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Re: questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail Shop

Allen Cain
 

I have several of the Rail Shop Carbon Black Hopper kits which I might part with but will say up front that they are boxed in a storage unit right now while I FINALLY build the layout.

If anyone is interested contact me off list.

Allen Cain
Re: Pacific Electric

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Tim,

While I generally agree, I don't post photos from my collection if they have a collector's or photographer's name on the back. Even if the photographer has passed away, somebody, or some museum, might have the negative and claim reproduction rights. While I don't expect a lawsuit, it is a matter of respect. The big exception is the Sacramento Northern negatives I purchased from Will Whittaker. Will specifically assigned the reproduction rights in writing to me. I also own a large clutch of Ken Jenkins' Sacramento Northern negatives. I bought these from another collector, and consider that the reproduction came with the negatives. Same for uncredited negatives and prints I bought on eBay or from other sources, with the exception of one photographer who restricted reproduction rights beyond my personal collection as a condition of the sale.

Like I said, it is a matter of respect.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 5:19 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

All copyrights expire eventually. Including photographs. There are a lot of factors - how old was the
photographer and (if) when did they die? Was the photo ever published? Where did you get the photo?
A nearly 80 year old photo of a freight car... not much chance of a lawsuit. Just sayin'. And to win, the
suit would have to demonstrate actual damage to the copyright holder (diminishment of residual economic
value of the photo or publication).


On 2/3/2021 6:54 PM, SHAY STARK wrote:
Garth,

I have a photo of PE10237 taken in Centerville Utah on Bamberger Railroad with a packing date of 11-41 and BLT 6-24 B-50-14, that has the brake staff rigging located on the outside of the car. Unfortunately I don't have permission to post the photo. I also remember an article in Main Line Modeler in the 1990's that had a few photos of the PE cars along with the SP variants. I seem to remember at least one photo showing the brake staff rigging. Maybe someone has that article and could provide more information.

Shay Stark

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail Shop

Chuck Cover
 

Group,

 

I have built two Rail Shop PRR H30 covered hoppers and in my opinion they are nicer than the brass models.  If you can find a Rail Shop Carbon Black hopper car kit, that is the way to go.  I have attached two photos of the finished Rail Shop H30 and one photo of a brass model next to the Rail Shop model.  Good luck.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM
Re: Pacific Electric

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Mel,

I hadn't noticed the mismatch trucks, or I had forgotten. The left is clearly a T-section "Bettendorf", while the right appears to be similar to a PRR 2DF8. Such trucks were included in some of the Red Caboose PFE refrigerators, and I believe they were also common on other SP equipment.

Remember that this car moved over to MW service around 1951-1952 and served another 13-14 or so years. Since it was no longer in revenue service, replacing one truck with another type that was at hand would not be unrealistic.

When I posted these photos, I said they were mine. Actually, they are my father's and date to around 1966. He shot color slides, and I shot black-and-white on that visit to the OREM. My photos weren't all that hot. Although I shot this boxcar, I mostly concentrated on the freight motors.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff    🦆

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:52 PM mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:
interesting, that car has two different
trucks, is it on a scrap line?
mel perry
Re: questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper

Allen Cain
 

Rail Shop also produced four versions of Carbon Black cars, if you can find them on Ebay.

Allen Cain
Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

Tony Thompson
 

Mont Switzer wrote:

Those who stenciled compartment capacities on the domes hoped it would help the loader avoid overfilling and overrunning the compartment.

Not really. That dome lettering replaced what's on the car end of a single-compartment car -- the only way to know the actual gallonage.

Tony Thompson
Re: Pacific Electric

Tony Thompson
 

There are a number of extant photos of tank cars with two different trucks.

Tony Thompson
Re: Pacific Electric

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

All copyrights expire eventually. Including photographs. There are a lot of factors - how old was the
photographer and (if) when did they die? Was the photo ever published? Where did you get the photo?

Couple misconceptions here. Anyone with ACTUAL inherited or purchased rights can copyright a photo TODAY, if not already so protected. The classic example in copyright sources is if you inherit an unpublished diary of George Washington, in other words, it's really yours by right. You can copyright and publish it today.

. . . the suit would have to demonstrate actual damage to the copyright holder (diminishment of residual economic value of the photo or publication).

   Not entirely true; there can be statutory damages. And remember, Tim, a copyright or copyrightable material is property. Stealing it is like stealing any property. Your choice, of course.

Just saying'.

Tony Thompson
Re: Pacific Electric

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

Interesting question. Tony would be the one to comment on that. Most of the surviving PE cars were transferred to the SP circa 1951-1952, and any that were worthy of continued service would have needed AB brakes. 

I never saw in any SP records any indication of the PE car "special" brake gear. The only really comprehensive source on PE freight cars for me was the Volume III of the Ira Swett-edited "Cars of the Pacific Electric" series (Interurbans 37). The book does contain a number of PE equipment diagrams, but none give brake data beyond size and make of cylinder, and type of valve.

Tony Thompson
Re: [Non-DoD Source open car loads photos

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bob;

 

If there is anything you need in an open car load, just ask and I will look.

 

Regards,

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: PRR@PRR.groups.io <PRR@PRR.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2021 12:40 PM
To: PRR@PRR.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [PRR] PRR Photos

 

PRR Photos

Photos by Bob Anderson on Flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/167338649@N03/albums/72157712950452712

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
Re: Pacific Electric

David Ball
 

Hi Guys

 

Sorry for being a bit late to the party here

 

Like for others, everyone pic I have or can remember seeing where a PE B-40-14 is the explicit subject is of the wrong side, or is the wrong angle to show the correct side of the end in enough detail.

 

So I have been going through my other material seeing if I could find a photo where something else was the intended subject but also captured the correct side of the PE B-40-14.

 

And in the end I didn’t need to look to far (and somehow missed this when I was looking more specific for B-50-14’s). On pg 783 of Car of the Pacific Electric Vol 3 (the revised later edition which includes the section on freight cars) there is a pic that is nominally of a G-50-9 . But coupled behind it is PE B-40-14 10224. I have attached a close up (which is a bit fuzzy) bit it shows the outside brake rigging.

 

Cheers

 

David Ball

Wellington, NZ

(and modelling the road in question)
Re: DuPont tank car DUPX 254 - October 1944

Tim O'Connor
 


This was part of a LARGE group of cars numbered DUPX 102 to 274 - there were still 60 cars in
this series in 1970! Why hasn't ATLAS done their car in this paint scheme? (Or have they?)




On 2/1/2021 12:34 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io wrote:
My understanding is that these ICC 105A cars dedicated to anhydrous ammonia use were all ~11,000 gallons. This one was 11,313.

Photo is too fuzzy to be certain, but it looks like an AC&F build to me.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Pacific Electric

Tim O'Connor
 


All copyrights expire eventually. Including photographs. There are a lot of factors - how old was the
photographer and (if) when did they die? Was the photo ever published? Where did you get the photo?
A nearly 80 year old photo of a freight car... not much chance of a lawsuit. Just sayin'. And to win, the
suit would have to demonstrate actual damage to the copyright holder (diminishment of residual economic
value of the photo or publication).


On 2/3/2021 6:54 PM, SHAY STARK wrote:
Garth,

I have a photo of PE10237 taken in Centerville Utah on Bamberger Railroad with a packing date of 11-41 and BLT 6-24 B-50-14, that has the brake staff rigging located on the outside of the car. Unfortunately I don't have permission to post the photo. I also remember an article in Main Line Modeler in the 1990's that had a few photos of the PE cars along with the SP variants. I seem to remember at least one photo showing the brake staff rigging. Maybe someone has that article and could provide more information.

Shay Stark

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Congratulations to Clark

Steve SANDIFER
 

I got my latest MR yesterday and enjoyed the article by Clark.  Well done. I wish they had included a lot more photos!
Re: questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper

vapeurchapelon
 

Ed,
 
many thanks to you, too. Of course this helps a lot! I will need 1 or 2 days to go through all the material I received today.
 
Greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 04. Februar 2021 um 19:33 Uhr
Von: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...>
An: "main@realstmfc.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper
 
 
On Feb 4, 2021, at 8:07 AM, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:
 
I would like to get one of these, but at first have questions which need an answer in order to decide for or against a purchase.
1. How many of these cars were in existence? Were they very rare?
2. Did they travel nationwide or usually not far around their owners?
3. The Micronex car is most attractive to me, but the "NEW date" is 1934 - far too early for my period of post-war years. Is this lettering scheme correct for my period that I only would have to change that date?
 
Johannes, 
I’ll take a stab at answering your questions. 
 
Over time during the STMFC period were several sizes of carbon black cars to include capacities of 3000, 3400, 3465, 3480 & 3500 cubic feet. The OMI model is based on the 3000 cu. ft cars, and slightly more than 600 cars were built by ACF, GATC, and PSC (Pressed Steel Car Co.) from late 1933 thru 1949 with a production break during World War II. The larger cars collectively added to slightly less than 300 cars built from 1950 thru 1959 by ACF, GATC, Magor, and Thrall.
 
The following quantities of 3000 cu. ft. cars were in service as of Jan. 1952.
 
CABX - 116 Cabot
CCX - 95 Columbian Carbon
JMHX - 60 J.M. Huber
UCBX - 120 United Carbon
 
Several others had 40 cars or less in Jan. 1952: CCCX (40), CLTX (15), GACX (25), SHPX (20), SRCX (25), WITX (18). Some of these cars were transfers from previous original owners.
 
For accurate models, the modeler should be aware that not all 3000 cu. ft. cars were identical. Cars built from late 1933 thru early 1942 came with wood running boards and vertical-staff hand brakes as were used on the OMI model. Due to WPB restrictions during World War II, production of carbon black cars were on hold from mid-1942 thru 1946. Production of 3000 cu. ft. carbon black cars resumed in 1947 with wood running boards, but hand brakes were changed to power-type (Ajax). Cars built in 1948-1949 continued with power hand brakes, and running boards were changed to steel. I’m unaware of any 3000 cu. ft cars built after ca. 8-49. 
 
Regarding the three OMI models, I’ll address each one individually. 
 
1. CLTX 107 should be from series 106-110, 5 cars built 11-36 by ACF (lot 1572). The model is generally correct except for the build date. The 9-34 build date on the model would be accurate for CLTX 101-105 built by ACF in lot 1376. It’s highly doubtful if the original lettering would have been found in the postwar years, and it will take a photo of one of the 15 CLTX cars 101-115 to know how the cars were stenciled in the postwar years.
 
2. CABX 127 matches the scheme of an in-service photo of CABX 78 taken ca. 1948 (Charles E. Winters collection). Given the model has a wood running board & vertical-staff hand brake, the car number 127 is incorrect. The model can be made correct for the postwar years if the car number is changed from 31 thru 106. Build date stencils would of course depend on the car number selected, and could one of many from 12-34 thru 4-42.
 
Conversely, the CABX 127 model can be corrected for prototype cars CABX 127-146, built 8-49 by ACF (lot 3389), which came with Apex Tri-lok rectangular open-grid running boards & Ajax power hand brakes.
 
3. JMHX 226 was from original series JMHX 225-230, 6 cars built 12-40 in ACF lot 2108. For many years the J.M. Huber cars had serif-style stencils for their 3000 cu. ft. cars built 12-35 thru 1-42, and on larger 3480 cu. ft. cars built in 5-52 per in-service photo of 267 from series JMHX 266-280. The company name stencils appear to have been 7” high extending across only the middle section of the car. I’ve not seen any 1940s-1950s photos of J.M. Huber cars matching the 226 model, and based on limited photos in my personal collection I believe this scheme would not be accurate for your 1953 cut-off date. Otherwise, the model could corrected for your period of interest by re-lettering with smaller serif stencils.
 
Depending on how you might choose to proceed, I can help by providing you a scan to reflect the specific car of interest. 
 
Hope this helps.
Regards, Ed Hawkins
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Re: Pacific Electric

mel perry
 

bruce;
1) simple, i've never seen it in service,
only on dead lines, not to say it didn't
happen, i just haven't seen it

2)PE8501?, i'm teferencing PE00119,
which clearly a t-section on the left
and a bettendorf on the right
;-)
mel perry


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 1:04 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Mel,

1) Why would two different trucks imply a scrap line? While not common, it occurred.

2) Um, the trucks on PE 8501 sure both look like Andrews trucks to me.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Feb 4, 2021, at 2:51 PM, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:

interesting, that car has two different
trucks, is it on a scrap line?
mel perry
Re: Pacific Electric

Bruce Smith
 

Mel,

1) Why would two different trucks imply a scrap line? While not common, it occurred.

2) Um, the trucks on PE 8501 sure both look like Andrews trucks to me.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Feb 4, 2021, at 2:51 PM, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:

interesting, that car has two different
trucks, is it on a scrap line?
mel perry
Re: Pacific Electric

mel perry
 

interesting, that car has two different
trucks, is it on a scrap line?
mel perry
Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

Mont Switzer
 

Eldon,

Those who stenciled compartment capacities on the domes hoped it would help the loader avoid overfilling and overrunning the compartment.

Another reason for the voids between compartments (double bulkhead) was to avoid contamination.  If a compartment leaked it went into the vid between compartments, not into the adjoining compartment. 

Mont

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Gatwood, Elden J SAD [elden.j.gatwood@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2021 10:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

From the many photos I have seen over the years, there are enormous variations in capacities.  The users had varied needs, so did the tank cars.

 

I like the cars that had the tank capacities stenciled on the dome.

 

Places like USSteel’s Clairton Works shipped three different products in one car, so had similar capacity compartments.

 

Users that shipped clean oil in, and used oil out, sometimes had very different capacity compartments.

 

And those converted from single to triple compartment, often had a larger center compartment, and dome, than the outer compartments.

 

Things to make tank cars even more interesting….

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 6:53 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

 

Charlie Southern Car co makes great 3 dome and 2 dome tank car kits.

Fenton

 

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 5:13 PM Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

All-

Isn’t a three compartment tank smaller gallonage due to the extra tank bulkheads separating the compartments? That would make the 2K difference reasonable.
Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 3:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

 

Hi guys,

I was comparing my model of the OMI 8k 3-compartment insulated wine tank car (3271) to the OMI GATX 10k insulated car (3229). The tanks look like they're the same diameter and length even though there's supposed to be a 2k gal. difference between them. Is the 3-compartment car's tank larger than the prototype?

Thanks,
Phil


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
Re: Rio Grande decals - assistance please

Tim O'Connor
 


Schuyler

Champ HN-123 has black lettering including the "X" for mofw equipment.

Send me your address and I'll mail you the set.

:-)


On 2/4/2021 12:43 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

Of course I am if you look at it that way.  What I was looking for and have received is a couple or useful responses from people with some direct knowledge of D&RGW equipment who contacted me off list, which is why I gave my email address in the first email.

 

Since you seem to really want to know. I am looking to more-or-less accurately decal some troop sleepers in work train service.  The decal sheet my friend gave me, Microscale 87-73 “D&RGW Narrow Gauge Freight Cars,” does not include much black lettering and I am not convinced the “Rio Grande” speed lettering is the correct size.  I suspect there are better choices.  I want to letter it as accurately as I can, though the owner is very much satisfied with a “three-foot rule” result.  It’s >>ME<< being picky, not the owner.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2021 12:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande decals - assistance please

 

Schuyler Larrabee asked:

"I need some help finding the appropriate decals for a car I’m doing for a friend.  I am not a D&RGW modeler.

 I would appreciate assistance in finding the best decals for the job."


You're casting a pretty wide net.  What specifically are you trying to letter?


Ben Hom



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
11161 - 11180 of 192636