Re: "Tyranical" USRA in 1918
Eric Hansmann
Thanks for sharing that correspondence, Ike. I suspect there were similar letters from other lines. I know the Nickel Plate refused their USRA double-sheathed boxcar assignments and the Lehigh Valley refused their USRA hoppers.
A key USRA freight car article was published by James E. Lane in the Spring 1973 Railway and Locomotive Historical Society’s “Railroad History, No. 128”. The article features tables of the original equipment allotments, based upon what USRA officials felt the individual lines needed for their routes. There are also tables of the final equipment assignments. I created a resource page with the USRA assignment data on my blog. http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/
I mentioned earlier that the Nickel Plate refused their cars, yet they are on the assignment list. The cars were in service for a couple of years with Nickel Plate lettering until the Wabash picked them up in 1922. Several notes appear on my data tables to indicate ownership change in the years after USRA control was relinquished.
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 8:06 PM To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io; RealSTMFC@groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] "Tyranical" USRA in 1918
While scanning multiple WWI era files in the SRHA archives, I’ve learned about an aspect of the United States Railroad Administration (USRA) I was not aware of. In addition to the typical railroad officers, the Southern had a “Federal Manager” that acted as an intermediary between the railroad management and the USRA. The correspondence shows decisions about which USRA “allocations” had been requested, to accept them and then how to pay for them were made by some combination of the three.
One answered a long-standing question of mine about why the Southern had so few USRA design box cars. In a full page letter to the USRA, Southern explained that its standard 30-ton, 36ft box cars were more suitable to its freight traffic than the 40ft, 40-T USRA standard cars (designed by the NYC?) that had been allocated. Costs, parts made far from Southern territory and other items were mentioned in the reasons to reject the allocation (apparently not requested by the railroad).
Of the multiple examples where cars were allocated but not accepted/wanted by the Southern, the letter sent to Southern President Fairfax Harrison (attached) Nov 14, 1918 resulted in the memo sent by “FH” the next day. Southern managements always resented any attempt at “Government Control” but forcing the railroad to spend money they did not think justifiable was too much.
Ike
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Re: "Tyranical" USRA in 1918
Kenneth Montero
Wasn't USRA's John Skelton Williams a major figure in the competitor Seaboard Air Line Railroad? If so, that would have added fuel to the fire.
Ken Montero
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"Tyranical" USRA in 1918
George Eichelberger
While scanning multiple WWI era files in the SRHA archives, I’ve learned about an aspect of the United States Railroad Administration (USRA) I was not aware of. In addition to the typical railroad officers, the Southern had a “Federal Manager” that acted as an intermediary between the railroad management and the USRA. The correspondence shows decisions about which USRA “allocations” had been requested, to accept them and then how to pay for them were made by some combination of the three.
One answered a long-standing question of mine about why the Southern had so few USRA design box cars. In a full page letter to the USRA, Southern explained that its standard 30-ton, 36ft box cars were more suitable to its freight traffic than the 40ft, 40-T USRA standard cars (designed by the NYC?) that had been allocated. Costs, parts made far from Southern territory and other items were mentioned in the reasons to reject the allocation (apparently not requested by the railroad). Of the multiple examples where cars were allocated but not accepted/wanted by the Southern, the letter sent to Southern President Fairfax Harrison (attached) Nov 14, 1918 resulted in the memo sent by “FH” the next day. Southern managements always resented any attempt at “Government Control” but forcing the railroad to spend money they did not think justifiable was too much. Ike
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Re: HOn3 D&RGW caboose
Scott H. Haycock
Schuyler,
Google 'D&RGW short caboose' and there is a picture gallery. Mostly models but some prototype photos. It looks like F&C makes a resin kit of this model; they may have decals.
Scott Haycock
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Re: HOn3 D&RGW caboose (amended)
Bryian Sones
Larrabee, Sorry I overlooked your question about the couplers. I don't use Kadee at all. I use Sergent couplers on all models but the Kadee hon3 coupler should be #714 Bryian Sones Union Pacific Prototype Modeler Murrieta, CA
On Monday, April 12, 2021, 03:29:27 PM PDT, Bryian Sones via groups.io <bryian.sones@...> wrote:
The caboose side widow configuration is typical of the D&RGW short caboose. The single window side would have the stove with a bunk next to it. The model Mark found on brasstrains, is correctly modeled 0578 (all spotting features I mentioned seem to match the prototype pics) The trucks on the model have been replaced. They are Blackstone Caboose trucks. The dual brake cylinder I believe is an error. It should have a brake cylinder and air reservoir on the other side. Bryian Sones Union Pacific Prototype Modeler Murrieta, CA
On Monday, April 12, 2021, 02:21:53 PM PDT, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
Mark! Thanks for this find, that is the caboose, EXCEPT that the trucks are different. The one in the linked images has outside hanger brakes, where as the trucks for the subject model do not. I suspect that the trucks on the brasstrains.com guide page are replacements. I can tell you that disassembling the caboose this morning convinced me that it has never been disassembled before.
It also appears that the person who painted that caboose removed the brass cast scale coupler pocket in favor of a Kadee box.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Rossiter
There is an entry on the BrassTrains.com website that looks a lot like your model that indicates it was imported by PFM in 1964. The detail on your model looks to be about that vintage. Although this site claims the builder was Katsumi, I believe United may have utilized a number of builders to produce models under their name. PFM was a heavy user of United.
Mark Rossiter
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Re: PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train
bill stanton
would express reefers have been intermingled with ordinary reefers in the icing process or kept separate?
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 4:22 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train
A string of express reefers might be taken over to the ice deck, if it happened to be nearby. But single cars, and cars in trains
without time to wait for movement to an ice deck, would be iced right at the depot, using an elevating truck body to get ice up to the ice hatches. Photos of all this in the PFE book.
Tony Thompson
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Re: PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train
Tony Thompson
A string of express reefers might be taken over to the ice deck, if it happened to be nearby. But single cars, and cars in trains without time to wait for movement to an ice deck, would be iced right at the depot, using an elevating truck body to get ice up to the ice hatches. Photos of all this in the PFE book. Tony Thompson
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Re: PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train
bill stanton
please elaborate further...i'm simply trying to figure out how to handle them operationally on my railroad (modeling colton and LA circa 1947)
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 11:16 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train bill stanton wrote:
Yes. By which I mean, it depended.
Tony Thompson
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Re: N&W gon loaded with coal in 1938 Kentucky
James Brewer
N&W 95762 would be N&W Class GU, #93600 - 97599; cars built in 1925 at a cost of $1,714.82; cars in series 95600 - 965599 were built by Pressed Steel Car Co. See Norfolk and Western Coal Cars, 1881 - 1998, by Andrew Dow, page 93.
Jim Brewer
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Re: HOn3 D&RGW caboose (amended)
Bryian Sones
The caboose side widow configuration is typical of the D&RGW short caboose. The single window side would have the stove with a bunk next to it. The model Mark found on brasstrains, is correctly modeled 0578 (all spotting features I mentioned seem to match the prototype pics) The trucks on the model have been replaced. They are Blackstone Caboose trucks. The dual brake cylinder I believe is an error. It should have a brake cylinder and air reservoir on the other side. Bryian Sones Union Pacific Prototype Modeler Murrieta, CA
On Monday, April 12, 2021, 02:21:53 PM PDT, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
Mark! Thanks for this find, that is the caboose, EXCEPT that the trucks are different. The one in the linked images has outside hanger brakes, where as the trucks for the subject model do not. I suspect that the trucks on the brasstrains.com guide page are replacements. I can tell you that disassembling the caboose this morning convinced me that it has never been disassembled before.
It also appears that the person who painted that caboose removed the brass cast scale coupler pocket in favor of a Kadee box.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Rossiter
There is an entry on the BrassTrains.com website that looks a lot like your model that indicates it was imported by PFM in 1964. The detail on your model looks to be about that vintage. Although this site claims the builder was Katsumi, I believe United may have utilized a number of builders to produce models under their name. PFM was a heavy user of United.
Mark Rossiter
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Re: PRR X29B and X29D
Thanks everyone. Got everything I need (including an undec Branchline box with 7 doors, Tom Haag's PK decals and a full bottle of Polly Scale Italian Camo Brown). Since Intermountain no longer sells spare parts, I'll have to rebuild the underframe from the Branchline part, so I'll pass on the offer for more info on that build, but thanks anyway, that would have been the way to go.
Mike Clements Wakefield, MA nyc65.wordpress.com
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Re: HOn3 D&RGW caboose
Schuyler Larrabee
Thanks, Dan, that caboose appears to have a rounded corner on the carbody itself, which makes it different that the model I have to paint. I appreciate your sending along this image.
Geez, this morning I didn’t know one D&RGW narrow gauge caboose from another and now I’m picking out spotting features. Is this a great list to learn from, or not!?
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 6:10 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose
Can’t help with the exact color issue, but we have D&RGW shorty caboose no.0526 here at the Huckleberry Railroad in Flint, MI. Sadly for your question, the cabose has been repainted several times over its lifetime, and was recenty totally restored (frame-up) here at HRR just a few years ago. It’s now about 80% new wood, though we reused what we could if it remained structurally sound.
Dan Mitchell ==========
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Re: HOn3 D&RGW caboose
Can’t help with the exact color issue, but we have D&RGW shorty caboose no.0526 here at the Huckleberry Railroad in Flint, MI. Sadly for your question, the cabose has been repainted several times over its lifetime, and was recenty totally restored (frame-up) here at HRR just a few years ago. It’s now about 80% new wood, though we reused what we could if it remained structurally sound.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Dan Mitchell ==========
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Image of UP 81682 gon Denver CO 1910s?1920?
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi List Members,
Image of UP 81682 gon Denver CO 1910s?1920?
More info at the link below...
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
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IC 40ft ds boxcar and a CB&Q composite gon at Franklin Cnty Coal Co Illinois 1939
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi List Members,
Image of an IC 40ft ds boxcar and a CB&Q composite gon at Franklin Cnty
Coal Co Illinois 1939
More details can be found at the link below...
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
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Re: HOn3 D&RGW caboose (amended)
Schuyler Larrabee
Mark! Thanks for this find, that is the caboose, EXCEPT that the trucks are different. The one in the linked images has outside hanger brakes, where as the trucks for the subject model do not. I suspect that the trucks on the brasstrains.com guide page are replacements. I can tell you that disassembling the caboose this morning convinced me that it has never been disassembled before.
It also appears that the person who painted that caboose removed the brass cast scale coupler pocket in favor of a Kadee box.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Rossiter
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 5:06 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose (amended)
There is an entry on the BrassTrains.com website that looks a lot like your model that indicates it was imported by PFM in 1964. The detail on your model looks to be about that vintage. Although this site claims the builder was Katsumi, I believe United may have utilized a number of builders to produce models under their name. PFM was a heavy user of United.
Mark Rossiter
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Re: HOn3 D&RGW caboose
Schuyler Larrabee
From Brian Sones:
1) Car Ends -There is a rounded version and a Square (flush end) Square ends - carbody 2) The bolster ends. -There is a Square and Rounded end None visible on the model 3) Copula windows - Double window, cross braces and none None 4) Copula window awnings - Double, single or none Single 5) Copula Square or Angled sides Square 6) steps- straight or angled sides,. Straight 7) ladders Below roof straight or curved. Above roof curved. Below roof, curved at top
Incidentally the model has two brake cylinders (and no other underbody detailing, and has brass scale coupler pockets, leading to the question of how to affix a Kadee coupler (which I know the owner will want).
And as Gary mentioned, there are two windows on the non-smokebox side (conversely, one window on the smokestack side).
So, Brian, does that put this model in a particular number series? Thank you very much for this list of spotting features.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bryian Sones via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 4:38 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose
Add me to the list of Star Brand being a good paint and not an Acrylic. It is great on brass or plastic.
I model U.P. and D&RGW narrow gauge in Ho. I am not saying I'm an expert on the D&RGW short caboose at all but... I did do some research to build a few of them I built 5 of them from PSC kits and I have two brass ones
There are a bunch of variations of the short caboose so you really shouldn't decal it without doing some research if you want it correct. spotting things to look for are:
1) Car Ends -There is a rounded version and a Square (flush end) 2) The bolster ends. -There is a Square and Rounded end 3) Copula windows - Double window, cross braces and none 4) Copula window awnings - Double, single or none 5) Copula Square or Angled sides 6) steps- straight or angled sides,. 7) ladders Below roof straight or curved. Above roof curved.
A good reference book is Narrow gauge pictorial volume V . "Cabooses of The D&RGW".
Decals, I use San Juan Decals or Thin Film
Bryian Sones Union Pacific Prototype Modeler Murrieta, CA
On Monday, April 12, 2021, 12:26:46 PM PDT, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:
The PFE 1963 catalogue (8th Edition) shows two windows on the side on the smoke stack side. The same caboose with the dual windows on the smokestack side is shown in the 7th Edition catalogue. The 9th edition catalogue shows two windows on the non-smoke stack side.
Gary Laakso
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Schuyler,
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composite gons in 1949 at Commonwealth Edison Chicago area
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi List Members,
A nice trio of composite gons in 1949 at a Commonwealth Edison Chicago
area coal fired power plant. I am not an expert, but they look like other IC
composite gons I have seen.
I like the coal storage pile in the background.
Also, what is the piece of rolling stock up against the bumping post and
coupled to the boxcar?
More info here, including inscription on back of image...
Enjoy!
Claus Schlund
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Re: HOn3 D&RGW caboose (amended)
Mark Rossiter
There is an entry on the BrassTrains.com website that looks a lot like your model that indicates it was imported by PFM in 1964. The detail on your model looks to be about that vintage. Although this site claims the builder was Katsumi, I believe United may have utilized a number of builders to produce models under their name. PFM was a heavy user of United.
Mark Rossiter
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Re: HOn3 D&RGW caboose
Schuyler Larrabee
Thanks, Gary, that ties it down pretty well, I’d say.
Still, strikes me as odd that there is not any label on the box.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 4:03 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HOn3 D&RGW caboose
The PFM catalogue pictures show truss rods and two trucks on the caboose. The 9th Edition does not have a reference to the date of its issuance but likely 1965-66.
Gary Laakso
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
That helps, Gary. What year is the 9th edition?
In response to Todd, the label (yes, on the bottom there was something over it) doesn’t say PFM, it simply says United Scale Models And at the bottom Tokyo Japan
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
The PFE 1963 catalogue (8th Edition) shows two windows on the side on the smoke stack side. The same caboose with the dual windows on the smokestack side is shown in the 7th Edition catalogue. The 9th edition catalogue shows two windows on the non-smoke stack side.
Gary Laakso
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Schuyler,
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