Date   

Re: questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail Shop

Bruce Smith
 

Chuck , Folks,

I recently finished one of the Rail Shops carbon black hopper kits as a United Carbon Company (UCBX) car, using the information in the May 1993 Mainline Modeler article by Martin Lofton, and the January 2007 Railmodel Journal article by Richard Hendrickson as well as information shared on this list. It's a nice kit, but the ends are nowhere near as complex as the etched brass origami of the H30 kit. And of course, my impetus to build the H30 was seriously eroded by the release of the Bowser model.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 5:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail Shop
 

Group,

 

I have built two Rail Shop PRR H30 covered hoppers and in my opinion they are nicer than the brass models.  If you can find a Rail Shop Carbon Black hopper car kit, that is the way to go.  I have attached two photos of the finished Rail Shop H30 and one photo of a brass model next to the Rail Shop model.  Good luck.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

Some of the early UTLX three compartment cars were built with three separate tanks, lined up like little sausages on the frame. The later cars were the same except the tank shell was made continuous, enclosing all the heads.

Yes, indeed. Below is an AC&F photo, given to me by Cyril Durrenberger. This is the mental image that should be in your mind when you look at a multi-compartment tank car.

Tony Thompson




Re: Pacific Electric

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 03:05 AM, Paul Doggett wrote:
The Pacific Electrics own cars had an unusual hand brake arrangement because of the tight curves
The same problem existed on the Colorado narrow gauge, where a normal hand brake rod would run just behind the backs of the wheels, and the solution was the same, chain and rollers to route it out around the truck. Grandt Line had parts for the chain rollers and brackets in some of their NG condola detail kits, IIRC, and these parts might be useful to model the PE cars.

Dennis Storzek


Re: OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

Steve and Barb Hile
 

This photo appeared in my UTLX book on page 85 (I hear that Ted is getting some additional copies, but I don’t know when.)

 

Here is what I can tell you.  Although the car was built by ACF (or is it AC&F?  :>)) it was built to UTLX’s design with the same underframe as other contemporary X-3 cars.  It was part of ACF lot 1523 and the cars were originally numbered 200 – 549.  They were later renumbered to 3625 – 3974.  Car number 3882 is in the Transportation museum at St. Louis and was recently repainted.  Ed Hawkins shared this photo with me from last fall.

 

 

Drawings from ACF for this lot are available from the library at the MOT.  The General Arrangement drawing is numbered 51457500.  The curator there is Teresa Militelo and her email is

 

tma.teresa2@...

 

I hope that this is helpful,

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 8:17 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

 

Steve, on the UTLX 228 in the photo I have a question. I know little about tank cars but wold like to build that one. Do you have a photo you would share. (I’ll check withBob’s photos also)Do you have dimensions for the car? (Or tell me where to look)

And do you know what underframe this car uses? I’m guessing a type 27

Any help is appreciated. 

Thanks in advance 

Fenton 



On Feb 4, 2021, at 9:10 PM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:



Yes, there were two heads creating the air gap.  Look closely at the tank and you will see the double rows of rivets marking the location of the interior heads.

 

<image001.png>

 

Of course, this is not possible if the car has an external jacket.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of greg snook
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 7:50 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

 

Bruce,

With the domed heads, would there be one on each compartment, creating an air void between the compartments?  I have always assumed, without any reason, that there was one head in the tank, curved in one direction or the other, but that doesn't seem like it would create the volume loss that you describe.

Thanks

Greg


Re: OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 06:00 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Yes, two heads, back to back, with an air space. You can see this in the rivet pattern on the outside of the car where there is a circumferential row of rivets where each head attaches.
Some of the early UTLX three compartment cars were built with three separate tanks, lined up like little sausages on the frame. The later cars were the same except the tank shell was made continuous, enclosing all the heads.

Dennis Storzek


Re: OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

O Fenton Wells
 

Steve, on the UTLX 228 in the photo I have a question. I know little about tank cars but wold like to build that one. Do you have a photo you would share. (I’ll check withBob’s photos also)Do you have dimensions for the car? (Or tell me where to look)
And do you know what underframe this car uses? I’m guessing a type 27
Any help is appreciated. 
Thanks in advance 
Fenton 


On Feb 4, 2021, at 9:10 PM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:



Yes, there were two heads creating the air gap.  Look closely at the tank and you will see the double rows of rivets marking the location of the interior heads.

 

<image001.png>

 

Of course, this is not possible if the car has an external jacket.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of greg snook
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 7:50 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

 

Bruce,

With the domed heads, would there be one on each compartment, creating an air void between the compartments?  I have always assumed, without any reason, that there was one head in the tank, curved in one direction or the other, but that doesn't seem like it would create the volume loss that you describe.

Thanks

Greg


Re: OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Yes, there were two heads creating the air gap.  Look closely at the tank and you will see the double rows of rivets marking the location of the interior heads.

 

 

Of course, this is not possible if the car has an external jacket.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of greg snook
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 7:50 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

 

Bruce,

With the domed heads, would there be one on each compartment, creating an air void between the compartments?  I have always assumed, without any reason, that there was one head in the tank, curved in one direction or the other, but that doesn't seem like it would create the volume loss that you describe.

Thanks

Greg


Re: OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

Bruce Smith
 

Greg,

Yes, two heads, back to back, with an air space. You can see this in the rivet pattern on the outside of the car where there is a circumferential row of rivets where each head attaches.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of greg snook <gregsnook@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 7:50 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?
 
Bruce,
With the domed heads, would there be one on each compartment, creating an air void between the compartments?  I have always assumed, without any reason, that there was one head in the tank, curved in one direction or the other, but that doesn't seem like it would create the volume loss that you describe.
Thanks
Greg


FS - Last Four Resin Kits in my HO scale kits box

Ross Dando
 

Thank you to those who have been nice enough to give previously offered kits new homes.
Last four are here below. Buyer pays shipping.

Sunshine Models
Kit #66-3
ATSF Rebuilt 48-6 flat with bulkheads
$40

Yarmouth Model Works 
Kit #108
ACF Somet-Solvey 103 configured for industrial solvents tank car
$50

Souther Car and Foundry
Kit #1001 
69' Baggage/Postal 
$60

Kit #2001
2 compartment/2 dome  GATX 1638 tank car
$50

Please take them one or all, but please someone give these a home where they will be built.
Thank you,
Ross

Meridian, Idaho


Re: OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

greg snook
 

Bruce,
With the domed heads, would there be one on each compartment, creating an air void between the compartments?  I have always assumed, without any reason, that there was one head in the tank, curved in one direction or the other, but that doesn't seem like it would create the volume loss that you describe.
Thanks
Greg


Re: Rio Grande decals - assistance please

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I just bought two of the sets Ben Hom referred me to on eBay, but if that doesn’t do it all, I’ll be back to you.  Thanks.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2021 2:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande decals - assistance please

 


Schuyler

Champ HN-123 has black lettering including the "X" for mofw equipment.

Send me your address and I'll mail you the set.

:-)


On 2/4/2021 12:43 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

Of course I am if you look at it that way.  What I was looking for and have received is a couple or useful responses from people with some direct knowledge of D&RGW equipment who contacted me off list, which is why I gave my email address in the first email.

 

Since you seem to really want to know. I am looking to more-or-less accurately decal some troop sleepers in work train service.  The decal sheet my friend gave me, Microscale 87-73 “D&RGW Narrow Gauge Freight Cars,” does not include much black lettering and I am not convinced the “Rio Grande” speed lettering is the correct size.  I suspect there are better choices.  I want to letter it as accurately as I can, though the owner is very much satisfied with a “three-foot rule” result.  It’s >>ME<< being picky, not the owner.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2021 12:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande decals - assistance please

 

Schuyler Larrabee asked:

"I need some help finding the appropriate decals for a car I’m doing for a friend.  I am not a D&RGW modeler.

 I would appreciate assistance in finding the best decals for the job."


You're casting a pretty wide net.  What specifically are you trying to letter?


Ben Hom

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Pacific Electric

brianleppert@att.net
 

The right hand truck was not like a PRR 2D-F8 (PRR truck classes did have dashes).  SP rebuilt this truck by replacing the original Bettendorf T-section side frames with  steel U-section side frames, cast by American Steel Foundries.  See attached photo of one of these trucks under a SP flat car at the Nevada State RR Museum.

SP rebuilt a lot of their Bettendorf T-Section trucks in the 1940s by replacing just the side frames.  Finished trucks could have either Simplex-like built-up truck bolsters, like this example, or one-piece cast steel bolsters.  In HO scale, Tahoe Model Works offers this truck with cast steel bolsters as TMW-109/209 Barber Lateral Motion 50-ton Trucks.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Re: Dalman-Andrews trucks with LM

al_brown03
 

I should say, I'm not sure if the Seaboard trucks had lateral-motion devices, but even if not: the GN/Soo truck would be a lot closer than anything hitherto commercially available.

AL B.


Re: questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail Shop

Allen Cain
 

I have several of the Rail Shop Carbon Black Hopper kits which I might part with but will say up front that they are boxed in a storage unit right now while I FINALLY build the layout.

If anyone is interested contact me off list.

Allen Cain


Re: Pacific Electric

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Tim,

While I generally agree, I don't post photos from my collection if they have a collector's or photographer's name on the back. Even if the photographer has passed away, somebody, or some museum, might have the negative and claim reproduction rights. While I don't expect a lawsuit, it is a matter of respect. The big exception is the Sacramento Northern negatives I purchased from Will Whittaker. Will specifically assigned the reproduction rights in writing to me. I also own a large clutch of Ken Jenkins' Sacramento Northern negatives. I bought these from another collector, and consider that the reproduction came with the negatives. Same for uncredited negatives and prints I bought on eBay or from other sources, with the exception of one photographer who restricted reproduction rights beyond my personal collection as a condition of the sale.

Like I said, it is a matter of respect.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 5:19 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

All copyrights expire eventually. Including photographs. There are a lot of factors - how old was the
photographer and (if) when did they die? Was the photo ever published? Where did you get the photo?
A nearly 80 year old photo of a freight car... not much chance of a lawsuit. Just sayin'. And to win, the
suit would have to demonstrate actual damage to the copyright holder (diminishment of residual economic
value of the photo or publication).


On 2/3/2021 6:54 PM, SHAY STARK wrote:
Garth,

I have a photo of PE10237 taken in Centerville Utah on Bamberger Railroad with a packing date of 11-41 and BLT 6-24 B-50-14, that has the brake staff rigging located on the outside of the car. Unfortunately I don't have permission to post the photo. I also remember an article in Main Line Modeler in the 1990's that had a few photos of the PE cars along with the SP variants. I seem to remember at least one photo showing the brake staff rigging. Maybe someone has that article and could provide more information.

Shay Stark

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper---Rail Shop

Chuck Cover
 

Group,

 

I have built two Rail Shop PRR H30 covered hoppers and in my opinion they are nicer than the brass models.  If you can find a Rail Shop Carbon Black hopper car kit, that is the way to go.  I have attached two photos of the finished Rail Shop H30 and one photo of a brass model next to the Rail Shop model.  Good luck.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Pacific Electric

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Mel,

I hadn't noticed the mismatch trucks, or I had forgotten. The left is clearly a T-section "Bettendorf", while the right appears to be similar to a PRR 2DF8. Such trucks were included in some of the Red Caboose PFE refrigerators, and I believe they were also common on other SP equipment.

Remember that this car moved over to MW service around 1951-1952 and served another 13-14 or so years. Since it was no longer in revenue service, replacing one truck with another type that was at hand would not be unrealistic.

When I posted these photos, I said they were mine. Actually, they are my father's and date to around 1966. He shot color slides, and I shot black-and-white on that visit to the OREM. My photos weren't all that hot. Although I shot this boxcar, I mostly concentrated on the freight motors.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff    🦆

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:52 PM mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:
interesting, that car has two different
trucks, is it on a scrap line?
mel perry


Re: questions regarding ACF Carbon Black Hopper

Allen Cain
 

Rail Shop also produced four versions of Carbon Black cars, if you can find them on Ebay.

Allen Cain


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 3-compartment insulated tank is too big?

Tony Thompson
 

Mont Switzer wrote:

Those who stenciled compartment capacities on the domes hoped it would help the loader avoid overfilling and overrunning the compartment.

Not really. That dome lettering replaced what's on the car end of a single-compartment car -- the only way to know the actual gallonage.

Tony Thompson




Re: Pacific Electric

Tony Thompson
 

There are a number of extant photos of tank cars with two different trucks.

Tony Thompson



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