a new system.

That being said, the picture is from 1935, so somebody somewhere was still buying then.  What we don't know is what the pipes in the picture were used for.  I doubt they were going for a new installation (but I could be wrong).  My guess is they were going for repair/replacement of existing wooden pipes where the water company wasn't ready yet for a wholesale replacement of their system.  Truthfully, I was surprised to see a picture of them this late, and I doubt any wooden pipes were built after WW2.

--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

earlyrail
 

Description:

"Workers at the Pacific Creosoting Company plant on Bainbridge Island are loading creosoted wood water pipe on a Great Northern Railway wood flatcar. Wooden pipe allowed economical distribution of water in cities and towns around King County. Similar products were produced at the West Coast Wood Preserving Company plant in West Seattle."


Caption is not correct.
Bainbridge Island never had rail service.

Howard Garner


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

Bill Parks
 

I do consulting work with utility companies, and even though my main area is with meters, I have picked up a lot of useless information about the electric, gas and water industries.  My understanding is WW1 is roughly the end of wooden pipes (as far as new installations).  And truthfully, after around 1900, it was a rarity to install them as part of a new system.

That being said, the picture is from 1935, so somebody somewhere was still buying then.  What we don't know is what the pipes in the picture were used for.  I doubt they were going for a new installation (but I could be wrong).  My guess is they were going for repair/replacement of existing wooden pipes where the water company wasn't ready yet for a wholesale replacement of their system.  Truthfully, I was surprised to see a picture of them this late, and I doubt any wooden pipes were built after WW2.

--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida


Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

Andy Carlson
 

Less than 10 years ago, the city of Fort Bragg California (Home to the "Skunk" California Western RR) replaced their last community redwood water pipes. These were rifle drilled logs with an iron wire wrap. My understanding was that wood water pipes were at one time quite common.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Wednesday, December 23, 2020, 5:43:21 PM PST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


If anyone on this list is a member of AWWA (American Water Works Association) or can find the AWWA Journal in a library, there might be a history of water distribution.  AWWA was founded in 1881 so they were around for this.  I'm not sure there ever was an AWWA standard for wooden stave pipe, at least I can't come up with one.

I suspect it was a regional thing.  In the east, home to the NEWWA (Northeastern Water Works Association), cast iron pipe would have been favored, while the west and northwest would have leaned toward the wooden stave pipe, while the areas in between could have leaned toward one or the other on the basis of transportation costs by way of railroad flatcar.

There were probably essentially no new installations of stave pipe after World War II.

Ron Merrick, piping engineer
_._,_._,_


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

Kenneth Montero
 

A Google search finds that wood pipe was used in East Coast cities when municipal water was initially installed. In Philadelphia, it was done from 1899 to 1832, even though cast iron pipe started to be installed in 1819. Richmond, Virginia had wood pipe in its Church Hill neighborhood and probably followed the Philadelphia practice.
 
A better question is whether wood pipe was replaced with wood pipe during the time span of interest to this group - and, if so, where - to justify a carload of such pipes.
 
Ken Montero

On 12/23/2020 8:43 PM mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:
 
 
If anyone on this list is a member of AWWA (American Water Works Association) or can find the AWWA Journal in a library, there might be a history of water distribution.  AWWA was founded in 1881 so they were around for this.  I'm not sure there ever was an AWWA standard for wooden stave pipe, at least I can't come up with one.

I suspect it was a regional thing.  In the east, home to the NEWWA (Northeastern Water Works Association), cast iron pipe would have been favored, while the west and northwest would have leaned toward the wooden stave pipe, while the areas in between could have leaned toward one or the other on the basis of transportation costs by way of railroad flatcar.

There were probably essentially no new installations of stave pipe after World War II.

Ron Merrick, piping engineer


Re: Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

mopacfirst
 

If anyone on this list is a member of AWWA (American Water Works Association) or can find the AWWA Journal in a library, there might be a history of water distribution.  AWWA was founded in 1881 so they were around for this.  I'm not sure there ever was an AWWA standard for wooden stave pipe, at least I can't come up with one.

I suspect it was a regional thing.  In the east, home to the NEWWA (Northeastern Water Works Association), cast iron pipe would have been favored, while the west and northwest would have leaned toward the wooden stave pipe, while the areas in between could have leaned toward one or the other on the basis of transportation costs by way of railroad flatcar.

There were probably essentially no new installations of stave pipe after World War II.

Ron Merrick, piping engineer


Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Loading Treated Water Pipe (1935)

A photo from the University of Washington Libraries:

https://digitalcollections.lib.washington.edu/digital/collection/imlsrailway/id/84/rec/521

This photo can be enlarged.

Description:

"Workers at the Pacific Creosoting Company plant on Bainbridge Island are loading creosoted wood water pipe on a Great Northern Railway wood flatcar. Wooden pipe allowed economical distribution of water in cities and towns around King County. Similar products were produced at the West Coast Wood Preserving Company plant in West Seattle."

Not a railroad question but does anyone know when wooden pipe fell out of favor?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


PRR X30

David
 

As much as this thing got around, it's a bit surprising Pennsy only had the one.

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-308/

David Thompson


Re: Interesting cars on the left

Bill Parks
 

I have seen similar pictures where the SAL took the tank from an old tank car, and mounted it on a bulkhead flat (and also a normal flat) and used them as a MOW car

--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida


Re: Photo: Eight Boxcars Of Pork And Beans (1960)

Larry Buell
 

When I was asst. Road Master out of Topeka, we had a Van Camps facility in Lawrence, Kansas.  It was the number one shipper in Lawrence.

L Buell


Re: Interesting cars on the left

Mike Clements
 

I was scrolling through the photos and saw this message string never got a solid reply. I'm pretty sure this is not Wilmington Jct., it is Lowell Jct....Liquid Carbonic (today Praxair-Linde) was/is just down the track at Shawsheen Street in Tewksbury on the Lowell Branch. I'm guessing these are early cryo tank cars with refrigeration in the end compartment. I've gone through their sidetrack agreement, I'm pretty sure it dates back at this far. Of course, Reichold Chemical was right there as well and the XM-1 is in the right spot to act as a buffer for that switch, but I'm sticking with my first answer.

Mike Clements
Wakefield, MA
nyc65.wordpress.com


Re: Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

Larry Wolohon
 

Brasstrains.com sells some wrappers for brass models similar to what Reboxx once sold. Larry Wolohon
 
 

On 12/17/2020 2:07 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
 
 

When REBOXX was selling boxes, they had researched “the best” plastic wrappers for models, in part because one of the workers had had very unfortunate experienced with wrapping models he’d custom painted and his customers finding . . . problems.  Unfortunately, none of the surviving personnel remember what it was.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

Gary, with my moving, packing HO rolling stock has been a concern. Damage was occurring until I began using these products.

To protect each car I do use pieces of this foam, with additional pieces to line the boxes https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-787P/Foam/Foam-Roll-Perforated-1-16-24-x-1250

I use these boxes https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-3189/Indestructo-and-Literature-Mailers/23-x-13-x-2-1-2-White-Literature-Mailers

The boxes are perfect for rows of HO cars or engines.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Roe
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 9:20 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Calling All Chemists - Somewhat OT

 

Admittedly, this post is not about Steam Era Freight Car models; but the transportation and/or storage of same.

 

I do not have a layout, so virtually all of my models 'live' in a box.....usually the one they came in.  Once they are built, painted, and weathered, in my mind it is not preferable to stick them back in a box unprotected.  I recently 'discovered' something that I think is the answer; but knowing my luck, it will probably be detrimental to the model and/or its finish.  That's why I seek the advice of someone who knows.

 

The material I was thinking of using is a very thin, very soft, pliable plastic.  The source is my grocery store.  It is the bags they have in dispensers in the fruits and vegetables section.  I can find nothing that tells what kind of plastic it is, only that it is classified as a No. 2 Recyclable, and made by Unistar Plastics.

 

Will this stuff end up adhering itself to my models, or perform some other regrettable act of violence toward them?

 

Thanks in advance for tolerance of this subject, and any insight.

 

gary roe

quincy, illinois

 

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