Date   

Re: Freight Terminals & Trains

Nelson Moyer
 

I searched on Passenger Terminals and Trains and found his other classic book for download.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Doug Paasch
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2021 3:15 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Freight Terminals & Trains

 

Thanks for pointing this scan out, Bob.  I noticed that the physical book they scanned was through the courtesy of funding by James J. Hill as mentioned on the first flyleaf.  Good old Jim Hill still educating us about railroading!

 

  Doug Paasch

 

On Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:38 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Freight Terminals & Trains

The 1912 book, Freight Terminals & Trains by John A. Droege, has a ton material applicable to the Steam Era.

Here is a link.

Freight Terminals and Trains: Including a Revision of Yards and Terminals - John Albert Droege - Google Books

This material can be download as a PDF or as plain text.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Freight Terminals & Trains

Doug Paasch
 

Thanks for pointing this scan out, Bob.  I noticed that the physical book they scanned was through the courtesy of funding by James J. Hill as mentioned on the first flyleaf.  Good old Jim Hill still educating us about railroading!

  Doug Paasch


On Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:38 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Freight Terminals & Trains

The 1912 book, Freight Terminals & Trains by John A. Droege, has a ton material applicable to the Steam Era.

Here is a link.

Freight Terminals and Trains: Including a Revision of Yards and Terminals - John Albert Droege - Google Books

This material can be download as a PDF or as plain text.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Mystery boxcars - anyone know what these are based off or of any similar cars?

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Cap,

As others have noted, these are Train Miniature cars. The Stark Trees boxcar with wooden ends might be convertible to a number of prototypes, especially if you shave off the grabs and don't count roof battens, except for that side sill that sticks out so alarmingly. Of course the door tracks and those huge Athearn-like claws are a serious flaw.

The 3/3/3 end on the SP car would be rarity. This one might be better if you cut the ends off and replaced them with Tichy or Westerfield pieces, depending on your possible prototype.

In general TM boxcars might have some historic value, but they really don't stand up to modern scrutiny. I had a mess of TM boxcars from when they were pretty much the only game in town, and all were sold off long ago except one I reworked with added separate details and custom lettering. Their all-wood refrigerator cars might have more applications for kit-bashing as reefers or boxcars (they lack that annoying sill), especially for a fictional private roadname. I have a couple of reefers that were on their way to becoming early boxcars for my Virginia Midland, but they're still sitting on my workbench. Someday maybe.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 1:25 PM CapnMatter <capnmatter@...> wrote:
I bought these cars for cheap at a trainshow the other day, I knew when I bought them they'd need work. I'm sure there's cars that line up with these, I just don't know of what. Anyone know?

Dimensions-
141.2mm long, or in HO 40ft
33.3mm wide, or 9ft 6in
35.9mm tall, or about 10ft tall

Attachments:


Re: Shell reporting mark ?ZWX

Tony Thompson
 

Richard Townsend wrote:

Based on that, I don't think the reporting mark is ?ZWX. I think it is SCMX. Back to front, I think we all agree that the last letter is "X." Rather than a "W" I think the next to last letter is an "M." It's easy to mix up a "W" with an "M" in a blurry photo given the similar strokes in the letters in this "font." The next letter to the left looks like a "Z" but it has that problem of reaching above the other letters and being quite degraded in the image. I don't think one can make a call on this letter based just on its image in this photo. Given that this appears to be a Shell Chemical Co. car, and that company has SCMX reporting marks, I'm going to say it must be a "C." And the first letter is obscured, but again given Shell Chemical Co., I will say it's an "S."

     I would agree with all of this. In my 1953 ORER, there is only one reporting mark listed for Shell Chemical (SCMX), so it's hard to see a likelihood of any others. And I can't resist pointing out that there WAS a registered user of ZMX, the Zummo Meat Co. of Beaumont, Texas. But I don't think this tank car is a Zummo car.

Tony Thompson




Re: Red Owl warehouse

Jack Mullen
 

On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 07:20 AM, Clark Propst wrote:

I’m taking a minute to glance at the sugar car seals. I’ll write down any initials in the seal numbers as I find them.

 

NP, Holly, ASR? ...

Holly is likely Holly Sugar, of Holly Colo., a beet sugar producer.  ASR suggests American Sugar Refining, an East coast producer of cane sugar with plants in New York, Boston, Baltimore and Louisiana.

A supermarket grocery warehouse would receive sugar from multiple locations, because the stores will carry multiple brands, and both cane and beet sugar. Beet sugar would tend to have a price advantage, while many cooks prefer cane sugar  for baking.

Jack Mullen


Re: Shell reporting mark ?ZWX

Richard Townsend
 

I'm going to take a stab at this. Here's a few things I noticed:
1. the reporting mark is unclear at best
2. The reporting mark is light struck
3. The top stroke of the "Z," if that is what it is, us higher than the tops of the other letters
4. The car appears to be lettered for the Shell Chemical Co.

Based on that, I don't think the reporting mark is ?ZWX. I think it is SCMX. Back to front, I think we all agree that the last letter is "X." Rather than a "W" I think the next to last letter is an "M." It's easy to mix up a "W" with an "M" in a blurry photo given the similar strokes in the letters in this "font." The next letter to the left looks like a "Z" but it has that problem of reaching above the other letters and being quite degraded in the image. I don't think one can make a call on this letter based just on its image in this photo. Given that this appears to be a Shell Chemical Co. car, and that company has SCMX reporting marks, I'm going to say it must be a "C." And the first letter is obscured, but again given Shell Chemical Co., I will say it's an "S."

Or I could be totally wrong.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: John Barry <northbaylines@...>
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Feb 28, 2021 11:46 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Shell reporting mark ?ZWX

Scanning some photos by Raymond V. Pelot of Martinez today, I noticed a pair of Shell tank cars in the foreground.  SCCX 1114 was a 7960 gal TMI with heater coils and a 345 gal dome.  The silver Shell car next to it is a mystery with a _ZWX reporting mark.  Perusal of the 36 and 55 tank car tariffs and the 43 ORER don't provide an obvious answer.  Any ideas on the full mark?

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 





Re: Shortening Kadee Running Board

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Tim,

Thanks much. I have heard of Molco, but never used any of their products. Sounds like it's time to visit their website.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 8:01 AM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Garth if you have not seen the MOLOCO 50 foot Morton running boards, you should
take a look at them. They have the correct rolled bottom flange found on none of the other
etched or plastic Morton running boards I've seen. (I admit I have not seen the Kadees.)
Plano simulated the flange on some of their covered hopper running boards - you glue the
flange precisely to the bottom of the edges of the rb.

Tim O'


On 2/27/2021 6:21 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Tony and Bruce,

I would love to go the other way and lengthen a Kadee 40' Morton running board to 50'. Most Western Pacific/Sacramento Northern/Tidewater Southern 50' PS-1s had Morton running boards, and I have a mess of these I would like to be more accurate.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Shell reporting mark ?ZWX

John Barry
 

Scanning some photos by Raymond V. Pelot of Martinez today, I noticed a pair of Shell tank cars in the foreground.  SCCX 1114 was a 7960 gal TMI with heater coils and a 345 gal dome.  The silver Shell car next to it is a mystery with a _ZWX reporting mark.  Perusal of the 36 and 55 tank car tariffs and the 43 ORER don't provide an obvious answer.  Any ideas on the full mark?

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 





Re: Mystery boxcars - anyone know what these are based off or of any similar cars?

Tony Thompson
 

Todd Sullivan  wrote:

They look like Train Miniature double wood sheathed steel end 40ft boxcars that have no particular prototype, AFAIK.

Definitely Train Miniature. That whole line was supposed to represent various 1920s cars, but they made MANY compromises so they could use one underframe and interchange the molds for ends, sides and roofs. A  number of the permutations that they did produce had no prototype. But the basic cars were SUPPOSED to have prototypes.

Tony Thompson




Re: Mystery boxcars - anyone know what these are based off or of any similar cars?

CapnMatter
 

That's what I was thinking company wise, and I figured they were freelance designs. I would like to kitbash them to 'proper' prototype cars, if we can find cars that match up to the dimensions (or if I have to cut it down, length wise.)

I just realized I did forget to measure the door. I'll get that as soon as possible, as I'm out of the house when writing this. Any other measurements that I should take when I can?

On Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:43 PM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
They look like Train Miniature double wood sheathed steel end 40ft boxcars that have no particular prototype, AFAIK.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Mystery boxcars - anyone know what these are based off or of any similar cars?

Todd Sullivan
 

They look like Train Miniature double wood sheathed steel end 40ft boxcars that have no particular prototype, AFAIK.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Mystery boxcars - anyone know what these are based off or of any similar cars?

Jim Gates
 


The white one appears to be a Train Miniature stock no 8073, part of the car spotter's series. Later released as stock no 2264. I believe the prototype actually had the doors down at the end of the side.

Jim Gates

On Sunday, February 28, 2021, 12:25:11 PM CST, CapnMatter <capnmatter@...> wrote:


I bought these cars for cheap at a trainshow the other day, I knew when I bought them they'd need work. I'm sure there's cars that line up with these, I just don't know of what. Anyone know?

Dimensions-
141.2mm long, or in HO 40ft
33.3mm wide, or 9ft 6in
35.9mm tall, or about 10ft tall


Freight Terminals & Trains

Bob Chaparro
 

Freight Terminals & Trains

The 1912 book, Freight Terminals & Trains by John A. Droege, has a ton material applicable to the Steam Era.

Here is a link.

Freight Terminals and Trains: Including a Revision of Yards and Terminals - John Albert Droege - Google Books

This material can be download as a PDF or as plain text.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Mystery boxcars - anyone know what these are based off or of any similar cars?

CapnMatter
 

I bought these cars for cheap at a trainshow the other day, I knew when I bought them they'd need work. I'm sure there's cars that line up with these, I just don't know of what. Anyone know?

Dimensions-
141.2mm long, or in HO 40ft
33.3mm wide, or 9ft 6in
35.9mm tall, or about 10ft tall


Re: Monon 1937 AAR boxcar

Eric Hansmann
 

Wow. Very nice work, Dick. It’s like a double A side 45 record. A great looking boxcar on stunning modified trucks. Thanks for sharing your work!

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Scott
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2021 5:28 PM
To: Steam Era Freight Cars <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Monon 1937 AAR boxcar

 

Mont Switzer's 2017 Chicagoland RPM presentation motivated me to model a Monon boxcar.  O-scale CIL 9157 began as an Intermountain kit.  I scratchbuilt a new roof walk for it from styrene strips, and I replaced some of the kit's more fragile styrene parts with brass equivalents.  I painted the car with Polly Scale and MicroLux acrylics, and lettered it with Protocraft decals.

 

The Monon had 450 of these 1937 AAR boxcars, with road numbers 9000-9449.  Pullman-Standard built them in 1941 and 1942, and all rode on National B-1 trucks.  O-scale B-1s are hard to find so I "scratch-bashed" these from 1970s-vintage Atlas Bettendorf trucks.  The Atlas side-frames were molded from high-impact polystyrene so the conversion wasn't difficult.  The attached photos show how I did it.

 

Stay well,

Dick Scott

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Burning Box Car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks for the pic, Mike!

 

I only saw some Monon coke cars when I visited relatives in Indiana.  They looked different from anything else.

 

No, sadly, I never saw them in Pittsburgh, but I haven’t stopped looking!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Aufderheide
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2021 6:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Burning Box Car

 

Eldon,

Mont might be in his basement working on sweet freightcar models instead of looking at his computer, so I will send along a Monon coke car photo.  The car in the photo was rebuilt from a low-sided composite gon with a super-structure added  If you look closely you can see where the side stakes bolted to the frame.  Others were rebuilt from boxcars.  As Mont related, these caught fire every so often, so the car series changes over time.  In my late 40s time period there were 4 series numbered 900-1039.

Do you ever see any of these Monon cars in your photos of Pittsburgh?

Best Regards,

Mike Aufderheide 


Re: Emailing: IMG_5838, IMG_5841

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Mont;

Thanks for sharing!

Those are very cool cars.

You must do a LOT of bashing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2021 9:04 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Emailing: IMG_5838, IMG_5841

Mike, Eldon and all,

The info that I have shows the MONON had two designs of composite coke cars. CIL 1019 is a former low side stone gon onto which the composite coke body was lowered and secured. MON 1033 shows a different design like MON 1028 that Mike shared. Same base car, but gon posts have been removed and different coke body lowered into place. I suspect that this later version was actually a composite boxcar body with the roof and doors removed before being lowered onto the former stone gon.

The MONON's Lafayette, IN SHOPS made all kinds of cars from these extremely sturdy 1920's era low side composite gondolas. In addition to the coke cars, there were head end cabooses, general service flat cars, and TOFC flat cars. All sorts of company service cars were constructed including wheel cars, boom cars and even a pile driver.

It is my understanding that the stone gons were constructed by Pullman in on-line Michigan City and hauled without wood components to the Monon's Lafayette Shops where they were completed.

The "do it yourself" nature of the Monon's car shops makes for some interesting modeling projects.

Mont
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:

IMG_5838
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Another eBay listing

Clark Propst
 


Re: Red Owl warehouse

Mont Switzer
 

For what it is worth the Michigan Sugar mill in Caro, MI is supposed to be the oldest standing business of this type in the USA.  It is inland and only served by rail and truck.

 

Mont Switzer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2021 10:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Red Owl warehouse

 

Great Western Sugar built a sugar terminal facility in Western Springs IL in the late 1950s/early 1960s. This is on the CB&Q triple track mainline in the Chicago suburbs. The sugar shipped from this facility came from Great Western's processing facilities in Colorado and Wyoming. So that would be 1,000 mile one way trip. Now by that time the commodity was being shipped in bulk by Airslide or the early PS-2 3-bay Covered Hoppers (especially to a terminal). These definitely influenced the transportation costs and I wonder if the transportation distance issue changed substantially between 1950 and 1960 for commodities like sugar.

Bill Hirt

On 2/27/2021 8:00 PM, np328 wrote:

Not to throw the Red Owl warehouse topic off or head off in a tangent, however with all due respect to "where the sugar comes from” regarding the Hopkins MN warehouse; 
   Sugar is (1) a bulk commodity, (2) it is publicly traded, and should it be cane or beet (3) it is grown in many areas around the US.


Sugar costs are low, low enough that in that the US sugar industry, price supports exist to maintain US sugar independence.  

And because of all of the above - shipping transport costs quickly assume a great importance to final prices when all other costs tend to be either low or stable across large areas. 
Here we have both.

      I dislike greatly the mixing of data across eras, and am aware of this lists cut-off date of 1960, something I very strongly support. However ask that the map introduced by this link be looked at and ask yourself the question; with all these sugar processing options closer to the Hopkins, MN Red Owl warehouse, just south of the Twin Cities or in the Red River Valley, why would one go into MT?             Billings is closer (550-600 miles) to the population center of Denver, CO and seems a more logical destination.  (Wasn't there a large baking consortium there?)


https://sugaralliance.org/us-sugar/sugars-coast-to-coast-reach

_,_._,_


Re: Monon 1937 AAR boxcar

Mont Switzer
 

Dick,

 

Well done.

 

As a side note, cars 9001-9150 had ASF A-3’s. 

 

CI&L 9157 had the National B-1 trucks which you so nicely crafted. 

 

Are those trucks made from the slick engineering plastic, and if so how did you do so well attaching details?

 

Mont

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Scott
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2021 6:28 PM
To: Steam Era Freight Cars <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Monon 1937 AAR boxcar

 

Mont Switzer's 2017 Chicagoland RPM presentation motivated me to model a Monon boxcar.  O-scale CIL 9157 began as an Intermountain kit.  I scratchbuilt a new roof walk for it from styrene strips, and I replaced some of the kit's more fragile styrene parts with brass equivalents.  I painted the car with Polly Scale and MicroLux acrylics, and lettered it with Protocraft decals.

 

The Monon had 450 of these 1937 AAR boxcars, with road numbers 9000-9449.  Pullman-Standard built them in 1941 and 1942, and all rode on National B-1 trucks.  O-scale B-1s are hard to find so I "scratch-bashed" these from 1970s-vintage Atlas Bettendorf trucks.  The Atlas side-frames were molded from high-impact polystyrene so the conversion wasn't difficult.  The attached photos show how I did it.

 

Stay well,

Dick Scott

 

Attachments:

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