Date   

Re: Help Identifying Unusual Boxcar (MoPac coke service?)

Todd Sullivan
 

I think that finding an MP coke car on the SP Toledo Branch is a little far-fetched. The SP converted several different kinds of single sheathed boxcars into 'hog fuel' (woodchip) cars, including some 40 footers.  They al had pretty odd side doors for unloading.  Also, there was a fairly healthy business hauling woodchips from lumber mills to paper mills on the SP in Oregon beginning in the late 1940s. 

My SP freight car books are packed away, so I can't check, but did the SP have any 40 foot cars with inverse Murphy ends?  BTW, I could be easily convinced that the herald is an SP herald and not an MP herald.  Can anyone check in Tony Thompson's Boxcar book to see what this might be?

Todd Sullivan


Re: Help Identifying Unusual Boxcar (MoPac coke service?)

mel perry
 

still interesting, that it wound up in the
backwoods of oregon?
;-)
mel perry

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021, 9:29 PM Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Mar 6, 2021, at 7:43 PM, Ken Roth <krowth3249@...> wrote:

I have a picture of a train on the S.P. Toledo branch in Oregon taken circa 1949.  I would like to know the prototype for the unusual double-sheathed boxcar directly behind the engine.  It appears to be a modified boxcar (roof removed and extra side doors added).  It appears also to have a "inverse Murphy ribbed end".  It is most definitely not an S.P. car and the reporting marks might be M.P.  The herald also perhaps might suggest M.P.  I looked in the 1950 ORER and found MoPac boxcars converted to coke cars.  If so, I have no idea what its doing on a branch in the Oregon woods! I have not been able to find any MoPac photo online that might confirm my guess.   Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
Ken Roth

Ken & others interested,
While the 1950 photo isn’t sufficiently clear to provide a car number, the visible clue is the Murphy end that’s the spotting feature to determine the origin. The MP coke car in the view was converted from a 36’ IL double-sheathed box car having 7-7 Murphy ends with inward-facing corrugations. The origin was 850 cars built by Pennsylvania Car Co. numbered 120000-120249 (1925) & 120250-120849 (1926).

Starting with 7 cars in 4-6/1945, MoPac converted 14 such roofless coke cars numbered as part of series 120000-120849 with Murphy ends by 4/49.

Another 900 similar MP 36’ DS box cars, but with Dreadnaught ends, were built by ACF in series 120850-121149 (1927) and by the MP DeSoto, Mo. railroad car shops, 121150-121749 (1929). During the same period as the Murphy-end cars, MoPac converted an additional 16 box cars having Dreadnaught ends as roofless coke cars with car numbers in the latter two series.

ORER’s from July 1945 thru Jan. 1951 have notes in the various groups in series 120000-121749 that relate to the MP roofless coke cars that list the specific car numbers in revenue service. The 30 coke cars retained the same car numbers as the original 36’ DS box cars. 

The service life-span of these 30 roofless coke cars was relatively short-lived as 28 remaining cars in 1/51 were reduced to zero cars in revenue service by 4/51. RP CYC Volume 14 included a short discussion of these coke cars & a photo of MP 121368 having Dreadnaught ends.

Attached is a MP diagram scan representing the first 10 coke cars converted in mid-1945 with 7 car numbers having Murphy ends & 3 car numbers having Dreadnaught ends. It denotes the sizes of three door openings per side, which were covered with slatted sliding wood doors.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Help Identifying Unusual Boxcar (MoPac coke service?)

Ed Hawkins
 



On Mar 6, 2021, at 7:43 PM, Ken Roth <krowth3249@...> wrote:

I have a picture of a train on the S.P. Toledo branch in Oregon taken circa 1949.  I would like to know the prototype for the unusual double-sheathed boxcar directly behind the engine.  It appears to be a modified boxcar (roof removed and extra side doors added).  It appears also to have a "inverse Murphy ribbed end".  It is most definitely not an S.P. car and the reporting marks might be M.P.  The herald also perhaps might suggest M.P.  I looked in the 1950 ORER and found MoPac boxcars converted to coke cars.  If so, I have no idea what its doing on a branch in the Oregon woods! I have not been able to find any MoPac photo online that might confirm my guess.   Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
Ken Roth

Ken & others interested,
While the 1950 photo isn’t sufficiently clear to provide a car number, the visible clue is the Murphy end that’s the spotting feature to determine the origin. The MP coke car in the view was converted from a 36’ IL double-sheathed box car having 7-7 Murphy ends with inward-facing corrugations. The origin was 850 cars built by Pennsylvania Car Co. numbered 120000-120249 (1925) & 120250-120849 (1926).

Starting with 7 cars in 4-6/1945, MoPac converted 14 such roofless coke cars numbered as part of series 120000-120849 with Murphy ends by 4/49.

Another 900 similar MP 36’ DS box cars, but with Dreadnaught ends, were built by ACF in series 120850-121149 (1927) and by the MP DeSoto, Mo. railroad car shops, 121150-121749 (1929). During the same period as the Murphy-end cars, MoPac converted an additional 16 box cars having Dreadnaught ends as roofless coke cars with car numbers in the latter two series.

ORER’s from July 1945 thru Jan. 1951 have notes in the various groups in series 120000-121749 that relate to the MP roofless coke cars that list the specific car numbers in revenue service. The 30 coke cars retained the same car numbers as the original 36’ DS box cars. 

The service life-span of these 30 roofless coke cars was relatively short-lived as 28 remaining cars in 1/51 were reduced to zero cars in revenue service by 4/51. RP CYC Volume 14 included a short discussion of these coke cars & a photo of MP 121368 having Dreadnaught ends.

Attached is a MP diagram scan representing the first 10 coke cars converted in mid-1945 with 7 car numbers having Murphy ends & 3 car numbers having Dreadnaught ends. It denotes the sizes of three door openings per side, which were covered with slatted sliding wood doors.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Help Identifying Unusual Boxcar (MoPac coke service?)

Richard Brennan
 

...an early-style SP Hog Fuel car might be a more likely candidate up in that part of Oregon.

The first letter of the road name peeking out under the shadow on the end appears to be rounded;
I can't convince myself it would be an "M".

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------

At 05:43 PM 3/6/2021, Ken Roth wrote:
I have a picture of a train on the S.P. Toledo branch in Oregon taken circa 1949. I would like to know the prototype for the unusual double-sheathed boxcar directly behind the engine. It appears to be a modified boxcar (roof removed and extra side doors added). It appears also to have a "inverse Murphy ribbed end". It is most definitely not an S.P. car and the reporting marks might be M.P. The herald also perhaps might suggest M.P. I looked in the 1950 ORER and found MoPac boxcars converted to coke cars. If so, I have no idea what its doing on a branch in the Oregon woods! I have not been able to find any MoPac photo online that might confirm my guess. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


Re: eBay Follies

Tony Thompson
 

Tom Madden wrote:

Tom Madden, who can't believe we've spent any time discussing this....
Full agreement.
Tony Thompson


Re: eBay Follies

Tom Madden
 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 06:37 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 04:38 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Exactly! How the heck could the crates be placed that way? you couldn't get the 2nd one in if the 1st one was halfway across the door!
We really can't see the crates on the other side of the car. 
Well, you can if you look at the eBay listing. There are several other photos, one of which shows the opposite side with several small crates in the door opening. So the large crates were loaded first, from the other side, then the smaller crates were put in place. Pretty haphazard arrangement. Considering the Athearn roof is part of the body, the crates were stuffed into the model the same way. An amateur's version of superdetailing.

Tom Madden, who can't believe we've spent any time discussing this....


Re: eBay Follies

 

Except that the Athearn boxcar has centered doors...

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Mar 6, 2021, at 7:37 PM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 04:38 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Exactly! How the heck could the crates be placed that way? you couldn't get the 2nd one in if the 1st one was halfway across the door!
We really can't see the crates on the other side of the car. Possibly, on that side the crate is centered in the door. Kind of like paper rolls are loaded. If that's the case, the only thing missing is the UNLOAD OTHER SIDE placard.

Dennis Storzek


Re: eBay Follies

 

That’s my point!

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Mar 6, 2021, at 6:38 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Brian,

Exactly! How the heck could the crates be placed that way? you couldn't get the 2nd one in if the 1st one was halfway across the door! Of course, my lovely wife did come up with a possible explanation - the crates could have been built in place.  All well and good, but then how the heck do you get them out?????

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 10:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Crates too large to be placed that way? Assuming they fit thru the door, one should be opposite the opening.

 

 

Thanks!
--

<image001.png>

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 8:45 AM
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies

 


Help Identifying Unusual Boxcar (MoPac coke service?)

Ken Roth
 

I have a picture of a train on the S.P. Toledo branch in Oregon taken circa 1949.  I would like to know the prototype for the unusual double-sheathed boxcar directly behind the engine.  It appears to be a modified boxcar (roof removed and extra side doors added).  It appears also to have a "inverse Murphy ribbed end".  It is most definitely not an S.P. car and the reporting marks might be M.P.  The herald also perhaps might suggest M.P.  I looked in the 1950 ORER and found MoPac boxcars converted to coke cars.  If so, I have no idea what its doing on a branch in the Oregon woods! I have not been able to find any MoPac photo online that might confirm my guess.   Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
Ken Roth


Re: eBay Follies

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 04:38 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Exactly! How the heck could the crates be placed that way? you couldn't get the 2nd one in if the 1st one was halfway across the door!
We really can't see the crates on the other side of the car. Possibly, on that side the crate is centered in the door. Kind of like paper rolls are loaded. If that's the case, the only thing missing is the UNLOAD OTHER SIDE placard.

Dennis Storzek


Re: MM

cliffprather
 

It illustrates that the cars were not in a pool for the industry and that there were plenty of other sources on empty cars. I did not mean to imply that the cars came into the industry and were unloaded and loaded instead of being pulled after unloading.

cliff


Re: eBay Follies

Steve and Barb Hile
 

From the prototype model standpoint, the biggest issue is that the boxcar is advertising Shock Control DF, but the craters on the interior are not, at all restrained!

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Summers via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 6:58 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies

 

The answer is simple.  They’re Athearn boxcars.  The top, sides, and ends are one piece, they lift that piece off the underframe, the load is removed, and the body piece is replaced.  Done!



On Mar 6, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:



Brian,

 

Exactly! How the heck could the crates be placed that way? you couldn't get the 2nd one in if the 1st one was halfway across the door! Of course, my lovely wife did come up with a possible explanation - the crates could have been built in place.  All well and good, but then how the heck do you get them out?????

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 10:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Crates too large to be placed that way? Assuming they fit thru the door, one should be opposite the opening.

 

 

Thanks!
--

<image001.png>


Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 8:45 AM
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies

 


Re: eBay Follies

Steve Summers
 

The answer is simple.  They’re Athearn boxcars.  The top, sides, and ends are one piece, they lift that piece off the underframe, the load is removed, and the body piece is replaced.  Done!


On Mar 6, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Brian,

Exactly! How the heck could the crates be placed that way? you couldn't get the 2nd one in if the 1st one was halfway across the door! Of course, my lovely wife did come up with a possible explanation - the crates could have been built in place.  All well and good, but then how the heck do you get them out?????

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 10:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Crates too large to be placed that way? Assuming they fit thru the door, one should be opposite the opening.

 

 

Thanks!
--

<image001.png>

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 8:45 AM
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies

 


Re: eBay Follies

Charles Peck
 

My thought was that everything got loaded from the far side. This door was opened by mistake. The tag for "unload from this side" having been lost.  OK, I'm just justifying a mistake. 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 7:38 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Brian,

Exactly! How the heck could the crates be placed that way? you couldn't get the 2nd one in if the 1st one was halfway across the door! Of course, my lovely wife did come up with a possible explanation - the crates could have been built in place.  All well and good, but then how the heck do you get them out?????

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 10:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Crates too large to be placed that way? Assuming they fit thru the door, one should be opposite the opening.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 8:45 AM
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies

 


Re: eBay Follies

Bruce Smith
 

Brian,

Exactly! How the heck could the crates be placed that way? you couldn't get the 2nd one in if the 1st one was halfway across the door! Of course, my lovely wife did come up with a possible explanation - the crates could have been built in place.  All well and good, but then how the heck do you get them out?????

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 10:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Crates too large to be placed that way? Assuming they fit thru the door, one should be opposite the opening.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 8:45 AM
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies

 


Re: eBay Follies

Tony Thompson
 

Doug Harding wrote:

. . . I didn’t make much, but they were gone.

Exactly.

Tony Thompson




Re: eBay Follies

Douglas Harding
 

I sold a bunch at the last NMRA meet in our area in the silent auction, with compatible couplers and metal wheels. I priced them at $1 apiece thinking someone new in the hobby or a kit could get a start. One of the used equipment dealers came through put the min bid down and got most of them as no one else bid. I didn’t make much, but they were gone.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 2:37 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] eBay Follies

 

Ben

You are familiar with the game of roulette? Well, sale prices on Ebay for us amateurs follow that pattern.
Mostly, you lose a little... and then every once in a while you hit it BIG.

:-D


On 3/6/2021 1:25 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Tony Thompson wrote:

"So Ben, cruising the Internet for more good ol' Athearn Blue Box cars?"

 

Actually, trying to get rid of a bunch and doing pricing research as quick sales at local shows are off the table at the moment.  Plus I have way more than what I'll ever need as kitbash fodder.

 

Ben Hom

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Need about 15 HO brake reservoirs for project

Chuck Cover
 

Hey RJ,

 

I mailed out a few K brake units that were in my parts bin.  Thanks again.

 

Chuck

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of radiodial868
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 7:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Need about 15 HO brake reservoirs for project

 

Found 7 from recent builds. Additional ones from years past are still packed away in the basement.
Will put in the mail tomorrow. 
If you ever end up with extra KC brakes, let me know as I can always use those.
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: eBay Follies

Tim O'Connor
 

Ben

You are familiar with the game of roulette? Well, sale prices on Ebay for us amateurs follow that pattern.
Mostly, you lose a little... and then every once in a while you hit it BIG.

:-D


On 3/6/2021 1:25 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Tony Thompson wrote:
"So Ben, cruising the Internet for more good ol' Athearn Blue Box cars?"

Actually, trying to get rid of a bunch and doing pricing research as quick sales at local shows are off the table at the moment.  Plus I have way more than what I'll ever need as kitbash fodder.

Ben Hom


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Jon Miller obituary

Tom Madden
 

Jon's daughter, Stephanie, has sent this link to Jon's obituary:
https://hayward.chapelofthechimes.com/obituaries/Jon-Miller-7/#!/Obituary

It's fairly simple and focuses on Jon's railroad interests. For those who didn't know Jon (who stuck to west coast RPM events for the most part), he was a skilled craftsman and did the patterns for the Westerfield Santa Fe Bx-11/12/13 boxcar kits. He may also have done the Bx-3/6 patterns as well, but I can't find my instruction sheet for that kit to verify.

Too many losses....

Tom Madden

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