Date   

Re: Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

jace6315
 

One of the main reasons the railroads hauled carfloats like this in New York harbor was so that they could minimize shifting at the float bridges. The tug stays in the middle while the barges split the rack by removing the line connecting the two barges at their bows. A good crew could essentially land two barges at once, a big factor considering the volume of freight moving by carfloats across New York harbor at one point, not to mention the high costs of the railroad marine operations.

Jim Matthews

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 4:30 PM, SamClarke via groups.io <samc@...> wrote:

Not being a barge expert, since I was born and raised in Nevada, I can see the reason of the “V” as the tug is actually pushing against sides of the barges sort of wedged in. The lashing is meant to keep the barges from spliting from the force of the tug and not the towing force. I imagine that the tug has more control pushing the “V” rather than pushing (pulling) on the lashing if the barges were lashed more symmetrically.

 

As I mentioned earlier the trucks look like 1954/55 Internations thus dating the photo to about that time.

 

 

 


 

Sam Clarke

R&D / Tech Advisor / Artist

Kadee Quality Products Co.

mail@...

541-826-3883

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of kevinhlafferty
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 4:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

 

As noted previously by both Dennis and Bruce there are indeed aft lines securing the tug to the barges; the port aft line is visible in this view taken moments before. Also visible in this view is a considerable amount of slack in the fore barge to barge line which would indicate that the lashing isn’t quite as secure as it might be. I would guess the aft lines are working overtime at this moment. Not having experience in large nautical equipment I have to ask is there some advantage to a V configuration of the barges vs. a more symmetric lash up?

 

https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agsnorth/id/11580/rec/2

 

Kevin Lafferty

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 2:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

 

Having watched barges and tows on the Mississippi River, I know there are winches on the barge, used to tighten all lines. There are also large binders used by the crew to tighten lines that are not directly tied to the tow. This keeps the barges and tow (what the tugs are called on the river) as a rigid single unit. Note the two barges are tied together at the nose, with no visible slack.

 

 

Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

 

Interesting. The tug is churning along under power towards the bottom of the picture. Yet the cables off the tug's bow up to the barges have no slack. How does that work?

On 26/04/2021 9:58 a.m., Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

A photo from the University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee Libraries:

https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agsnorth/id/11939/rec/60

Click on the arrows and scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

-- 
Colin Riley
20-2500 Florence Lake Road
Victoria BC V9B 4H2




Re: Photo: Unloading Grain

mel perry
 

out of curiosity, has it ever been mentioned how many people were
required and how long it took to
manually unload a boxcar loaded with
grain?
thanks
mel perry

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 1:46 PM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

Good photo showing the use of a “power” shovel. Note the pulley on the lower edge of the photo and the man holding the cable used to pull the shovel, via an overhead winch or motor. There should be two pulley’s, one near each edge of the door, allowing for the “shovel” to be pulled from either end of the car as the inside man is unloading. The third man in the bibs is holding a sampling cup, used to take a sample of the grain for testing purposes.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 12:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Grain

 

Photo: Unloading Grain

A photo from the University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee Libraries:

https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agsnorth/id/6696/rec/31

Click on the arrows and scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

As in other recent photos, hard manual labor. The man in center possibly there to sample the grain.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Unloading Grain

Douglas Harding
 

Good photo showing the use of a “power” shovel. Note the pulley on the lower edge of the photo and the man holding the cable used to pull the shovel, via an overhead winch or motor. There should be two pulley’s, one near each edge of the door, allowing for the “shovel” to be pulled from either end of the car as the inside man is unloading. The third man in the bibs is holding a sampling cup, used to take a sample of the grain for testing purposes.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 12:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Grain

 

Photo: Unloading Grain

A photo from the University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee Libraries:

https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agsnorth/id/6696/rec/31

Click on the arrows and scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

As in other recent photos, hard manual labor. The man in center possibly there to sample the grain.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

SamClarke
 

Not being a barge expert, since I was born and raised in Nevada, I can see the reason of the “V” as the tug is actually pushing against sides of the barges sort of wedged in. The lashing is meant to keep the barges from spliting from the force of the tug and not the towing force. I imagine that the tug has more control pushing the “V” rather than pushing (pulling) on the lashing if the barges were lashed more symmetrically.

 

As I mentioned earlier the trucks look like 1954/55 Internations thus dating the photo to about that time.

 

 

 

 

Sam Clarke

R&D / Tech Advisor / Artist

Kadee Quality Products Co.

mail@...

541-826-3883

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of kevinhlafferty
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 4:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

 

As noted previously by both Dennis and Bruce there are indeed aft lines securing the tug to the barges; the port aft line is visible in this view taken moments before. Also visible in this view is a considerable amount of slack in the fore barge to barge line which would indicate that the lashing isn’t quite as secure as it might be. I would guess the aft lines are working overtime at this moment. Not having experience in large nautical equipment I have to ask is there some advantage to a V configuration of the barges vs. a more symmetric lash up?

 

https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agsnorth/id/11580/rec/2

 

Kevin Lafferty

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 2:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

 

Having watched barges and tows on the Mississippi River, I know there are winches on the barge, used to tighten all lines. There are also large binders used by the crew to tighten lines that are not directly tied to the tow. This keeps the barges and tow (what the tugs are called on the river) as a rigid single unit. Note the two barges are tied together at the nose, with no visible slack.

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of cptracks
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 12:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

 

Interesting. The tug is churning along under power towards the bottom of the picture. Yet the cables off the tug's bow up to the barges have no slack. How does that work?

On 26/04/2021 9:58 a.m., Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

A photo from the University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee Libraries:

https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agsnorth/id/11939/rec/60

Click on the arrows and scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

-- 
Colin Riley
20-2500 Florence Lake Road
Victoria BC V9B 4H2


Photo: Wilson Reefer 9272

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Wilson Reefer 9272

A photo from the Penney Vanderbilt And KC Jones website:

https://penneyandkc.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/maybrook_yard_005.jpg

According to the January 1955 Equipment Register, part of series 8101-9605.

This is the only series of Wilson cars listed in January 1955 Equipment Register.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Unloading Grain

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Unloading Grain

A photo from the University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee Libraries:

https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agsnorth/id/6696/rec/31

Click on the arrows and scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

As in other recent photos, hard manual labor. The man in center possibly there to sample the grain.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Oregon Fish & Game Commission Hatchery Transport Car

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Oregon Fish & Game Commission Hatchery Transport Car

Photo courtesy of Taylor Rush on the Facebook Early Rails Group.

https://tinyurl.com/yn9kh4f8

His comment:

“An interior shot of the Oregon Fish & Game Commission hatchery transport car "Rainbow" loaded with trout fingerlings. This is a copy print of the original which is in the collection of the Oregon Historical Society.”

Narrative from the site written by Kathy Tucker:

“This promotional photograph, taken by Angelus Studio, shows the inside of a railroad car used by the Oregon Fish and Game Commission to transport hatchery-raised rainbow trout to rivers, streams, and lakes throughout the state. The car, nicknamed Rainbow, could hold up to 177 cans containing young trout. Air tubes connected to the cans delivered oxygen to the fish. Angelus Studio was a commercial photography business that operated in Portland in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries.

Beginning in the early 1910s, state hatcheries produced millions of rainbow trout fry. They used mules, horses, hikers, trains, and cars to deliver the popular game fish to new and remote locations. Pacific Northwest rainbow trout were also introduced to waterways in many foreign countries. In exchange, non-natives such as the brook trout were introduced in Oregon. In later years, the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife used airplanes and helicopters to drop trout fry into waterways.

Rainbow trout, closely related to Pacific Salmon, are native to Oregon and the western United States. However, they have competed with native fish in waterways where they were introduced and some scientists believe that hatchery-bred rainbow trout have cross-bred with native cutthroat trout in Oregon’s rivers and streams.”

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


Re: Photo: Unloading Can Stock (1948)

Andy Laurent
 

I'm also a little late to the party on can loading in boxcars.  The Ahnapee & Western in Wisconsin had customers that received cans in bulk.  Evangeline Milk Company produced condensed milk for First National Stores in Boston, Mass.  In our era, they received carloads of baby vent-hole cans from Weirton, WV that were loaded in bulk rows and unloaded with the 'rakes' that Doug mentioned. The cans rolled down a 'rollway gravity conveyor' into a lift that brought them up into the can loft where they would be added to the canning line and fed by gravity.  See attached image of unloading.

The cherry canneries in Sturgeon Bay received cans differently.  Theirs were loaded in bags in the car, and unloaded mostly via team tracks into trucks for delivery to the offline canning plants.  Evangeline Milk would sometimes receive bagged cans also, and they later sourced from can plants nearer than WV.

See some sample waybills from the mid-60s here:
http://www.greenbayroute.com/1962ahwwaybills2.htm#03 
http://www.greenbayroute.com/1962ahwwaybills2.htm#15 
http://www.greenbayroute.com/1962ahwwaybills2.htm#18 

Regards,
Andy L.
Madison, WI


Re: Photo: Unloading Can Stock (1948)

Doug Paasch
 

I’m coming late to the party here, but just another tidbit.  At one time they did actually stack the cans loose in rows inside the box cars.  I don’t know when that practice may have ended but the photo Bob shows is dated 1948 and the cans must be stacked loose to use the conveyor like in the photo.  They unloaded them by using “rake” to take them off the stacked rows and lay them in the conveyor like in the photo.  The lids probably were shipped in boxes though as I can see no way of loading them “loose.”  Here is a Library or Congress photo of unloading cans with a rake dated 1939.  https://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/fsa.8b37180/  Perhaps the method of shipment depended on the size and shape of the cans.  I can see where narrow, deep cans could be bulk loaded without boxes, but I would think wide, shallow cans would be a disaster if loaded bulk without being in boxes.  So maybe vegetable and fruit cans were bulk loaded and fish cans in boxes?

 

Doug Paasch

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2021 8:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Can Stock (1948)

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi all,
  When I was in H.S. I worked in a salmon cannery.  Our cans all came to us
fully made up (no lid) in large cardboard boxes of perhaps 1000 cans at a
time.  The box was the size of a pallet on the bottom and about 4 feet tall.
I worked in the warehouse crew and the cans came in box cars, were
off loaded by driving a fork lift into the car and picking them up.  They
were stacked 2 'cases' tall in the box car with the pallet already under
them and strapped to the pallet with two 3/4" wide metal straps.  From
the warehouse they went up to the 2nd story (lifted up by fork lift) and
were stored in "the can loft" which was over the canning lines.  The
box straps were cut off and the top opened up and they were put into
a sort of hopper/feeder that the cans rolled out of and down to the
canning machines by gravity.  The canning machines 'took' one can
at a time from the gravity line and put it in front of a ram where the
salmon was rammed into it (after having been cut to length).  The
ram went back and forth ... bang, bang, bang ... several times a
minute (perhaps once a second) and every time it took a can the
cans in the gravity line would advance.
  The lids were shipped in the same box cars with the cans and
were in boxes of several hundred at a time - perhaps one box of
lids held the number needed for one box of empty cans?  The 
lids were also put on the cans by machine - between the canning
machine with the ram and the lidding machine was a line of 
workers (all women - then) that trimmed up the weight of the
can to a perfect pound/half pound/quarter pound by adding a
bit or two of salmon.
  After the lids were put on and sealed the cans were stacked on
steel racks (think 'trays') and the trays were stacked up on a
small wheeled dolly (think RR wheels) that was pushed by hand
to the retort where it was cooked under steam pressure for a
long time (3 or 4 hours).  Then it was brought out and sent to
the labeling line, put into cases, stacked on pallets ... and 
shipped out by rail to 'the world' (usually went East out of
Everett, Wa.).

  I also worked in another salmon cannery.  This one was in Hawk
Inlet, Alaska and it had a similar operation - the differences being
that the cans came in by ship and the entire cannery was powered
by a boiler driving a stationary steam engine driving an overhead
belt power system that had 12" (?) bents running around wheels
of approximately 18" in diameter.  You can see an overhead belt
powered system if you look for pictures of the Sierra Railroad's
roundhouse in Sonora, Ca.

  One of the symmetries of shipping to be filled cans in those
cardboard boxes is that the number of car loads of cases was
essentially identical to the number of car loads of outbound
product.

  I can't imagine the kind of operation in this picture lasted very
long before it was replaced by the boxes of cans style.  The "rails"
the guy is setting up in that picture are similar to how the cans in
the canneries moved from the can loft to the canning machines.
                                                                                  - Jim


Re: Historically appropriate weathering...

Jack Burgess
 

Otto…

 

This is a great time to visit/hike the Merced River area. This is from a few years ago:

 

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of ottokroutil via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 5:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Historically appropriate weathering...

 


Lol, Jack, you wisely chose to model the YV before the railroad was abandoned not too many years later😁 I’ve always admired your work, and the YV, but never more than during our very recent trip to Yosemite when my wife and I had a chance to hike the abandoned ROW, now a trail in full spring bloom, along the Merced River. What a lovely, modelable prototype, which you captured really well, and I consider myself fortunate to have been able to visit both your railroad (some years ago) Inline image

 

Inline image

 

and the real place.


Re: Chicago Lakefront railyards

Dennis Storzek
 

Interesting. I thought there was an icing platform down there somewhere, but if you look at the bottom of that photo, just left of center, there is a string of reefers with their hatches open and a couple of men on the roof of one close to the near end of the string, and what looks to be a portable ice hoist... in 1926, no less. Still a lot of horses in use at that time.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Historically appropriate weathering...

ottokroutil
 


Lol, Jack, you wisely chose to model the YV before the railroad was abandoned not too many years later😁 I’ve always admired your work, and the YV, but never more than during our very recent trip to Yosemite when my wife and I had a chance to hike the abandoned ROW, now a trail in full spring bloom, along the Merced River. What a lovely, modelable prototype, which you captured really well, and I consider myself fortunate to have been able to visit both your railroad (some years ago) Inline image

Inline image

and the real place.


Re: Photo: Seaboard Boxcar 24145

William Dale
 

Seems a Reading XMu class box has made an appearance.

William Dale 


Re: C&IM fans are gonna like this 1948-1959

Nelson Moyer
 

Resin Car Works offers 3D printed Klasing brake wheels. Check out their web site.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 6:51 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&IM fans are gonna like this 1948-1959

 


I also note the Klasing brake wheel. I wish Kadee had a reason to do those. :-)

Tim O'Connor

 


Re: C&IM fans are gonna like this 1948-1959

Tim O'Connor
 


I also note the Klasing brake wheel. I wish Kadee had a reason to do those. :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 4/18/2021 4:44 PM, Claus Schlund wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
I forgot to mention, I especially like the pole load on the flat car in the background along with "C&IM 6149 twin offset side hopper". One of the poles looks to have dangerously shifted while en route.
 
 
Claus Schlund


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Chicago Lakefront railyards

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Why yes, I’d be pleased to take that fire escape on the building to the right.  8^O !1

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 7:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Chicago Lakefront railyards

 


Nice web site! Here's a 1926 photo that's not included on the web page.


On 4/26/2021 9:06 AM, Ray Hutchison wrote:

Chicago lakefront railyards - lots of information and photos

http://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2016/12/ic-freight-houses-along-michigan-avenue.html


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

kevinhlafferty
 

As noted previously by both Dennis and Bruce there are indeed aft lines securing the tug to the barges; the port aft line is visible in this view taken moments before. Also visible in this view is a considerable amount of slack in the fore barge to barge line which would indicate that the lashing isn’t quite as secure as it might be. I would guess the aft lines are working overtime at this moment. Not having experience in large nautical equipment I have to ask is there some advantage to a V configuration of the barges vs. a more symmetric lash up?

 

https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agsnorth/id/11580/rec/2

 

Kevin Lafferty

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 2:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

 

Having watched barges and tows on the Mississippi River, I know there are winches on the barge, used to tighten all lines. There are also large binders used by the crew to tighten lines that are not directly tied to the tow. This keeps the barges and tow (what the tugs are called on the river) as a rigid single unit. Note the two barges are tied together at the nose, with no visible slack.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of cptracks
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 12:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

 

Interesting. The tug is churning along under power towards the bottom of the picture. Yet the cables off the tug's bow up to the barges have no slack. How does that work?

On 26/04/2021 9:58 a.m., Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Photo: Freight Cars On Barges

A photo from the University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee Libraries:

https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digital/collection/agsnorth/id/11939/rec/60

Click on the arrows and scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

-- 
Colin Riley
20-2500 Florence Lake Road
Victoria BC V9B 4H2


Re: B&O Timesaver Boccars

Tim O'Connor
 

On 4/26/2021 9:09 AM, Allen Cain wrote:
Would the B&O Timesave Boxcars have travelled off the B&O line or were these in captive service on the B&O?

And thank you to all who answered the Sentinel boxcar question.


Yes, they went off line. Here is a one car Union Pacific transfer job in Kansas City in 1953.



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Chicago Lakefront railyards

Tim O'Connor
 


Nice web site! Here's a 1926 photo that's not included on the web page.


On 4/26/2021 9:06 AM, Ray Hutchison wrote:
Chicago lakefront railyards - lots of information and photos

http://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2016/12/ic-freight-houses-along-michigan-avenue.html

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Historically appropriate weathering...

Jack Burgess
 

Thanks Johannes…

 

I have read (I think) that equipment was much dirtier after the war because of deferred maintenance during the war. I wisely chose to model the YV before the war started!

 

Jack

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 12:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Historically appropriate weathering...

 

Hello Jack,

 

I don't model the 30s but appreciated your video nonetheless - many thanks. Top-notch as is expected from you.

One is always well advised not to "overdo" weathering - but most all rolling stock at photos from after WWII was way dirtier than the YV trains you are showing, at least from

what I have seen.

On the other hand I usually don't like the looks of extremely weathered engines - I just like them much more though fully painted (that means all the wheel faces too) but

clean (especially those with white-edged running boards and wheel rims) - with only few exceptions, like a GN O-8, C&NW H-1, D&RGW L-131, some Santa Fe, some UP, and

others. This correlates with the obvious great shape of the YV engines shown at your photos. :-)

 

Thanks again and many greetings

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1954

 

Gesendet: Sonntag, 25. April 2021 um 21:34 Uhr
Von: "Jack Burgess" <jack@...>
An: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Historically appropriate weathering...

If you are modeling the 1930s or so like I am (August 1939) you might appreciate a new YouTube video that just came out on weathering…not how to but more what is appropriate. It is at

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNdxETAkvtk

 

Jack Burgess

www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

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