Date   

Re: Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

Eric Hansmann
 

Doug,

 

Is Cudahy 5557 a Mather car? It’s marked for return to E. Chicago where Mather had their plant. The car ends are a different design from later Mather cars.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 8:24 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Phil, they are what we commonly call 36’ wood reefers. Attached is the photo of the Cudahy reefer #5557 that closely matches the Atlas model. And at the photo of Swift 9863. 5557 was built in 1928 and Atlas says they used a car built in 1925, so there may have been differences. An ORER would list the dimensions you are asking about. I’m with family right now and don’t have access to my library right now. But general dimensions would be close.

 

Let me reiterate that Swift had a wide variety in their reefer fleet, which changed consistently as reefers went off lease and were replace with other reefers. Some new and some coming off other leases. Steve Hile and others are working on compiling information about the Swift reefer fleet, but the task has been daunting due to a lack of concrete information. Most of what is known is from photos.

 

If you want an accurate Swift reefer model, the Sunshine models are the best I know about. Everything else will be a compromise. For my modeling purposes I have a fleet of the Atlas cars painted and lettered for the Decker meat packing plant on my layout, along with a fleet of the MDC 36’ wood reefer and the newer Rapido meat reefer. Each is a different car with differences in dimensions and details. I’m willing to accept the compromise to have some slight variety in my overall meat reefer fleet.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Sunshine vinegar car

Lester Breuer
 

Clark  One great build by Your friend.  I built one and have it on my blog

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/search/label/tank%20car

I would not sell sell it for less then $200 plus.

Lester Breuer


Re: 50' Mather stock cars

William Hirt
 

On the Burlington, the main purpose of the enlarged Mather cars was to haul hogs from western Illinois to Tobin Packing in Rochester and Albany NY. These cars could hold up to 200 hogs, so they were preferred by the packing house and shippers. However, based on a presentation by Steve Holding (a retired CB&Q-BN-BNSF dispatcher and who grew up on a hog farm in western Illinois), most of the Mather 50 foot car use on the Burlington came after the 1960 limit of this list (1965).

Bill Hirt

On 1/4/2021 7:03 AM, Mat Thompson wrote:

The question I remember was simple – didn’t the 50 foot cars create a problem with lining them up with the ramps on older stock pens? My answer was yes but did comment that I have some pens built with ramp spacing for 50 foot cars and that information was included on the note the company rep provide the conductor. I didn’t think about it at the time but many pens had platforms trackside. Drovers would put up temporary fences to herd animals onto the ramps.

 

The article to build these cars was in the January 1998 Model Railroader, written by Jim Teese. It includes one picture of an NKP prototype. He says Mather began joining cars in 1952. He also said he ordered Bulletin #25 from the Burlington Route Historical Society  which contained some information on the cars. That Bulletin is still listed on their website.

 

Jeff Wilson has  a picture of CB&Q 50237 on page 17 of his book Livestock & Meatpacking. Jeff notes that most conversions were double deck but a few were shingle deck.

 

._,_


Re: T-Section Trucks

Eric Hansmann
 

Here's a 2016 blog post on the Walthers T-section Bettendorf sprung trucks that I converted to solid.
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2016/09/09/t-section-bettendorf-trucks/

I believe the Walthers products are from the old Trains-Miniature tooling. They had not been available for several years when I noticed they were listed as NEW on the Walthers website under their Proto line in the months before the September 2016 blog post.

Of course, within a few months after upgrading the ten pair of trucks and posting the work, Kadee released their version in the HGC material with solid sides.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On 01/03/2021 12:05 PM Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:


Walthers # 920-2007 (sprung trucks).

Kadee also makes the T-section truck with solid sides (no working springs) - # 572 and 724. The also make a leaf spring solid side truck - # 581 and 1581.

Red Caboose made a truck similar to the solid side Kadee truck, but I don't see it for sale on the InterMountain site.

Ken Montero



Re: Sunshine vinegar car

Scott Kremer
 

Someone else can verify but I beleive Ted Culotta's went for about $500.  It seems a lot, and it is, but I know some who have done this car and it can be 100 hours of work.  That makes the price less than minimum wage. : > )


On Jan 4, 2021, at 10:48 AM, Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:

My good friend Bob is an old curmudgeon that doesn’t partake of any social media including i o lists. So, he was not aware aware of that fact that this kit is at the pinnacle  
 
of tough builds. He, I and a few others would get together two-three times a week to operate and BS over coffee. I haven’t seen any of them in months, just a few emails. So I didn’t know about this build till he was almost done. Good thing. I would have done my best to talk him into selling the kit...Now he has a real prize!

For my own curiosity, anyone have an idea of what this would go for on eBay, or outright sale? I'd like to hold that carrot in front of him...LOL!
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
 
 
 
<SBIX 1682 1.jpg><SBIX 1682 2.jpg><SBIX 1682 3.jpg>


Sunshine vinegar car

Clark Propst
 

My good friend Bob is an old curmudgeon that doesn’t partake of any social media including i o lists. So, he was not aware aware of that fact that this kit is at the pinnacle  

 

of tough builds. He, I and a few others would get together two-three times a week to operate and BS over coffee. I haven’t seen any of them in months, just a few emails. So I didn’t know about this build till he was almost done. Good thing. I would have done my best to talk him into selling the kit...Now he has a real prize!

For my own curiosity, anyone have an idea of what this would go for on eBay, or outright sale? I'd like to hold that carrot in front of him...LOL!
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
 
 
 


Re: Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

william darnaby
 

There is an excellent color photo of Swift 6544 in red paint and with 4 hinges on the back cover of the Morning Sun Refrigerator Car Color Guide.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 8:06 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Garth that photo is of a 6 hinge car. The question is about a 4 hinge car.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:03 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Phil and Doug,

 

Does this attached photo of a Swift refrigerator car on the WP from my collection help your discussion?

 

Yours Aye,

 

 


Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Clark Propst
 

Stan Rydarowicz sold a kit for this car. There are two finished models in a late friends estate. If anyone is interested in them I can put you in contact with the person doing the liquidating?

Please contact me off list

Clark Propst

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Douglas Harding
 

Ah, now that I  know the question I can answer. Mont makes an excellent point. At many rural locations there was only one loading chute at the local stockpens, so car length was not an issue. Each car had to be spotted. At the large “union” stockyards, the unloading platform often ran the entire length of the pens, as seen in the attached photo of the LA stockyards. These platforms were equipped with swing gates that could be extended. These gates accommodated a car that was not spotted exactly at the chute.

 

The CBQ had an extensive fleet of 36’ stockcars. In the early 60’s Mather rebuilt ex B&O stockcars that came off lease into 50’ cars that were leased to the CBQ (and painted Chinese Red). These cars were no doubt unloaded in Omaha, Chicago and other major stockyards with lots of consternation by crews because of the differences in car length.

 

Remember that there were also 86’ pig palaces and the UP had 60’ HOGX cars. These were all accommodated at loading and unloading facilities by the railroads.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 7:42 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 50' Mather stock cars

 

All,

 

When we talk about stock cars we usually think of long cuts of them loaded with enough cattle to be called a herd.  In my part of the country there were a lot of hog farmers who took their fattened hogs to the local stock yard when ready  This resulted in single car pickups with their cars spotted for this or live loading on a local train.  This was almost always one car at a time and the hogs moved a relatively short distance.  Fifty foot cars would not be a problem for this.

 

Mont


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Mat Thompson [ocrr@...]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 8:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 50' Mather stock cars

The question I remember was simple – didn’t the 50 foot cars create a problem with lining them up with the ramps on older stock pens? My answer was yes but did comment that I have some pens built with ramp spacing for 50 foot cars and that information was included on the note the company rep provide the conductor. I didn’t think about it at the time but many pens had platforms trackside. Drovers would put up temporary fences to herd animals onto the ramps.

 

The article to build these cars was in the January 1998 Model Railroader, written by Jim Teese. It includes one picture of an NKP prototype. He says Mather began joining cars in 1952. He also said he ordered Bulletin #25 from the Burlington Route Historical Society  which contained some information on the cars. That Bulletin is still listed on their website.

 

Jeff Wilson has  a picture of CB&Q 50237 on page 17 of his book Livestock & Meatpacking. Jeff notes that most conversions were double deck but a few were shingle deck.

 

Mat Thompson

 

See the Oregon Coast Railroad

 

 


Re: Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

Douglas Harding
 

Phil, they are what we commonly call 36’ wood reefers. Attached is the photo of the Cudahy reefer #5557 that closely matches the Atlas model. And at the photo of Swift 9863. 5557 was built in 1928 and Atlas says they used a car built in 1925, so there may have been differences. An ORER would list the dimensions you are asking about. I’m with family right now and don’t have access to my library right now. But general dimensions would be close.

 

Let me reiterate that Swift had a wide variety in their reefer fleet, which changed consistently as reefers went off lease and were replace with other reefers. Some new and some coming off other leases. Steve Hile and others are working on compiling information about the Swift reefer fleet, but the task has been daunting due to a lack of concrete information. Most of what is known is from photos.

 

If you want an accurate Swift reefer model, the Sunshine models are the best I know about. Everything else will be a compromise. For my modeling purposes I have a fleet of the Atlas cars painted and lettered for the Decker meat packing plant on my layout, along with a fleet of the MDC 36’ wood reefer and the newer Rapido meat reefer. Each is a different car with differences in dimensions and details. I’m willing to accept the compromise to have some slight variety in my overall meat reefer fleet.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 11:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Thanks for the info, Doug, and I am referring to the Atlas wood meat reefer. I see in the linked thread in the OP that you posted a few photos of Swift 4906, 9863, and a few other Swift wood reefers; I should have clarified that your photos were those I was referring to. I was just wondering if these were close to the Atlas reefer dimensionally.

-Phil 


Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Steve SANDIFER
 

Excellent clinic. Most modelers seem to think it is stock cars in, reefers out.  Ha. 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mat Thompson
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 7:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 50' Mather stock cars

 

The question I remember was simple – didn’t the 50 foot cars create a problem with lining them up with the ramps on older stock pens? My answer was yes but did comment that I have some pens built with ramp spacing for 50 foot cars and that information was included on the note the company rep provide the conductor. I didn’t think about it at the time but many pens had platforms trackside. Drovers would put up temporary fences to herd animals onto the ramps.

 

The article to build these cars was in the January 1998 Model Railroader, written by Jim Teese. It includes one picture of an NKP prototype. He says Mather began joining cars in 1952. He also said he ordered Bulletin #25 from the Burlington Route Historical Society  which contained some information on the cars. That Bulletin is still listed on their website.

 

Jeff Wilson has  a picture of CB&Q 50237 on page 17 of his book Livestock & Meatpacking. Jeff notes that most conversions were double deck but a few were shingle deck.

 

Mat Thompson

 

See the Oregon Coast Railroad

 

 


Re: Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

Douglas Harding
 

Garth that photo is of a 6 hinge car. The question is about a 4 hinge car.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:03 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Phil and Doug,

 

Does this attached photo of a Swift refrigerator car on the WP from my collection help your discussion?

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 12:23 AM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

Phil I assume you are asking about the Atlas wood 36’ wood meat reefer with 4 hinges. I believe it has been offered in a Swift p/l scheme. Atlas claims the wood meat reefer model is based upon a Cudahy reefer built circa 1925. This model was discussed at length when it was first produced as the details did not match any known prototype at the time. And no one had seen a photo of a Cudahy reefer that matched the model. Several years later I found a photo of a Cudahy reefer that is very close to the Atlas model, which I shared with Richard Hendrickson and he published in his Billboard Reefer book.

 

In the link you offered all the Swift reefers pictured are later steel reefers with a horizontal seam, from a single series of Swift reefers. Swift had a wide and diverse fleet of reefers. But I am not aware of any that matches the Atlas model exactly. Some of their wood reefers might be close. But not their steel reefers.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 8:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Is the Atlas 4-hinge reefer close to the Swift 4-hinge prototypes? I've compared the Atlas reefer (a CRLX prototype) to photos at the below link, and the bodies seem pretty close to me beyond differences in the underframe crossbearers and a thin "sub-fascia" underneath the white roof fascia. Of course I could have missed some major details. I'm wondering if any of you are aware of major dimensional differences in the Atlas and Swift prototypes or other differences beyond the ones I've seen.

Thanks,
Phil

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup/topic/swift_reefer_notes_door/60777034?20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,60777034


Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Mont Switzer
 

All,

 

When we talk about stock cars we usually think of long cuts of them loaded with enough cattle to be called a herd.  In my part of the country there were a lot of hog farmers who took their fattened hogs to the local stock yard when ready  This resulted in single car pickups with their cars spotted for this or live loading on a local train.  This was almost always one car at a time and the hogs moved a relatively short distance.  Fifty foot cars would not be a problem for this.

 

Mont


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Mat Thompson [ocrr@...]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 8:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 50' Mather stock cars

The question I remember was simple – didn’t the 50 foot cars create a problem with lining them up with the ramps on older stock pens? My answer was yes but did comment that I have some pens built with ramp spacing for 50 foot cars and that information was included on the note the company rep provide the conductor. I didn’t think about it at the time but many pens had platforms trackside. Drovers would put up temporary fences to herd animals onto the ramps.

 

The article to build these cars was in the January 1998 Model Railroader, written by Jim Teese. It includes one picture of an NKP prototype. He says Mather began joining cars in 1952. He also said he ordered Bulletin #25 from the Burlington Route Historical Society  which contained some information on the cars. That Bulletin is still listed on their website.

 

Jeff Wilson has  a picture of CB&Q 50237 on page 17 of his book Livestock & Meatpacking. Jeff notes that most conversions were double deck but a few were shingle deck.

 

Mat Thompson

 

See the Oregon Coast Railroad

 

 


Re: Boiler Load On Flat Car

jerryglow2
 

I will be including that with the boiler lettering sets


Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Mat Thompson
 

The question I remember was simple – didn’t the 50 foot cars create a problem with lining them up with the ramps on older stock pens? My answer was yes but did comment that I have some pens built with ramp spacing for 50 foot cars and that information was included on the note the company rep provide the conductor. I didn’t think about it at the time but many pens had platforms trackside. Drovers would put up temporary fences to herd animals onto the ramps.

 

The article to build these cars was in the January 1998 Model Railroader, written by Jim Teese. It includes one picture of an NKP prototype. He says Mather began joining cars in 1952. He also said he ordered Bulletin #25 from the Burlington Route Historical Society  which contained some information on the cars. That Bulletin is still listed on their website.

 

Jeff Wilson has  a picture of CB&Q 50237 on page 17 of his book Livestock & Meatpacking. Jeff notes that most conversions were double deck but a few were shingle deck.

 

Mat Thompson

 

See the Oregon Coast Railroad

 

 


Re: T-Section Trucks

greg snook
 

RJ,
I love the weathering on the deck of your flat car.  Could you please share your methods for that?  I have one Owl Mountain flat car awaiting decals, and would love to weather it as well as you have.
Thanks
Greg Snook


Re: Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Phil and Doug,

Does this attached photo of a Swift refrigerator car on the WP from my collection help your discussion?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 12:23 AM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

Phil I assume you are asking about the Atlas wood 36’ wood meat reefer with 4 hinges. I believe it has been offered in a Swift p/l scheme. Atlas claims the wood meat reefer model is based upon a Cudahy reefer built circa 1925. This model was discussed at length when it was first produced as the details did not match any known prototype at the time. And no one had seen a photo of a Cudahy reefer that matched the model. Several years later I found a photo of a Cudahy reefer that is very close to the Atlas model, which I shared with Richard Hendrickson and he published in his Billboard Reefer book.

 

In the link you offered all the Swift reefers pictured are later steel reefers with a horizontal seam, from a single series of Swift reefers. Swift had a wide and diverse fleet of reefers. But I am not aware of any that matches the Atlas model exactly. Some of their wood reefers might be close. But not their steel reefers.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 8:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

 

Is the Atlas 4-hinge reefer close to the Swift 4-hinge prototypes? I've compared the Atlas reefer (a CRLX prototype) to photos at the below link, and the bodies seem pretty close to me beyond differences in the underframe crossbearers and a thin "sub-fascia" underneath the white roof fascia. Of course I could have missed some major details. I'm wondering if any of you are aware of major dimensional differences in the Atlas and Swift prototypes or other differences beyond the ones I've seen.

Thanks,
Phil

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup/topic/swift_reefer_notes_door/60777034?20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,60777034


Re: T-Section Trucks

Dave Parker
 

Based on the comments in the OP, RJ is not interested in sprung trucks.  So there are exactly four options for "solid" T-section Bettendorfs in HO scale.

Kadee 572/1572
Walthers 1009
MTH
Red Caboose

Only the Kadee is currently offered as a stand-alone part.  They are nicely done, although I am not a big fan of the "self-centering" feature. 

I have freed up a couple of MTH and Red Caboose sets by swapping as was mentioned earlier.  But it's a limited resource for most of us.  The Walthers 1009s are meh, but can be had fairly cheap on eBay.

I can't be optimistic about any "new" offerings.  Unofficially at least, Brian Leppert is on record as being retired from doing any new TMW tooling.  It sounds like Owl Mountain is set for quite a while with their existing stash of RC trucks.  I plan on working with the status quo, but of course would welcome any good new when it comes to pre-1920 truck designs.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Atlas Swift 4-hinge reefer

nyc3001 .
 

Thanks for the info, Doug, and I am referring to the Atlas wood meat reefer. I see in the linked thread in the OP that you posted a few photos of Swift 4906, 9863, and a few other Swift wood reefers; I should have clarified that your photos were those I was referring to. I was just wondering if these were close to the Atlas reefer dimensionally.

-Phil 


Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Douglas Harding
 

Steve are you referring to Mat Thompson’s presentation on Operations at his Swift Meat packing plant? I was not able to participate in the OpSig event, so I did not hear the question. I am familiar with Mat’s presentation and I know he does use some 50’ Mather cars that he kitbashed from the Lifelike PK2 models.

 

Regarding the 50’ Mather stockcars, you covered the basic information about the cars. I’m not sure I can add much more. Stan Radarowyche (sp) offered parts to kitbash two PK2 stockcars into a 50’ car. And I believe he published an article on how to do the kitbash. As these cars were created after my modeling era, I have not paid a lot of attention to them.

 

If I knew what was the question I might be able to help answer.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 8:07 PM
To: Steam Freight Car <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] 50' Mather stock cars

 

I assume many of this group are on the OpSig group that discussed Live Stock Operations today. The question concerned the 50’ Mather stock cars.

 

Mather cars were generally leased cars. Beginning in 1952 Mather spliced together pairs of 40’ cars, retaining the doors of both cars, producing a 50’ stock car. Cars in that configuration were operated by the

NKP (Photo 42023 1966)

NYC (as NISX painted Jade Green in 1966). The NISX cars were frequently seen on the Q. Photo NISX 3169 Freight Cars - Lake States Railway Historical Association (lakestatesarchive.org) and Freight Cars - Lake States Railway Historical Association (lakestatesarchive.org)

CB&Q, 40 cars (50200-50239) for use in sheep and hog service which lasted until at least 1968.

Maybe Doug or someone else can add more details to this discussion.

 

For more info:

Burlington Bulletin, No. 25

Model Railroader, January, 1998

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

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