Date   

Re: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Bruce Smith
 

Garth,

Nice photo of the decapod kits!  

While it certainly is likely that home road cars were used for these loads, it is by no means a rule. Thus, Baldwin built S160s could be loaded on ANY available flat car, without concern about car service rules. 

Here's a photo of USA S160/Sha class #93 and tender. The engine is on a NYC flat. The tender is on an ATSF flat (40 ton). I'm pretty sure that they were loaded at the same place 😉 Now, you're going to say Aha!  #93 is on a NYC flat, it must be an Alco product! And you would be right that it is an Alco product. Sha 1-89 were Baldwin, Sha 90-148 (class USA/TC S166) were Alco, and Sha 149-199 (class USA/TC S162) were also Alco.

Here are a few photos that Gary posted links to 9 years ago, from the Museum at the University of Montana, purportedly passing through Missoula. These are Sha 24 and 25 on PRR F30A flats. These are Baldwin built (wait, that's disproving my point about random flats!). Unfortunately, the links from that message are dead, but fortunately, I downloaded the photos. Note the tenders loaded in gons.

BTW, a great resource on all of these locos is "Allied Military Locomotives of the Second World War, by R. Tourret, Tourret Publishing. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 4:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Elden,

Something like these two photos? Based on what Gary said, these are probably Baldwins since they are on Pennsylvania flat cars. So are they going to Russia, or to western Europe? Don't know. I would vote for Russia, since they seemed to like decapods. The two photos come from a War Department publication on WWII U.S. Army transportation in all forms that I found in the U.S. Govt Documents section at the UVA Library where I worked. Yes, they are public domain.

Makes me wonder if better photos might be found in the National Archives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Elden,

Something like these two photos? Based on what Gary said, these are probably Baldwins since they are on Pennsylvania flat cars. So are they going to Russia, or to western Europe? Don't know. I would vote for Russia, since they seemed to like decapods. The two photos come from a War Department publication on WWII U.S. Army transportation in all forms that I found in the U.S. Govt Documents section at the UVA Library where I worked. Yes, they are public domain.

Makes me wonder if better photos might be found in the National Archives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 2:12 PM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Gary;

 

Any photos of the gons or flat cars?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:39 PM
To: 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Bruce Smith
 

Gary, Elden, Folks,

Unless you have some evidence, I highly doubt that the carriers supplying the flat cars controlled the routing. There are several reasons for this.

1) Shippers controlled the routing (usually).
2) During WWII, car service rules were suspended for flat cars, so car owners no longer had any control over the movement of their cars. 
3) If anyone was dictating routes for war materiel, other than the shipper, it would have been the ODT (Office of Defense Transportation).

Shipments of the S160 type locomotive (2-8-0) were common to both coasts. ALCo, Baldwin, and Lima all contributed. With the release of the Roco S160 a few years back, I got more serious about modeling this traffic, as the previous S160 in HO was a kit from DJH, but both cost in the range of $300+ and that does seem a bit steep for a flat car load, where I plan to gut the electronics and motor ;) (so if anyone has a Roco S160 that blew its guts… let me know!

I have numerous photos of these loads. I downloaded 5 or so photos that were from links to the museum of U of Montana, posted by you, Gary, to this list, back on March 16, 2012 - so I’m not sure why you told Elden there were no photos ;) I’ll post some when I get home tonight. I also remember that there is a photo in DeNevi’s book America's Fighting Railroads: A World War II Pictorial History.

BTW, these were called the Sha class by the Soviets. 

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Mar 9, 2021, at 12:38 PM, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn. 
Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.
 
The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   
 
The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.
 
Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217.  
 
This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly.  
 
 
Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks, Gary!

 

I am always interested in freight cars being used in less common usage.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 2:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Elden:

 

None.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Gary;

 

Any photos of the gons or flat cars?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:39 PM
To: 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

gary laakso
 

Elden:

 

None.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Gary;

 

Any photos of the gons or flat cars?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:39 PM
To: 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Gary;

 

Any photos of the gons or flat cars?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:39 PM
To: 'stmfc' <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

 

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Locomotives to the USSR via Portland, OR and the SP&S

gary laakso
 

Paul Hobbs wrote a lengthy article in the Winter 2021 issue of The Northwest’s Own Railroad on the 200 built 2-8-0s in the 5’-0” Russian gauge delivered to SP&S for shipment to the USSR via Vladivostok  followed by 1,500 2-10-0 “kits” for assembly by Willamette Iron and Steel Company and ending with steam boilered electric power generation multi car units.

 

The carriers supplying the flat cars to the locomotive builders controlled the routing with ALCO products going via NYC, EJE, CBQ, GN, SPS.  NYC used their flatcars numbered 499213, 499346, 499778, 499136, 499260 and 499676 hauled a shipment of 8 2-8-0s.  All were 52’-6” flatcars of 140,000 lbs. capacity.  Shipments of locomotives from Baldwin were routed PRR, CB&Q to the S. Paul connections.  The decapod kits were shipped on 3 flat cars and the dock area was regauged to 5’-0” to hold them awaiting freighters.  The article notes that ships to Vladivostok did not travel in convoys and were regularly inspected by the Imperial Japanese Navy at sea.   

 

The electric power plants were in 3-car, 8-car and 10-car units.  The ten car consist had two locomotive boiler cars, two coal tenders, one turbine, one condenser, one switch gear car, three cooling water tower cars, one maintenance and crew quarters car,   The units were built by Westinghouse, GE and ACF with Russian couplers  (requiring two PRR gondolas as converter cars)and spare Russian gauge trucks to be added at the port.    The first 10-car power train was routed ACF Berwick, DLW, NKP, CBQ, NP, SPS.  While the first train was allowed to move at 40 mph, all those that followed were limited to 25 mph.   The trains also included up to 6 cars of parts plus the replacement trucks.

 

Other routings included ACK Berwick, DLW, NYC, CNW, NP SPS with gondolas used including PMCKY 92323, 91587, RDG 23964, PLE 43777, 48581 and THB (! )2217. 

 

This is a meaty issue of the SP&S quarterly. 

 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: eBay Follies

Tim O'Connor
 


The imminent demise of Ebay has been predicted for 15+ years. :-D

I just checked - 1,195 HO scale brass auctions. That number (roughly 1,000 auctions) has been
a constant for the past 20 years, give or take. I don't look at any other scales because I don't care
about them. :-P

Athearn probably made 10 or 20 million kits over the years. They will be still be around as long as
civilization still exists or until the plastic reverts to its elemental components.

Tim O'Connor


On 3/8/2021 7:04 PM, G.J. Irwin wrote:

Somewhat off topic, but "on another network" there is a thread called "More eBay Follies" which is approaching 400 pages in length...

In general, I think the overall defection from eBay by model railroad sellers and buyers continues.  The vast majority of N and Z Scale listings are "Buy It Now" and a non-trivial proportion of these are "Are You Kidding" prices. 

I have been in the slow process of settling my father's estate which contained many, many assembled Athearn Blue Box kits along with similar items.  For two years running, my wife and I plastic bagged* them and sold them at a local show for between $1 and $4 each, in the "Bargain Basement" literally under the table of the more expensive items.  The principal buyers have been children and young families.  You should see the kids' eyes light up when they find out that they can get a handful of cars for less than $10 total. 

Still waiting to confront the "flipper" who snagged a Lehigh Valley "X29" (not really) which was third party painted out of that box for $2 and promptly plopped it on his table for $12.  "Hey, where's the brake wheel on that car?  I know it's not there because you bought it from me!"  Next show, it's "Grownups must bring a child under 12 years old to buy from the Bargain Basement..."  Or maybe, "You must be shorter than this table to buy anything underneath it..."

Cheers,
George Irwin


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: NJI&I to Wabash at Pine

Gary Roe
 

Randy,

I checked; but am sorry to report there were none.

gary roe
quincy, illinois


On Monday, March 8, 2021, 11:34:35 PM CST, Randy Hammill <nhrr@...> wrote:


Fantastic info! Any more loads to CT on the other pages?

Thanks for sharing.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: NJI&I to Wabash at Pine

Gary Roe
 

Schuyler,

Yes, the destination for Wabash Train 96 was Melvindale Yard in Detroit; but the car could very likely have been interchanged with another road for delivery to the consignee.

Thanks for your speculations!

gary roe
quincy, illinois



On Monday, March 8, 2021, 10:01:46 PM CST, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:


Gary, I added a column noting what I’d >>speculate<< would be the final roads handling these cars.  I don’t really KNOW these are correct, but knowing something about what railroads served the destinations, I think these are fairly good guesses.

 

The Weehawken and the lighterage destination could be ERIE, but I am not at all sure about that . . . and my predilections may influence that guess.

 

I can’t speculate on the Detroit car, except isn’t that on the WAB?

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Roe
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2021 1:07 PM
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] NJI&I to Wabash at Pine

 

I was recently able to acquire 4 pages of "Daily Interchange Report of Cars" from the NJI&I to the Wabash at Pine, Indiana.  For those unfamiliar with the NJI&I, it was a Wabash subsidiary which ran about 11 miles from South Bend to Pine.  The following list is dated 06May53.  It is cars which were left between 11P and midnight for pick up by Eastbound Wabash Train #96.  Employee timetable shows #96 due at Pine around 3A; but a note on the report shows it due at Pine around 9A on 07May.  All cars originated at South Bend.  I am showing Initials, Number, Destination, Contents.

 

Looks like Studebaker was going strong in 1953!

 

Hope the formatting comes thru intact.

 

gary roe

quincy, illinois

 

             Destination                Delivering road

Wab  49219   Roxbury MA          Autos  NH

LV   6234    Roxbury MA          Autos  NH

LV   6649    Roxbury MA          Autos  NH

Wab  49348   Bronx NY            Autos  NH?

Wab  49162   Warrensburg NY      Autos  D&H

Wab  49701   Somerville MA       Autos  B&M via D&H

Wab  49757   Mariden CT          Autos  NH

LV   6627    Plattsburg NY       Autos  D&H

LV   6635    New Haven CT        Autos  NH

LV   6618    Northampton MA      Autos  NH? Or B&M via D&H?

LV   6305    New Bedford MA      Autos  NH

Wab  49325   Weehawken NJ        Autos

Wab  49136   Weehawken NJ        Autos

Wab  49526   Worcester MA        Autos  NH

PM   83743   NY Ltge Sta NJ      Agricultural Implements    

Wab  49512   Portsmouth NH       Autos  B&M

Wab  49462   Gardner Heywood MA  Autos  B&M

Wab  49120   Lynn MA             Autos  B&M

CP   294924  Presque Isle ME     Autos  BAR via D&H/B&M?

CP   294984  Presque Isle ME     Autos  BAR via D&H/B&M?

CP   294952  Cambridge MA        Autos  B&M via D&H

CN   662759  Detroit MI          Machinery

RDG  32202   Niagara Falls NY    --

RDG  102050  Milan NH            --     B&M via D&H**

C&O  51134   Toledo OH           --

C&O  117019  Toledo OH           --

 

* Looks like "NY Ltge Sta NJ"

-- Empty

** But as an empty, NJI&I was more likely just getting this car off their railroad and onto the WAB to avoid per diem charges.

 

Schuyler


Re: L&N Woodrack -- 4

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Chris,
 
many thanks for these pics - the cars look VERY nice! These additions really look special. How are they secured to the flat car (on the prototypes)? I can see they are atop some chunks of wood - but how secured? Only through the diagonal rods at the car ends at the center line?
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Montag, 08. März 2021 um 02:28 Uhr
Von: "bigfourroad" <vannessco@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] L&N Woodrack -- 4
I am sorry my photos did not make it into ioGroups. Let's try that again. Here are photos of S scale SAL pulpwood cars the SAL made from flatcars with a simple addition made from used rails.  Again apologies for the pix, they were taken into a display case - fine for display but not for pix.  Chris Rooney
Chris 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] BOILER LOADS

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

OK, Bob, what’s the punch line?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 12:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] BOILER LOADS

 

I have a photo of one of these on a raised-center flat car behind a Penn Central cab forward taken somewhere in Utah.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
Turboencabulator - Wikipedia


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Help Identifying Unusual Boxcar (MoPac coke service?)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

CJ;

 

That story is just too crazy.  Not unusually, quite believable.

 

Hard to understand how he found them!

 

There was a burnt gon on the PRR that they never IDed the owner of.  The fire was so hot it burned off ALL the lettering.

 

As I recall, it was a composite gon, roasted down to the framing.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of CJ Riley via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 1:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Help Identifying Unusual Boxcar (MoPac coke service?)

 

In my youth U commuted with a Pennsy man whose job was to locate missing or misrouted cars. A full time job it seemed. The worst were a pair of long missing PRR box cars he finally located in Mexico. The were fully equipped as homes with windows and all and occupied by two families. He wrote them off as wrecked.





Re: NJI&I to Wabash at Pine

Benjamin Hom
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
"The Weehawken and the lighterage destination could be ERIE, but I am not at all sure about that . . . and my predilections may influence that guess."

It could be Erie, but it's far more likely to be New York Central as the West Shore had a large facility at Weehawken.  Erie's larger New Jersey carfloat operations were at Ninth St., Jersey City.


Ben Hom



Re: NJI&I to Wabash at Pine

Randy Hammill
 

Fantastic info! Any more loads to CT on the other pages?

Thanks for sharing.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: Help Identifying Unusual Boxcar (MoPac coke service?)

Randy Hammill
 

Even nowadays they make mistakes.

I went for a ride-along on the CNZR, and the crew told me that Pan Am had picked up the wrong cut of cars a couple of days ago, they were supposed to be picked up by CSOR if I recall. They were brought back the a couple of days later, when I was there. The problem was that they didn’t really have space for the return of the wrong cars...

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: Rio Grande Oil Company HO decals special run

John Barry
 

Tony,

That could even be more of a paint out rather than a patch. RGOX --> R OX

I'm starting to like the idea.

Johnv

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 





On Monday, March 8, 2021, 02:59:55 PM EST, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


John, given how recently (for your modeling) the Rio Grande sale to Richfield occurred, you could certainly "patch" a Rio Grande Oil paint scheme for ROX reporting marks and number.

Tony Thompson




Re: Rio Grande Oil Company HO decals special run

John Barry
 

Thanks Dave,

I had to start work before I could make that comparison. I concur about the match.

John

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 





On Monday, March 8, 2021, 11:25:23 AM EST, Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...> wrote:


On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 04:37 AM, John Barry wrote:
Now if I can figure out which of the ROX 10K cars came from the RGOX prototypes for the Tangent cars.
The exact same cars, with the same car numbers, appear as RGOX cars in the 1936 tariff, and as ROX cars in the 1955 edition.  These were cars 201, 203-210, 226-240.  These were (very likely) all 10-kgal GATC 1917 design cars with 256-gal domes.  The tank volumes match exactly across the two tariffs.
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: An unusual car - compressed gas

Tony Thompson
 

Jeff Ford wrote:

Agreed on the similarities to Helium tank cars.  I can't help but wonder if the government didn't look to the Pintsch cars for inspiration. 

Doubtful except in a very general sense. The Pintsch gas was carried at only a few atmospheres pressure. Helium, even in the earliest day, was carried at 100 atmospheres or more.

Tony Thompson




Re: NJI&I to Wabash at Pine

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Gary, I added a column noting what I’d >>speculate<< would be the final roads handling these cars.  I don’t really KNOW these are correct, but knowing something about what railroads served the destinations, I think these are fairly good guesses.

 

The Weehawken and the lighterage destination could be ERIE, but I am not at all sure about that . . . and my predilections may influence that guess.

 

I can’t speculate on the Detroit car, except isn’t that on the WAB?

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Roe
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2021 1:07 PM
To: STMFC E-List <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] NJI&I to Wabash at Pine

 

I was recently able to acquire 4 pages of "Daily Interchange Report of Cars" from the NJI&I to the Wabash at Pine, Indiana.  For those unfamiliar with the NJI&I, it was a Wabash subsidiary which ran about 11 miles from South Bend to Pine.  The following list is dated 06May53.  It is cars which were left between 11P and midnight for pick up by Eastbound Wabash Train #96.  Employee timetable shows #96 due at Pine around 3A; but a note on the report shows it due at Pine around 9A on 07May.  All cars originated at South Bend.  I am showing Initials, Number, Destination, Contents.

 

Looks like Studebaker was going strong in 1953!

 

Hope the formatting comes thru intact.

 

gary roe

quincy, illinois

 

             Destination                Delivering road

Wab  49219   Roxbury MA          Autos  NH

LV   6234    Roxbury MA          Autos  NH

LV   6649    Roxbury MA          Autos  NH

Wab  49348   Bronx NY            Autos  NH?

Wab  49162   Warrensburg NY      Autos  D&H

Wab  49701   Somerville MA       Autos  B&M via D&H

Wab  49757   Mariden CT          Autos  NH

LV   6627    Plattsburg NY       Autos  D&H

LV   6635    New Haven CT        Autos  NH

LV   6618    Northampton MA      Autos  NH? Or B&M via D&H?

LV   6305    New Bedford MA      Autos  NH

Wab  49325   Weehawken NJ        Autos

Wab  49136   Weehawken NJ        Autos

Wab  49526   Worcester MA        Autos  NH

PM   83743   NY Ltge Sta NJ      Agricultural Implements    

Wab  49512   Portsmouth NH       Autos  B&M

Wab  49462   Gardner Heywood MA  Autos  B&M

Wab  49120   Lynn MA             Autos  B&M

CP   294924  Presque Isle ME     Autos  BAR via D&H/B&M?

CP   294984  Presque Isle ME     Autos  BAR via D&H/B&M?

CP   294952  Cambridge MA        Autos  B&M via D&H

CN   662759  Detroit MI          Machinery

RDG  32202   Niagara Falls NY    --

RDG  102050  Milan NH            --     B&M via D&H**

C&O  51134   Toledo OH           --

C&O  117019  Toledo OH           --

 

* Looks like "NY Ltge Sta NJ"

-- Empty

** But as an empty, NJI&I was more likely just getting this car off their railroad and onto the WAB to avoid per diem charges.

 

Schuyler

5221 - 5240 of 187801