Date   

Re: Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Tony Thompson
 

Oh, I wish you hadn’t done this, Mont. I am so tired of the associated foolishness that the humor is long gone.
Tony Thompson 


On Feb 20, 2021, at 5:54 AM, Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:



However, after loading the helium cars became lighter and therefore less need for the clasp brakes. 

 

One professional railroader told me they had a helium car on the PRR that was overloaded and it actually started to float above the rails.  They had to open a valve to bleed some of the helium off to get it back down on the rails.

 

Or was it on the SP?

 

Mont

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Ford
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 7:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

 

Dennis,

Helium tank cars are another example.  They tip the scales at 100 tons, empty.  Not only did the early cars have clasp brake rigging, they had two complete air brakes systems - one for each truck.

That's a lot of braking effort for a net payload of 3000 pounds of Helium.  All the weight came from the 30 welded steel tanks that held the gas. 

$.02,
-Jeff Ford
Sanger, TX


Re: Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Mont Switzer
 

However, after loading the helium cars became lighter and therefore less need for the clasp brakes. 

 

One professional railroader told me they had a helium car on the PRR that was overloaded and it actually started to float above the rails.  They had to open a valve to bleed some of the helium off to get it back down on the rails.

 

Or was it on the SP?

 

Mont

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Ford
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 7:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

 

Dennis,

Helium tank cars are another example.  They tip the scales at 100 tons, empty.  Not only did the early cars have clasp brake rigging, they had two complete air brakes systems - one for each truck.

That's a lot of braking effort for a net payload of 3000 pounds of Helium.  All the weight came from the 30 welded steel tanks that held the gas. 

$.02,
-Jeff Ford
Sanger, TX


Re: ACL paint scheme

Ed Mims
 

Larry, it is very likely that the gray cars you saw in your early years were painted with car cement and had weathered. Car cement turn to a flat shade of dark gray fairly quickly.

Ed Mims


Re: HD Truck Tweak?

Corey Bonsall
 

Hi Jeff,

I had seen the helium cars before, but never really noticed the trucks were outside clasp.  I've actually got two different versions of the outside clasp trucks; the CBC / B&LE that have the "turned down" hanger ends, and what I'm calling the Vulcan clasp type that I use for my D&RGW 70 ton offset cars ( and Kennecott Utah Copper ore cars...)  I think the latter would be pretty close for at least one of the plain bearing classes in that handy PDF in the other thread.


Vs.


I haven't played much with adding a lot of finer detail to the trucks, as I'm at the limit of the printer resin in this HO scale size, and the resin isn't as strong or forgiving as acetal.  The journals on these truckframes are already somewhat large as I needed that size to keep enough material around the axle point cone, so they definitely come across as chunky.

Corey Bonsall


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Dave Nelson
 

In one of Kip Harrington’s stories he wrote of ancient east coast HM hoppers being sold “out west” where they showed up hauling coal over Soldier Summit.  These were B&LE cars built before WWI.  They had clasp brakes on them.

 

That suggests clasp brakes were a standard feture on B&LE hoppers, at least in the first half of the 20th century.

 

Dave Nelson


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Richard Townsend
 

I understand there were some offset side two bay B&LE hoppers that had these trucks, too. At least there was an article, I think in MRG, that showed how to model such.


heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

gary laakso
 

This was the type of truck used by the DRGW on some gondolas that W&R imported in brass. 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

spsalso
 

Thank you, Ben.

One of my favorite models from the olden days.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Rio Grande PS1

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Ben and Tim,

IIRC the old AHM body with the separate ladders and a 7' door was 10' IH. I think this car was reissued by Model Power or somebody with the ladders and grabs cast in place. There was an article in the hobby press years ago about upgrading this car, I think to AC&Y (in brilliant yellow paint!). Sadly, it is not in my files.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 6:51 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Tim O' Connor wrote:
"But I think the Kurtz Kraft body was 10-6."

It is...but because it's a flat kit, it's easier to take 6 inches off the height.


Ben Hom






Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Benjamin Hom
 

Ed Sutorik wrote:
"I got it into my head the the B&LE car was the prototype for the Ulrich triple.  Comparing photos, I see that it is not.
Does anyone happen to know what the prototype was for this model?"

Look again - B&LE had more than one type of triple hopper.

See also Richard Hendrickson's article in the March 1984 issue of Prototype Modeler.


Ben Hom


Re: Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Jeff Ford
 

Dennis,

Helium tank cars are another example.  They tip the scales at 100 tons, empty.  Not only did the early cars have clasp brake rigging, they had two complete air brakes systems - one for each truck.

That's a lot of braking effort for a net payload of 3000 pounds of Helium.  All the weight came from the 30 welded steel tanks that held the gas. 

$.02,
-Jeff Ford
Sanger, TX


HD Truck Tweak?

Jeff Ford
 

Corey,

Nice work on those trucks.  I wonder how much additional work would be involved in tweaking them to replicate the trucks used under the helium cars. Attached is Jay Miller's handout that has views of the various trucks used in the helium fleet.  The biggest difference I can see is the size of the journal boxes.  The He cars rode on 6.5 x 12 journals and the boxes are visibly large.  A second difference for the early cars is the Andrews bracket as the journal boxes were demountable. 

I'd be curious to know what your thoughts are having been down that road. 

Thanks,
Jeff Ford
Sanger, TX


Re: Rio Grande PS1

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O' Connor wrote:
"But I think the Kurtz Kraft body was 10-6."

It is...but because it's a flat kit, it's easier to take 6 inches off the height.


Ben Hom


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

spsalso
 

I got it into my head the the B&LE car was the prototype for the Ulrich triple.  Comparing photos, I see that it is not.

Does anyone happen to know what the prototype was for this model?


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Keith Retterer
 

Here is the builder's photo of the B&LE hopper with those massive trucks.  Also a close-up of the truck.
Keith.


Re: Rio Grande PS1

Tim O'Connor
 


But I think the Kurtz Kraft body was 10-6


On 2/18/2021 6:54 PM, D. Scott Chatfield wrote:
Tim O wrote:

> Exactly one railroad bought 10-0 IH PS-1 box cars with 7 foot doors -  the New Haven. And they bought 1500 of them!

Did somebody say 7 foot door?  Isn't that what the old Kurtz Kraft, later Connonball Car Shops, flat kit PS-1 had?   Hmmm....


Scott Chatfield
_._,_._,_


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Tim O'Connor
 


Ahem. When you've got serious grades, you need serious brakes!

(Athearn makes the roller bearing version of the clasp brake trucks.)


On 2/18/2021 11:00 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
I was giving some thought to these trucks, wondering why high capacity cars (85 and 90 tons capacity) of the pre-war period all seemed to use clasp brakes while our modern 100 and 125 ton cars don't, and then it dawned on me... composition brake shoes, which, near as I can tell, were developed in the mid fifties. Prior to that the common brake shoe was cast iron, and there must have been a limit to how much braking force could be developed with eight standard shoes per car, and 70 ton cars must have been pretty much it. Clasp brakes, with two shoes per wheel, double the amount of brake shoe contact are and also equalize the forces on the journal bearings, which probably had a good effect on journal bearing life. Anybody aware of a trade press article on the subject?

Dennis Storzek

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Eric Hansmann
 

Were those trucks also equipped with the larger 36-inch diameter wheels?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 9:51 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

 

For those (like myself) who are picky about such things, the side frames on the Helium car trucks are definitely different from those on the CC/BLE hoppers, but the hopper trucks are the best thing we’ve got right now.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL



On Feb 19, 2021, at 9:29 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

 

RE: Helium Car Trucks -

This is Jay Miller's helium car clinic handout:

Photos of the trucks appear about two-thirds of the way down the article.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Bruce Smith
 

For those (like myself) who are picky about such things, the side frames on the Helium car trucks are definitely different from those on the CC/BLE hoppers, but the hopper trucks are the best thing we’ve got right now.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Feb 19, 2021, at 9:29 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

RE: Helium Car Trucks -
This is Jay Miller's helium car clinic handout:
Photos of the trucks appear about two-thirds of the way down the article.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Bruce Smith
 

For those (like myself) who are picky about such things, the side frames on the Helium car trucks are definitely different from those on the CC/B&LE hoppers, but the hopper trucks are the best thing we’ve got right now.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Feb 19, 2021, at 9:29 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

RE: Helium Car Trucks -
This is Jay Miller's helium car clinic handout:
Photos of the trucks appear about two-thirds of the way down the article.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

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