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Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Meaning that these cars should be on the BBFCL, or the MFCL, not here.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2021 10:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 50' Mather stock cars

 


I am stunned to see that CB&Q still rostered 2,300 stock cars in 1965! Only 97 of them were 50 foot cars.


On 1/4/2021 7:45 PM, Ray Breyer via groups.io wrote:

I haven't been able to find any evidence of the 50-foot cars being converted in 1952. 1962 is more likely a correct date, but by then Mather didn't exist.

 

Where did the 1952 date come from? I'm working on a full timeline of Mather from 1880-1956, and I'd love to see that data.

 

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Canopy Glue vs. CA

Todd Sullivan
 

Hi Darrall,

I use Woodland Scenics Hob-E-Tak, which I believe is similar to canopy glue.  Hob-E-Tak is great for tacking resin kit parts in position before adding CA, and it will hold parts together if they are not exposed to bumping and handling.  I used it throughout my constriction of an F&C NP 36ft boxcar, and it made alignment of parts much easier.  Two other examples: I used it to glue a styrene toolbox on the pilot deck of a P2K USRA 0-8-0 that I detailed for someone else.  The toolbox had to be removable in order to disassemble the loco to maintain lights, etc.  I also used it to secure cab awnings to a P2K USRA 0-6-0.  The awnings had attachment pins, but they did not keep the awnings on the cab.  Only one of the Hob-E-Tak'd awnings has come off, and it was easily re-attached without more glue.

I hope this helps.

Todd Sullivan.
Canopy Glue vs. CA

bn2204
 

G'Day Gents,

I started assembling a couple of Yarmouth Models Works NP resin boxcars,  and in both cases, managed to rub ribs (cast to thin?) off the roofs with my thumb and fingers while gluing in the floor. So now, I'm going to have to fabricate new ribs from plastic. Has anyone utilized canopy glue as an alternative to CA for securing plastic to resin?

Thanks 

Darrall Swift - Lagrange, Ohio 
Modeling the BN/MILW in North Central Montana, Great Falls to Shelby,  Circa: August-September 1979
Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Tim O'Connor
 


I am stunned to see that CB&Q still rostered 2,300 stock cars in 1965! Only 97 of them were 50 foot cars.


On 1/4/2021 7:45 PM, Ray Breyer via groups.io wrote:
I haven't been able to find any evidence of the 50-foot cars being converted in 1952. 1962 is more likely a correct date, but by then Mather didn't exist.

Where did the 1952 date come from? I'm working on a full timeline of Mather from 1880-1956, and I'd love to see that data.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Tim O'Connor
 


A good point! Primary sources would be ORERs, equipment diagrams, Railway Age, correctly dated photos, etc.
A great deal of inaccurate information has been published in books and in hobby magazines.


On 1/5/2021 9:21 AM, Ray Breyer via groups.io wrote:
I'm looking for primary source material, not "hobby wisdom". It appears that "the Fifties" as a date came from the Burlington article. Where did that piece get its information from?

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Thinking about Cocoa Beach 2021 . . .

Tim O'Connor
 


Here's another way to remember our departed friends. :-)

I am glad to have known all of them, and everyone else in this hobby too!


On 1/4/2021 9:13 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

Oh, unfortunately, there are several others, not the least of whom is Greg Martin.

 

I just found I had a pretty good photo of Denny, and it yanked my strings.

 

Schuyler



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Tim O'Connor
 


CB&Q leased cars also carried MSCX reporting marks.


On 1/4/2021 8:18 PM, Rupert Gamlen wrote:

To provide some clarification to the discussion (looking into the future) -

According to ORER’s, the first group of CB&Q leased Mather cars, 20000-20139 (40’ 3” inside length) was received between February 1960 and August 1960

The second group 50200-50239 (50’ inside length) was received between May 1965 and April 1966.
In both cases, the ORER’s state that repair bills should be sent to North American Car.


Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Tuesday, 5 January 2021 1:55 pm
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 50' Mather stock cars

 

1952 is he date given in the Burlington Bulletin. However, I searched the 1959 ORER that I have and could not find them in NYC, CB&Q, NKP, or North American listings. The few photos I have found were all taken in the 1966-68 date range.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Breyer via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 6:45 PM
To: Steam Freight Car <realstmfc@groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 50' Mather stock cars

 

I haven't been able to find any evidence of the 50-foot cars being converted in 1952. 1962 is more likely a correct date, but by then Mather didn't exist.

 

Where did the 1952 date come from? I'm working on a full timeline of Mather from 1880-1956, and I'd love to see that data.

 

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: NP 5418

Tim O'Connor
 


Very interesting Bill ! I usually don't use SC flat because of its high talc content, but that's good to
know. I still have a couple of bottles left of Floquil flat - not glaze - which is clearer than SC. I will
experiment with the Turpenol over Floquil and see what happens... :-)


On 1/4/2021 7:56 PM, william darnaby wrote:

I still weather a lot with an airbrush, spraying dilute Floquil earth or foundation and rail tie brown mostly on the underbody, trucks (attached less wheels) and lower areas of the body while the car is still glossy after decaling.  Then comes the Scalecoat flat finish all over the car (I use Scalecoat exclusively for cars I decal).  After a day of drying I do the oil paint wash.  Using a watercolor brush I mix burnt umber and black in a small glass cup of Turpenol, loading the brush by sticking it into the oil tubes and then swirling it around in the cup.  The mixture gets applies to the roof first and then the sides and ends, letting the wash run down.  The wash tends to collect around details like rivets, seams, ribs, etc. and collects at the bottom.  If too much collects at the bottom of the side it can be wicked up with the brush.  Because the mixing process is haphazard the amount of application varies from car to car.

 

After a day of drying the reweigh and repack data and background paint is applied with decals over the oil wash.  Decal chalk mark decals are also applied at this time.  Then it is a final application of Scalecoat flat to kill the shine of these decals.  Finally, accents with Pan Pastels are applied.

 

Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

Bill Darnaby



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: NP 5418

Tim O'Connor
 


Thanks Rob, I suspected there might be issues with turpentine and some brands of paint. I admire the
results people get with oils but I've never been successful with them.



On 1/4/2021 1:38 PM, Robert kirkham wrote:
Hi RJ, you’re achieving nice results, so what follows may not apply to what you are doing.  But my recent experience with turpentine and oils used for weathering washes was paint on two models turning into a rubbery muck that I ended up having to strip.  Lost the primer, paint and decals.   The under-paint before I applied the wash was Tamiya gray primer and Vallejo for the body colour.  I’ve since put the turpentine away and gone to water soluble oils.  Safer and just as easy to handle. 

Rob

On Jan 4, 2021, at 8:53 AM, radiodial868 <radiodial57@...> wrote:
Nice. I think you've also just described the standard for steam era weathering for 2021 that many of us are using. The only tweak I'm currently doing different is after painting and before the Pledge Future coat and decaling, I apply a thin wash of Turpentine and black oil paint. It gives the weathering depth for steam era cars that me applying the pan pastels at the end can't do alone.  I've also found that if you do light swipes of a tan or light gray PP on the appliances and trucks, it highlights them as you would see them if the sun was shining.
--
-------------------
RJ Dial
Mendocino, CA


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: [Non-DoD Source] P&LE gondola’s

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Brian;

It covers both.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Carlson <prrk41361@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 10:06 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] P&LE gondola’s

Does anyone have the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie gondola book? I have a chance to purchase it but I want to know if it covers steam era and transition era equipment as well as modern. I am concerned It may be mostly modern equipment.

Brian J. Carlson
Re: Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

Wallace Steinbrecher
 
Edited

Pure acetic acid will freeze at approximately 62 degrees F.  Vinegar (a 5% or so dilute form of acetic acid) will freeze at approximately 28 degrees F.

Regards,
Wallace Steinbrecher
Re: Photo: Installing A New Deck On A Flat Car (Undated)

David Soderblom
 

Regarding flat cars decks, the bolts used are carriage bolts, but with flat heads that fit into a conical countersink, leaving a flat, flush deck. That leaves them looking like flat circles from the top.




David Soderblom
Baltimore MD




--
David Soderblom
Baltimore MD
david.soderblom@...
Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Ray Breyer
 

I'm looking for primary source material, not "hobby wisdom". It appears that "the Fifties" as a date came from the Burlington article. Where did that piece get its information from?

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL




On Monday, January 4, 2021, 07:23:11 PM CST, Mat Thompson <ocrr@...> wrote:


There is a question of where did the 1952 date come from for conversion of Mather cars to 50 feet.

 

The January 1998 Model Railroader article by Jim Teese says conversions began in 1952. He also said his source information came from the Burlington Route Historical Society Bulletin no. 25 (April 1992) which is still listed on their website but I have not seen it.

 

Jeff Wilson, in his Kalmbach book Livestock & Meatpacking, says Mather “In the late 50s, rebuilt some of it 40-foot cars into 50-footers” (page 19). The same Burlington Route Bulletin is listed in the book’s Bibliography but I don’t know if that is the source of the late 50s comment.

 

Mat Thompson

 

See the Oregon Coast Railroad

 

 
Re: Photo: Installing A New Deck On A Flat Car (Undated)

O Fenton Wells
 

I looks like they are putting the 'notched' boards that go around the stake pockets, to me anyway
Fenton

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 11:19 PM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
Schuyler,
  It looks to me like they are putting the boards up loose - to walk on - and
will snug them up against each other during the process of attaching them.
It provides excellent surface and doesn't prevent access to the space
under the boards.  
                                                                                               - Jim



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Ray Hutchison
 

HOGX reporting marks would be pretty cool...

rh
Re: Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

ron christensen
 

try again
 I would guess most people who buy distilled white vinegar do not believe it is an alcohol based product.
 Apple vinegar is more expensive. I wonder how cold it has to get before distilled vinegar freezes?
Ron Christensen
Re: Photo: Speas Company Vinegar Tank Car

ron christensen
 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 01:16 AM, Ken Vandevoort wrote:
I worked at my uncle's grocery store while a high school student in the early 60's.  We sold Speas Vinegar.  We also had bulk vinegar (apple cider and distilled white) in barrels for those that brought their own containers.  The concrete floor under the pumps was eroded almost to the steel decking.  That would explain why the car tanks are wood.

Ken Vandevoort
New London, IA
Re: Photo: Installing A New Deck On A Flat Car (Undated)

mopacfirst
 

Another thing I thought of is how they will be hitting those bolt holes in the stringers.  Each board is fastened, it appears, with four bolts, probably carriage bolts.  Two go into the middle stringer on each side and two go into the structure at the side frame of the car.   If every other board is pre-cut to fit around the stake pockets, the crew would naturally want to fit those first and check the spacing between them.  Note the guy at the far end of the car with a pry bar.  Once the boards are laid out, the crew then has to drill them for the bolts, and you can tell where the holes in the steel stringers are if you can see the bolt holes on either side.

Ron Merrick
Re: Photo: Installing A New Deck On A Flat Car (Undated)

Jim Betz
 

Schuyler,
  It looks to me like they are putting the boards up loose - to walk on - and
will snug them up against each other during the process of attaching them.
It provides excellent surface and doesn't prevent access to the space
under the boards.  
                                                                                               - Jim
Re: P&LE gondola’s

Rich C
 

Brian, I have that book. It covers all periods, steam era until the end of the P&LE.

Rich Christie

On Monday, January 4, 2021, 09:06:13 PM CST, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:


Does anyone have the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie gondola book? I have a chance to purchase it but I want to know if it covers steam era and transition era equipment as well as modern. I am concerned It may be mostly modern equipment.

Brian J. Carlson




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