Date   

Re: Red Owl warehouse

Tony Thompson
 

Todd Sullivan wrote:

Thanks for several informative replies, the most informative of which is Chris Frissell's about Great Western in Billings.  Now I have a shipper if I want to model sugar shipments.  Thanks!!

Or C&H in Crockett, California, or numerous California beet plants . . .

Tony Thompson




Monon 1937 AAR boxcar

Richard Scott
 

Mont Switzer's 2017 Chicagoland RPM presentation motivated me to model a Monon boxcar.  O-scale CIL 9157 began as an Intermountain kit.  I scratchbuilt a new roof walk for it from styrene strips, and I replaced some of the kit's more fragile styrene parts with brass equivalents.  I painted the car with Polly Scale and MicroLux acrylics, and lettered it with Protocraft decals.

The Monon had 450 of these 1937 AAR boxcars, with road numbers 9000-9449.  Pullman-Standard built them in 1941 and 1942, and all rode on National B-1 trucks.  O-scale B-1s are hard to find so I "scratch-bashed" these from 1970s-vintage Atlas Bettendorf trucks.  The Atlas side-frames were molded from high-impact polystyrene so the conversion wasn't difficult.  The attached photos show how I did it.

Stay well,
Dick Scott
 


Re: Shortening Kadee Running Board

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Tony and Bruce,

I would love to go the other way and lengthen a Kadee 40' Morton running board to 50'. Most Western Pacific/Sacramento Northern/Tidewater Southern 50' PS-1s had Morton running boards, and I have a mess of these I would like to be more accurate.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

Garth Groff  

On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 4:47 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Bruce Griffin wrote:

Has anyone tried this or have suggestions that would make it easier? Photos? I know canopy glue is a good adhesive for adhering to supports and maybe I could make the joint over one. 

Exactly what I would recommend, Bruce, but I haven't actually done it. It certainly ought to work.

Tony Thompson




Re: Red Owl warehouse

Rufus Cone
 

Following several posts by Clark Propst and others, Todd Sullivan wrote:
It also raises lots of questions about where cars came from and where the loads out were going.  E.g., where did all that sugar in NP boxcars come from?
and later
Thanks for several informative replies, the most informative of which is Chris Frissell's about Great Western in Billings.  Now I have a shipper if I want to model sugar shipments.  Thanks!!

Sugar beets and sugar production were a major business along the NP in eastern Montana into ND and also south of Billings at Hardin on the CB&Q:  Great Western Sugar in Billings;  Holly Sugar in Sidney and Hardin.

Details of beet growing and sugar production in the Yellowstone River Valley may be found in this 1970 thesis, which covers the era of this list:

An Economic Study of the Beet Sugar Industry in Montana - A Regional Analysis, By Willard Horace Godfrey, Jr. An Economic Study of the Beet Sugar Industry in Montana - A Regional Analysis, By Willard Horace Godfrey, Jr.

https://scholarworks.montana.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1/4350/31762100108123.pdf

A shorter summary is available here:

An economic study of the beet sugar industry in Montana, Gail L. Cramer & Willard H. Jr. Godfrey, 1970, 259379, Montana State University, Agricultural Experiment Station.

https://ageconsearch.umn.edu/record/259379/files/agecon-montanastate-020AESBulletin.pdf

They note that American Crystal Sugar Company discontinued doing business at Missoula, Montana, in 1966

Sidney Sugars, formerly Holly Sugar Corporation, Sidney, Montana (now part of American Crystal Sugar Company) notes:

http://www.sidneysugars.com/our-company/history/

1924: Railroad tracks at the factory site made a factory possible in Sidney. Irrigation water from the Yellowstone River was available to the farmers since 1909.





Re: Red Owl warehouse

Todd Sullivan
 

Thanks for several informative replies, the most informative of which is Chris Frissell's about Great Western in Billings.  Now I have a shipper if I want to model sugar shipments.  Thanks!!

Todd Sullivan


Re: Shortening Kadee Running Board

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Griffin wrote:

Has anyone tried this or have suggestions that would make it easier? Photos? I know canopy glue is a good adhesive for adhering to supports and maybe I could make the joint over one. 

Exactly what I would recommend, Bruce, but I haven't actually done it. It certainly ought to work.

Tony Thompson




Shortening Kadee Running Board

Bruce Griffin
 

Friends,

I did a search of this and several lists and could not find an answer, has anyone ever shortened a Kadee running board? I am building a Rail Shop Carbon Black Hopper and want to replicate a 1948 build with an Apex running board. I would love to use a Kadee 50’ part and need to cut out 5’, presumably from the center in order to keep the end details in place.  

Has anyone tried this or have suggestions that would make it easier? Photos? I know canopy glue is a good adhesive for adhering to supports and maybe I could make the joint over one. Thanks for your insights. 
 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Re: Mystery Tank Car IDs - TKX

Jack Mullen
 

On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 09:08 AM, Todd Sullivan wrote:
Interesting place to have a headquarters.  Hancock, NY was on the NYO&W line on the Delaware River deep in the heart of NY State's Southern Tier.  A pretty small town, well off the beaten track, near Cadosia, the junction of the NYO&W's lines from the Penna Northern Anthracite Field and the meandering line that served small farming towns on the way toward Oswego.  Not sure how manufacturing phenols and such from coal tar (from anthracite? the clean coal?) figures into the HQ location. 
The Thomas Keery Co. business was destructive distillation of hardwood, not coal. Principal products could include methyl alcohol and acetic acid with charcoal as a residual byproduct. Acetone, formaldehyde, and various phenols and esters can be produced. By c1900 Keery was headquartered in Hancock with plant in Cadosia, closing in 1945. It appears that the industry was practical on a relatively small scale, with moderate capital and labor, capable of producing rail-freight traffic volumes. Proximity to a sizeable hardwood forest would be essential. 
I'll post some links later when I can get on my pc, but right now I have to cook sourdough pancakes. 

Jack Mullen


Re: Red Owl warehouse

Clark Propst
 

Thanks a lot Steve I’ll incorporate the data. Much appreciated!!

Clark

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Red Owl warehouse

leakinmywaders
 

Todd:  "E.g., where did all that sugar in NP boxcars come from?"

Pretty sure the answer to this is Great Western Sugar's central sugar beet processing plant in Billings, Montana.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT 


Re: Reweigh dates on freight cars

Tony Thompson
 

Fran Giacoma wrote:

Base upon the article "ReWeigh Dates on Freight Cars" by Tony Thompson (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz_ctrHrDz4wOWM4YzU5MGYtMTdjNC00MmQwLWEyZDgtMjJiMDUzMTZhMmZm/view)
I have started to add this detail to applicable cars on my HO B&O Shenandoah SD set in late September 1956. The majority of my cars will fall in the 48 month catagory as described at the end of his article and also in Table 1. How steadfast was this rule? Would you see some cars say 3 months beyond the 48 months not done?

Based on what one sees in photos from that era, "overdue" cars are pretty rare. I would recommend against that.

Tony Thompson




Re: Red Owl warehouse

Steve SANDIFER
 

Clark I am returning this with ATSF notes. I added the class of the cars and based on my Santa Fe Live List made some changes in the descriptions. The Santa Fe did a lot of car rebuilding as WWII wound down, so you will see cars that are listed as rebuilds. Sometimes they changed the car class and numbers when they rebuilt them, but sometimes they did not. Also the ORER would lump several classes of cars together if they had the same specs.  The only car that I tend to question is the one marked as BX-W on 8-6-1949. The BX-W were largely in MOW service by that time, so please recheck the number. Also note that RR51 275425 appears in the list twice, one day apart.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2021 6:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Red Owl warehouse

 

I've pretty done all I can with the grocery warehouse cars. I've found plenty of mistakes. I'm sure there was more. Please take a look at your favorite road and let me know if changes are needed? Would be nice to be able to add car classes, I know the ATSF, SP, UP used them. The PRR classes are in the ORER.
Thanks
Clark


Re: Red Owl warehouse

Tim O'Connor
 


Unless these were extra special NP box cars, I'm not sure you can infer anything from the fact that a
load of sugar arrives inside an NP box car. Basically the sugar plant asks for a bunch of clean XM box
cars to load - and whatever clean XM box cars were in the yard that day, went to the sugar plant!

I agree the Red River valley is known for beet sugar. So is eastern Colorado. And California. NP XM
box cars were a common sight in those places.

Was -sugar- refined in Hawaii?? I thought the raw cane was shipped (by the shipload) and processed on
the mainland. I know there was a huge Hawaii sugar cane mill in northern California, and there was another
one in Brooklyn NY for sugar cane from the Caribbean islands.


On 2/27/2021 12:05 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Todd the sugar is interesting. Sugar beets were a common crop in Northern Iowa and Minnesota in 1949, with several sugar beet processing plants in the region. The NP could also have been hauling Hawaiian cane sugar from the PNW ports.

 

I also question the SLRX cars, whose reporting marks are often confused with Swift SRLX marks. But the numbers do match SLRX cars. Could the loads have been mis-labeled to reduce pilferage?

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2021 8:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Red Owl warehouse

 

Hi Clark,

Wow!  That Excel workbook is a labor of love. 

It also raises lots of questions about where cars came from and where the loads out were going.  E.g., where did all that sugar in NP boxcars come from?  I don't suppose the seal books have origin or destination information?

I did find one set of questionable initials = SLRX (St Louis Refrigerator Line - beer), which I think should be SRLX (Swift Refrigerator Line - meat).  See rows 184-185.

Otherwise, a great wealth of information to ponder.

Thanks!!

Todd Sullivan


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: L&N Woodrack -- 3

Bob Chapman
 

Mont says:
Your jig for making the end bulkheads is interesting. Can you share from what the job is constructed? We all know that assembling styrene components in a styrene jig usually doesn’t go well.
 
Mont --
The jig is styrene (painted grey for contrast in the photo). Yeah, the solvent gets into everything. On the jig I left some extra space at each bulkhead joint, which helped a bit. And when gluing with the bulkhead in the jig, I used very sparing amounts of solvent for the first pass. Once dry and part removed from the jig, I then drowned the joint as usual.
 
Regards,
Bob Chapman
 
p.s. Thanks to all for the kind words.


Reweigh dates on freight cars

Fran Giacoma
 

Base upon the article "ReWeigh Dates on Freight Cars" by Tony Thompson (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz_ctrHrDz4wOWM4YzU5MGYtMTdjNC00MmQwLWEyZDgtMjJiMDUzMTZhMmZm/view)
I have started to add this detail to applicable cars on my HO B&O Shenandoah SD set in late September 1956. The majority of my cars will fall in the 48 month catagory as described at the end of his article and also in Table 1. How steadfast was this rule? Would you see some cars say 3 months beyond the 48 months not done?
Thanks.
Fran Giacoma


Re: Emailing: IMG_5838, IMG_5841

Chad Boas
 

And I have the main Monon 40' flat car casting if anyone needs a base.
Chad Boas


Re: Red Owl warehouse

Clark Propst
 

I received an email stating a certain car was a PS1 with 7’ door. That’s the type of correction I was hoping for! The more info I add the more chances for mistakes. This is the best place I could think of to get them corrected.

 

My wife has been transcribing CGW train list for Jason Klocke. Thousands of entries! More super good stuff, but there’s an overload point me thinks…

Clark

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Red Owl warehouse

Clark Propst
 

Todd also asked: “It also raises lots of questions about where cars came from and where the loads out were going.  E.g., where did all that sugar in NP boxcars come from?  I don't suppose the seal books have origin or destination information?

 

Some of the seals did have the RR of origin. Others may have the place, but I have no way of knowing what That may have been. I may go back and add a column for seal origins?

 

I have to assume that Groceries out were to satellite warehouses or team tracks in towns with more than one store?

 

Im thinking of using this info in a Hindsight 20/20 clinic down the road. I think a grocery warehouse would work well on the small shelf layouts that car in vogue now. We all have lots of box cars  ;  ))

 

Clark

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Red Owl warehouse

Clark Propst
 

Todd wrote: “I did find one set of questionable initials = SLRX (St Louis Refrigerator Line - beer), which I think should be SRLX (Swift Refrigerator Line - meat).

 

The data was written with old style cursive letters. When I added the ORER info I found Id made several mistakes. I went back and worth between SRLX and SLRX. I found that my lettering was correct and the numbers matched the ORER. Strange I know.

Clark

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Red Owl warehouse

Clark Propst
 

Doug Harding wrote: “From a Sanborn Map it looks like the warehouse was served by the GN, with the MSTL tracks across the street. The MILW would have been near by. https://www.loc.gov/resource/g4144mm.g04339195006A/?sp=45&r=-0.005,0.919,0.835,0.53,0

 

Interesting. A question for Vern Wigman. Jason Klocke has an M&StL annual report talking about a produce addition in the late 50s they erected the Red Owl water tower at that time.

Clark

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

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