Date   

SEEKING HELP ON A BRAKE ARRANGEMENT

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Above is a shot of an Exacta rail UP B-50-15 flat car.  I purchased the model at Naperville sub sequent to a presentation by Exacta rail.  The model was very well done and needed onl a few upgrades.  These included tiedowns between the stake p;ockets and brackets for the air hoses.  I have questions on the arrangement
of the brake components.  I have tried here and on otgher venues without success.  I even contacted Exactarail for their research on this era and was told that they could not release it.

I will start by saying that the train line on these cast underframes ran up the canter of the center sill entering just behind the trucks.  My main copncern is the placement of the Royal brake regulator.  I have added this feature to many models (mostly Santa Fe) and the ;placement has always been on tyhe side opposite the brake 
lever.  It might be placed on the opposite side of the center sill due to the location of the brake reservoir.  I weould like to get some sort of confirmation prior to compleating the car.  The lever and rod to the trucks is not represented on this model.  That should come through the center sill just oppossite the brake regulator.
I hope someone might be able to share some light on this.  I hate to guess on something like this as my betting average on guesswes is very low.

Thanks for any help:

Bill Pardie


Re: [SouthernRailway] Inman Yard in 1946 or 47

gary laakso
 

That is a good looking dry ice car in the photo and a rare picture.

Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock


On Feb 20, 2021, at 11:34 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Here is a “STMFC” era re-post from SouthernRailway.groups.io from the Southern Railway Historical Assoc. archives.

Ike


Subject: [SouthernRailway] Inman Yard in 1946 or 47
Date: February 20, 2021 at 2:20:51 PM EST

The SRHA archives includes many more photos than we can probably ever use in TIES or SRHA books. Here is an undated example that includes a variety of topics.

Although the photo is undated, we know that the Southern box car in the foreground of the photo is one of 1,000 post-war all steel design box cars built by Pullman-Standard and delivered in 1946 or 47 and the (most likely) NW-2 helps date the photo to 1947. No caption came with the image but it may be an Atlanta newspaper photo taken as part of the coverage of the fire in the distance.

The Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis and Omaha stock car coupled to the (very unusual!) dry ice car is a long way from home. The WFE car at Inman suggests the photo may have been taken during the Florida citrus, vegetable or peach shipping seasons when WFE equipment was moved east. The process reversed when apples were in season and FGE cars went west (there are mentions in the archives of solid trains of empty "reefers" moving back and forth as the seasons changed). The Inman icing platform is still in service and working, another "sign" it is peach or citrus season. With multiple Southern routes and railroads out of Atlanta, Inman was a diversion and re-icing point for northbound perishables.

The brakeman standing on the running board of the second car from the switch engine would be "interesting" during switch moves!

A great photo!

Ike


Re: [SouthernRailway] Inman Yard in 1946 or 47

Steve SANDIFER
 

Note also the unrestrained pole loads.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 1:34 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] [SouthernRailway] Inman Yard in 1946 or 47

 

Here is a “STMFC” era re-post from SouthernRailway.groups.io from the Southern Railway Historical Assoc. archives.

 

Ike

 

 

Subject: [SouthernRailway] Inman Yard in 1946 or 47

Date: February 20, 2021 at 2:20:51 PM EST

 

The SRHA archives includes many more photos than we can probably ever use in TIES or SRHA books. Here is an undated example that includes a variety of topics.

Although the photo is undated, we know that the Southern box car in the foreground of the photo is one of 1,000 post-war all steel design box cars built by Pullman-Standard and delivered in 1946 or 47 and the (most likely) NW-2 helps date the photo to 1947. No caption came with the image but it may be an Atlanta newspaper photo taken as part of the coverage of the fire in the distance.

The Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis and Omaha stock car coupled to the (very unusual!) dry ice car is a long way from home. The WFE car at Inman suggests the photo may have been taken during the Florida citrus, vegetable or peach shipping seasons when WFE equipment was moved east. The process reversed when apples were in season and FGE cars went west (there are mentions in the archives of solid trains of empty "reefers" moving back and forth as the seasons changed). The Inman icing platform is still in service and working, another "sign" it is peach or citrus season. With multiple Southern routes and railroads out of Atlanta, Inman was a diversion and re-icing point for northbound perishables.

The brakeman standing on the running board of the second car from the switch engine would be "interesting" during switch moves!

A great photo!

Ike


Re: Rio Grande PS1

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 11:36 AM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
The AHM/Roco PS-1 scales out to 10 ft IH, but this appears to be by accident, not by design, as the model retains the six small rectangles on the top of the ends, which were not present on the prototype 10 ft IH cars.  I can't find it in the files or photos sections, but years ago, I posted a side-by-side photo of a IMWX 1937 AAR boxcar and AHM PS-1 which confirms this.
 
Best to not get too picky with the dimensional accuracy of AHM products. Long ago I realized that product development at AHM consisted of finding a bunch of photos, not necessarily all of the same prototype, a similar model, and sending it all over to Europe with the instruction to, "Make this, but make it look like the pictures."

I am convinced the AHM PS-1 is modeled on the Athearn "blue box" boxcar. The give-away is the shape of the roof. The various SRECo. roofs had the ends of the panels (at the sides of the car) truly vertical, since they riveted to the upward facing flange of the Z bar that formed the eave. Athearn's toolmaker wanted the mold to part at the top of the sides, but also wanted to represent the rivets along the edge of the roof panels, so he changed the angle of the edge of the roof by about 20 degrees so he could tool shallow rivets along the ends of the panels and have them pull. It wasn't very successful as most blue box boxcars have the rivets smeared off one side of the roof. The AHM PS-1 doesn't have rivets on the edges of its roof, but still have the odd angle. Why? Likely because that was all the info Roco was given.

If you think back to the time when people actually cared what the prototype of Athearn's car might have been, I think you'll find that someone identified the closest prototype as a series of SP, IIRC, boxcars that had an odd 10'-3" IH. At any rate the Athearn model stood lower than the MDC model of the AAR car, although that model had the wrong end for its height. So, it stands to reason that the Roco PS-1, and likely the Lilliput copy, ended up being lower than a 10'-6" IH car, although likely not correct for a 10'-0" car either.

Dennis Storzek


Re: [SouthernRailway] Inman Yard in 1946 or 47

Allen Cain
 

Ike,

Thanks for sharing the GREAT picture of Inman Yard.

Is there a way to get a higher resolution copy so that I can make out some of the car numbers and details?

Thanks again,

Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


Re: Rio Grande PS1

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 08:55 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
I've never heard that before but can someone confirm this about the AHM PS-1... ??

Where did the Walthers PS-1 come from? (I think Accurail acquired that tooling.)
No. The Accurail PS-1 is the old McKean Models car, tooled by Front Range for Bill McKean to make use of the same floor as used on McKean's 40' double door boxcar.

As to the AHM PS-1, which one" There were two. As it was explained to me by Bill Wischer, Bernie Paul of AHM originally had the car done by Roco of Austria. The deal with Roco and several other European manufacturers was they would build a tool to your specs, but retain ownership, so you had to return for additional production. At some point Bernie became dissatisfied with the price Roco was quoting, so sent one of the models over to Lilliput and had them copy it. The Roco tooling eventually went to Walthers, and I believe the Lilliput tooling ended up at ConCor, but not before several other manufacturers had production runs made.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Rio Grande PS1

Benjamin Hom
 

Garth Groff wrote:
"IIRC the old AHM body with the separate ladders and a 7' door was 10' IH. I think this car was reissued by Model Power or somebody with the ladders and grabs cast in place. There was an article in the hobby press years ago about upgrading this car, I think to AC&Y (in brilliant yellow paint!). Sadly, it is not in my files."

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I've never heard that before but can someone confirm this about the AHM PS-1... ??"

The AHM/Roco PS-1 scales out to 10 ft IH, but this appears to be by accident, not by design, as the model retains the six small rectangles on the top of the ends, which were not present on the prototype 10 ft IH cars.  I can't find it in the files or photos sections, but years ago, I posted a side-by-side photo of a IMWX 1937 AAR boxcar and AHM PS-1 which confirms this.


Tim O'Connor asked:
"Where did the Walthers PS-1 come from? (I think Accurail acquired that tooling.)"

Walthers issued an upgraded version of the AHM/Roco tooling in the late 1980s-early 1990s.  This can be distinguished from the other versions by an underframe with separate center sill and coupler pockets that accepted Kadee #5 couplers.  This was molded in rust-colored plastic.

The Accurail model is definitely not based on any AHM-derived tooling.  It has much more in common with the McKean Models PS-1.  I'll leave it to Dennis Storzek to confirm or deny.

The current PS-1 in the Walthers Manline product line is new tooling and models pre-1950s PS-1s.


Ben Hom


[SouthernRailway] Inman Yard in 1946 or 47

George Eichelberger
 

Here is a “STMFC” era re-post from SouthernRailway.groups.io from the Southern Railway Historical Assoc. archives.

Ike


Subject: [SouthernRailway] Inman Yard in 1946 or 47
Date: February 20, 2021 at 2:20:51 PM EST

The SRHA archives includes many more photos than we can probably ever use in TIES or SRHA books. Here is an undated example that includes a variety of topics.

Although the photo is undated, we know that the Southern box car in the foreground of the photo is one of 1,000 post-war all steel design box cars built by Pullman-Standard and delivered in 1946 or 47 and the (most likely) NW-2 helps date the photo to 1947. No caption came with the image but it may be an Atlanta newspaper photo taken as part of the coverage of the fire in the distance.

The Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis and Omaha stock car coupled to the (very unusual!) dry ice car is a long way from home. The WFE car at Inman suggests the photo may have been taken during the Florida citrus, vegetable or peach shipping seasons when WFE equipment was moved east. The process reversed when apples were in season and FGE cars went west (there are mentions in the archives of solid trains of empty "reefers" moving back and forth as the seasons changed). The Inman icing platform is still in service and working, another "sign" it is peach or citrus season. With multiple Southern routes and railroads out of Atlanta, Inman was a diversion and re-icing point for northbound perishables.

The brakeman standing on the running board of the second car from the switch engine would be "interesting" during switch moves!

A great photo!

Ike

_._,_._,_


Photo: N&W Boxcar 47500 (Class B-7)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: N&W Boxcar 47500 (Class B-7)

A photo from the Virginia Tech Universities Library:

https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/image_viewer.php?q=ns2895

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Part of series 47500-47999. Fifty ton car. Cars were forty-two feet long

Built 1929. Rebuilt later?

Also see earlier post:

https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/message/130326?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,47500,20,2,0,17256754

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Rio Grande PS1

Dave Bayless
 


With the discussion about the Rio Grande PS-1's, this brings up another question I have had. These cars came from USRE and many were rebuilt with non PS-1 parts. I no that I have seen a picture of the Rio grande PS1 with diagonal panel roof only I can't find the resource that I saw that picture in. Does anyone know which car numbers received diagonal panel roofs? And if so we're those cars from the New Haven being 10 ft 0 in IH or from another railroad like Lehigh valley being 10 ft 6 in IH. The combination of the PS1 and diagonal panel roof would make an interesting car. Thanks in advance, Dave SilverStreak Bayless
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE device

------ Original message------
From: Tim O'Connor
Date: Sat, Feb 20, 2021 8:55 AM
Cc:
Subject:Re: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande PS1


I've never heard that before but can someone confirm this about the AHM PS-1... ??

Where did the Walthers PS-1 come from? (I think Accurail acquired that tooling.)


On 2/19/2021 8:06 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Ben and Tim,

IIRC the old AHM body with the separate ladders and a 7' door was 10' IH. I think this car was reissued by Model Power or somebody with the ladders and grabs cast in place. There was an article in the hobby press years ago about upgrading this car, I think to AC&Y (in brilliant yellow paint!). Sadly, it is not in my files.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 6:51 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Tim O' Connor wrote:
"But I think the Kurtz Kraft body was 10-6."

It is...but because it's a flat kit, it's easier to take 6 inches off the height.


Ben Hom


Re: Rio Grande PS1

Tim O'Connor
 


I've never heard that before but can someone confirm this about the AHM PS-1... ??

Where did the Walthers PS-1 come from? (I think Accurail acquired that tooling.)


On 2/19/2021 8:06 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Ben and Tim,

IIRC the old AHM body with the separate ladders and a 7' door was 10' IH. I think this car was reissued by Model Power or somebody with the ladders and grabs cast in place. There was an article in the hobby press years ago about upgrading this car, I think to AC&Y (in brilliant yellow paint!). Sadly, it is not in my files.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 6:51 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Tim O' Connor wrote:
"But I think the Kurtz Kraft body was 10-6."

It is...but because it's a flat kit, it's easier to take 6 inches off the height.


Ben Hom


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 


70 ton loads of coal or limestone on 4 percent grades. Yeah, the Rio Grande thought they
might need some extra braking power! :-P

Remember back in those days box cars rarely weighed more than 50 tons loaded (grain
and lumber being the major exceptions). Hoppers and gondolas could weigh twice as much
when loaded.


On 2/19/2021 9:25 PM, gary laakso wrote:

This was the type of truck used by the DRGW on some gondolas that W&R imported in brass. 

 

Gary Laakso



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Mont Switzer
 

Brian and all,

I'm getting a pretty good scolding on this one so I won’t repeat any more transporter humor. I'll stick to the endless posts all of which are full of useful facts.

Mont

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Carlson via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 11:30 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Mont, In 50 years someone is going to find your message and think you’re speaking fact. Lol.

We have a hard enough time convincing folks N&W hoppers went over Sherman Hill. Now this. Oi!

Brian J. Carlson


Re: Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Brian Carlson
 

Mont, In 50 years someone is going to find your message and think you’re speaking fact. Lol.

We have a hard enough time convincing folks N&W hoppers went over Sherman Hill. Now this. Oi!

Brian J. Carlson


Re: Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Tony Thompson
 

Oh, I wish you hadn’t done this, Mont. I am so tired of the associated foolishness that the humor is long gone.
Tony Thompson 


On Feb 20, 2021, at 5:54 AM, Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:



However, after loading the helium cars became lighter and therefore less need for the clasp brakes. 

 

One professional railroader told me they had a helium car on the PRR that was overloaded and it actually started to float above the rails.  They had to open a valve to bleed some of the helium off to get it back down on the rails.

 

Or was it on the SP?

 

Mont

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Ford
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 7:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

 

Dennis,

Helium tank cars are another example.  They tip the scales at 100 tons, empty.  Not only did the early cars have clasp brake rigging, they had two complete air brakes systems - one for each truck.

That's a lot of braking effort for a net payload of 3000 pounds of Helium.  All the weight came from the 30 welded steel tanks that held the gas. 

$.02,
-Jeff Ford
Sanger, TX


Re: Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Mont Switzer
 

However, after loading the helium cars became lighter and therefore less need for the clasp brakes. 

 

One professional railroader told me they had a helium car on the PRR that was overloaded and it actually started to float above the rails.  They had to open a valve to bleed some of the helium off to get it back down on the rails.

 

Or was it on the SP?

 

Mont

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Ford
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 7:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

 

Dennis,

Helium tank cars are another example.  They tip the scales at 100 tons, empty.  Not only did the early cars have clasp brake rigging, they had two complete air brakes systems - one for each truck.

That's a lot of braking effort for a net payload of 3000 pounds of Helium.  All the weight came from the 30 welded steel tanks that held the gas. 

$.02,
-Jeff Ford
Sanger, TX


Re: ACL paint scheme

Ed Mims
 

Larry, it is very likely that the gray cars you saw in your early years were painted with car cement and had weathered. Car cement turn to a flat shade of dark gray fairly quickly.

Ed Mims


Re: HD Truck Tweak?

Corey Bonsall
 

Hi Jeff,

I had seen the helium cars before, but never really noticed the trucks were outside clasp.  I've actually got two different versions of the outside clasp trucks; the CBC / B&LE that have the "turned down" hanger ends, and what I'm calling the Vulcan clasp type that I use for my D&RGW 70 ton offset cars ( and Kennecott Utah Copper ore cars...)  I think the latter would be pretty close for at least one of the plain bearing classes in that handy PDF in the other thread.


Vs.


I haven't played much with adding a lot of finer detail to the trucks, as I'm at the limit of the printer resin in this HO scale size, and the resin isn't as strong or forgiving as acetal.  The journals on these truckframes are already somewhat large as I needed that size to keep enough material around the axle point cone, so they definitely come across as chunky.

Corey Bonsall


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Dave Nelson
 

In one of Kip Harrington’s stories he wrote of ancient east coast HM hoppers being sold “out west” where they showed up hauling coal over Soldier Summit.  These were B&LE cars built before WWI.  They had clasp brakes on them.

 

That suggests clasp brakes were a standard feture on B&LE hoppers, at least in the first half of the 20th century.

 

Dave Nelson


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Richard Townsend
 

I understand there were some offset side two bay B&LE hoppers that had these trucks, too. At least there was an article, I think in MRG, that showed how to model such.

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