Date   

Re: Oil Paints

smokeandsteam@...
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:

Is there a reason to prefer oils to acrylics? I would have thought the
opposite.<<

Ron

The reason I like oils is that they are so slow drying. This give me time to
blend edges of colours and attack them with palette knives rags, sponges, wet
brushes, dry brushes, paper towels and, yes, even Q- tips before they dry.
Acrylics dry much, much quicker in minutes rather than days so that you are
much more limited in some techniques.

The thickness of oils can be useful for adding textures as well. Some rust
spots have quite a distinct texture that can easily be simulated with the end
of a stiff brush worked into the paint.

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Willows, CA


Re: RI car

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Sunshine has a very nice kit for this series of cars, #55.2 is the one I
built.

Steve Hile

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clark Propst" <cepropst@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RI car


Oops...I forgot to give the number series and the page number!
161000-161349, bottom of
page 36.

Clark Propst wrote:

I was looking through the Morning Sun Rock Island freight car book (I
ignore passenger stuff) and found a interesting 40 ft. DD car that just
happens to have a couple of entries in the Landmesser M&StL set list.
Any ideas on how to build the car? I'm thinking an Intermountain Mod. 37
car with two 8' doors and a new sill. What would be good for decals?
Thanks,
CWPropst


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Re: RI car

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Oops...I forgot to give the number series and the page number! 161000-161349, bottom of
page 36.

Clark Propst wrote:

I was looking through the Morning Sun Rock Island freight car book (I
ignore passenger stuff) and found a interesting 40 ft. DD car that just
happens to have a couple of entries in the Landmesser M&StL set list.
Any ideas on how to build the car? I'm thinking an Intermountain Mod. 37
car with two 8' doors and a new sill. What would be good for decals?
Thanks,
CWPropst


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RI car

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I was looking through the Morning Sun Rock Island freight car book (I
ignore passenger stuff) and found a interesting 40 ft. DD car that just
happens to have a couple of entries in the Landmesser M&StL set list.
Any ideas on how to build the car? I'm thinking an Intermountain Mod. 37
car with two 8' doors and a new sill. What would be good for decals?
Thanks,
CWPropst


Re: other freight car lists

ljack70117@...
 

Someone asked for a modern freight car list
MFCL-subscribe@... is one of them
Thank you
Larry Jackman


Re: NERS Dominion cars.

Don Valentine
 

Quoting Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>:

Stafford, thanks for your input on these cars again. My interest is
piqued
by the following comments in your e-mail:

(per Don Valentine) The style of roof has yet to be determined.
If I get my way these will be the as-delivered wood-sheathed roofs.

That said, I am now aware some cars were rebuilt with CNR's favorite
Hutchins roofs. That is, Al Welch has been working on me on the
existence/frequency of this feature and has provided a photo of one
car and mentioned yet another to me. While I'm not yet convinced this
was a very common retrofit as my ca 1984/85 research said "there were
none", this is now a live issue. These days I have way more photos
to trudge through to revisit the question properly. Thus this won't
be quick.
This raises a some questions - partly model - partly prototype.

When you say you want "wood-sheathed roofs", do you mean metal-clad
wood-sheathed roofs, or just the bare boards? - (I'm struggling to find
the
right terms here, so bear with me).

As I understand the CPR cars from looking at photos (not that many, I
grant
you) by the mid thirties, I'd estimate that at least 75% of cars I've
observed had metal sheathed roofs. (Of course, your e-mail refers to
the
CNR cars, which I don't know much about - they may be different). I'm
not
knowledgeable enough to say if these metal sheathed roofs were a
proprietary
roof or a company shops effort - so do not know if it was Hutchins, or
something else. (And most photos in my collection aren't clear enough
to
judge in any event.)

When I've purchased Westerfield and Kaslo versions of the car, I've
tended
to buy mostly the metal clad roof cars. I thought that a good balance
for
late 30's to late 40's. But again, the CNR cars could be different.

Or maybe your point is that wood roofs are easier to modify to metal,
than
from metal back to wood?

Or maybe the Life Like Canada cars are metal roofs and you want the
option
of having someone else do the wood?

I hope I haven't lost you with this meandering question. But I'd like
to
get an understanding, first, of the roof options available on the
prototype
for both the CNR and CPR cars, and also some understanding of why your
research leans you to favor wood sheathed. (Knowing that you model a
later
period than do I).

Let's try to clear a couple of things up here to assist Rod and others,
too. The car for which the roof type has not been settled on yet is the
second style of CNR car we plan, the CPR fleet being more homogeneous than
that of the CNR in post war years.

The fact that boards show on the outside of the roof does not necessarily
mean that the car does not have a metal roof. This is due to the fact that
some early metal roofs had wood sheathing ON TOP of the metal, strange as
all that sounds. The CNR and CPR each used outside metal roofs from a
different suppliers, primarily Hutchins for the CNR and primarily Chicago
(who sold the Murphy style roof) for the CPR. The INSIDE metal roofs used
by the two may well have been the same. Since they were hidden by the board
sheathing it doesn't make any difference as the look of the board sheathing
seems to be quite standard and doesn't seem to have been effected by the
use of an INSIDE metal roof underneath some of them.

This being said, my strong inclination has been to use a wood sheathed
roof for the second style of CNR cars. Such a roof could be utilized for
both straight wood sheathed roofs or wood sheathed roofs with an INSIDE
metal roof. It was decided early on with this project to mold the cars
having the floor included with the sides and ends, rather than the roof, for
the reason that it provided greater flexibility with the roof. We could offer
all cars with a choice of several roofs.....and earn the wrath of every hobby
dealer in North America at least. It is better, however, to offer each style
of car with only one roof but make roofs available separately so that modelers
can change roofs if they wish to do so. That is what will be done and that is
why I've been leaning so heavily toward the wood sheathed roof for the second
style of CNR car. Then, with three different roofs available separately, if
ever all modelers are happy with something, everyone should be happy.

So, does that make everbody happy early on a Sunday morning?

Take care, Don Valentine


Re: Kits vs. RTR Models

Steven Delibert <stevdel@...>
 

You might be amazed (I'm amazed, and I'm a left-wing nut!) at just who
is a large part of the up-coming generation of modelers, and just how good
and serious they are.
And having started this discussion, if we want to take it further, let's
continue it off-list, since Mr. Interlocutor is (rightly) pretty serious
about keeping the on-list list on track for steam era freight cars.
Steve Delibert

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Joppich" <gjopp@...>

Not sure Detroit cars would sell in Detroit right now! <VBG>

Glenn Joppich
Detroit, MI
(Die hard Wing Nut )


Re: Oil Paints

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

I have worked successfully with acrylics, and can't make oils work worth a
damn.

SGL

----- Original Message -----
From: "TC" <tculotta@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Oil Paints


Rob Kirkham wrote:

Is there a reason to prefer oils to acrylics? I would have thought
the
opposite.
Ron:

My personal experience (and this is not by any means right) is I find
that oils (and other solvent based paints) tend to flow better for me.
I also like the thickness of the tube based oils and the way they react
with mineral spirits. However, there are plenty of other modelers that
make acrylics work for weathering. I think it's all about what works
for you and what you are comfortable with. I say that the most
important thing is to do it. One will never build up a basis of
experience if he doesn't try.

Regards,
Ted Culotta







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Re: NERS Standard Car's Dominion Cars

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

Hey, Don,

From: "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...>

Suggested:
As a compromise,
a conversion kit would be fine.
which is a damn fine idea, but then he goes on to say:

But make sure the car gets to the market in a form that will sell - with
whatever brakes that takes. I want well over a hundred of them.
Sounds like someone to listen to . . .

SGL


address

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I have a friend that models beyond the era of this group. I think he
would enjoy the other freight car group. Could someone please give me
their address.
Thanks,
Clark Propst


Re: Southern #23300-23486 Boxcar Doors and Tack Boards #23300-23486

Allen Cain <allencain@...>
 

Ed and Jerry,

THANK YOU!

This was EXACTLY what I was looking for. I had noticed the incorrect number
of panels on the door and had been looking for replacements. Now that I
have your input, I can comfortably use the Superior doors and consider them
as replacements on the cars which came with the six panel doors.

Ed, any info which you would like to share on the 5855 series would also be
appreciated.

Allen Cain
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Canadian cars

Earl Tuson
 

Don Valentine said,

The mills which you have overlooked in this scenario...
I overlooked no mills, as my post was strictly limited to the traffic interchanged onto the Suncook Valley in Nov and Dec 1952. The other mills you listed did not send any traffic to the line at that time.

Earl Tuson


Re: Life Like announces Fowler cars ?

ThisIsR@...
 

Can anyone tell me about the NC&StL cars that Don Valentine mentioned?
BTW
I don't know if Joe Oates is on this list, but I'm excited about the future
prospect of
"watermelon" cars. Thanks.

Richard Stallworth


Re: FC address

CBarkan@...
 

freightcars@...

In a message dated 5/3/03 9:02:24 PM, cepropst@... writes:

<< I have a friend that models beyond the era of this group. I think he
would enjoy the other freight car group. Could someone please give me
their address.
Thanks,
Clark Propst
>>


P2K orange Staley tank cars

Andy Cich <ajc5150@...>
 

Can anyone tell me if this paint scheme is appropriate for 1953?




Thanks,

Andy Cich


Re: Oil Paints

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Norm Larkin notes:


I think Schuyler Larrabee mentioned this when this thread was discussed
before, but Bill Darnaby's articles on weathering in the April and May
1979
issues of RMC provide all the info you need to weather with artist's oils.
Yes. I would also note that Mike Rose...who Ned Carey references...has done
a weathering clinic at Prototype Rails three times at Cocoa Beach,
FL...couldn't resist getting that in. Mike prefers oils because, for one
thing, they are very forgiving. If he gets something wrong...out comes the
mineral spirits...even a significant period of time later. I believe Mike
does all of his oil work with hand brushes.

Mike Brock


Re: Southern #23300-23486 Boxcar Doors and Tack Boards #23300-23486

switchengines <jrs060@...>
 

I had done some checking of my own several years ago on the
movement of the placard boards from the higher position on the ends
and doors of new house cars to the lower position, and found that the
mandated change date was January 1, 1954. This I have found to be
correct on all builders photos I have seen to date.

Jerry Stewart

--- In STMFC@..., Ron Hildebrand <SteamFreight@h...>
wrote:
At 01:11 PM 5/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
Folks,

I am posting this question for the second time to some lists.
Unfortunately
I did not get any responses to the first request.

Can anyone offer a photo reference or advice on the correct door
for these
cars in 1955?

The car numbers are:

23005
23168
23252
23399

And finally, what is the correct location for the door and end
tack boards
for 1955? Should they be in the high or low position?
Allen ,

I posted this response to the second part of your question when you
originally posed it on the SouthernModeler group in late April:
__________________________________________________________
>Guy Wilber replied to a similar (but generic) question on the
Steam
>Era Freight Cars group a couple of months ago. In essence, before
>1953, placard boards were to be "not less" than 4'-6" from the
floor
>of a box car. Effective in March '54, that rule was changed to
lower
>placard boards (the larger boards) and tack boards (the smaller
>boards)to be located so that the bottoms of the boards were no
more
>than 2'-6" above the car floor. New cars reflected that change
right
>away, and older cars had the changes applied as they were shopped
for
>Class 1 repairs.
>I guess if you can find out when the cars you are modeling were
>shopped, you can pretty well guess if they had their placard
holders
>high or low at your target date.

>Hope this helps.
_________________________________________________________-

If you are looking for the location of the tack boards on each
*specific*
car on a certain date after the rule went into effect, then I guess
this
isn't much help, but you didn't note that after I posted the above.

Ron Hildebrand


Re: Oil Paints

Norman+Laraine Larkin <lono@...>
 

I think Schuyler Larrabee mentioned this when this thread was discussed
before, but Bill Darnaby's articles on weathering in the April and May 1979
issues of RMC provide all the info you need to weather with artist's oils.
There are other excellent articles on the subject of weathering, but if you
can get your hands on the Darnaby articles, it will be well worth it.
Regards,
Norm Larkin

----- Original Message -----
From: Ned Carey <westernmd@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Oil Paints


Is there a reason to prefer oils to acrylics? I would have thought the
opposite.
Rob Kirkham
Oils make great washes. They are thinner and more consistent as a wash. I
find with acrylics sometimes the pigment coagulates and doesn't spread as
evenly as oils.

Oils out of the tube are thick. For example on a hopper side panel they
could be stippled on to make a rust patch that has a three dimensional
quality to it. (I have not tried this yet)

I forget which color but there is a dark oil (burnt umber?) that has a
great
old rust color. When streaked down with a soft brush and thinner, it
leaves
a lighter "rust washed downwards" color below the darker rust patch. It's
very realistic. Mike Rose and Mike Budde have both done some excellent
articles on freight car weathering using this technique.

Since oils dry much more slowly (Al Welch asks; if ever?) they are better
for dry brushing. Great for truck sideframes to bring out the detail.

Acrylics on the other hand dry much more quickly allowing one to move on
to
other steps without waiting. I don't think I would even bother trying
spraying oils.

In summation both are valuable for modeling depending on what effect you
want to achieve.

Ned




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Re: Southern #23300-23486 Boxcar Doors and Tack Boards #23300-23486

Ron Hildebrand <SteamFreight@...>
 

At 01:11 PM 5/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
Folks,

I am posting this question for the second time to some lists. Unfortunately
I did not get any responses to the first request.

Can anyone offer a photo reference or advice on the correct door for these
cars in 1955?

The car numbers are:

23005
23168
23252
23399

And finally, what is the correct location for the door and end tack boards
for 1955? Should they be in the high or low position?
Allen ,

I posted this response to the second part of your question when you originally posed it on the SouthernModeler group in late April:
__________________________________________________________
Guy Wilber replied to a similar (but generic) question on the Steam
Era Freight Cars group a couple of months ago. In essence, before
1953, placard boards were to be "not less" than 4'-6" from the floor
of a box car. Effective in March '54, that rule was changed to lower
placard boards (the larger boards) and tack boards (the smaller
boards)to be located so that the bottoms of the boards were no more
than 2'-6" above the car floor. New cars reflected that change right
away, and older cars had the changes applied as they were shopped for
Class 1 repairs.
I guess if you can find out when the cars you are modeling were
shopped, you can pretty well guess if they had their placard holders
high or low at your target date.
Hope this helps.
_________________________________________________________-

If you are looking for the location of the tack boards on each *specific* car on a certain date after the rule went into effect, then I guess this isn't much help, but you didn't note that after I posted the above.

Ron Hildebrand


Southern #23300-23486 Boxcar Doors and Tack Boards #23300-23486

Allen Cain <allencain@...>
 

Folks,
 
I am posting this question for the second time to some lists. Unfortunately
I did not get any responses to the first request. Hopefully, someone can
help me soon as I am now at the point of adding the doors.

I am building four of the very fine Branchline Blueprint Southern Boxcars
(kit #1514) which represent the #23300-23486 series, built 8-47 by
Pullman-Standard (lot 5855). 
 
These kits as received from Branchline came with a random selection of
Youngstown and Superior 8” doors and I am trying to determine the correct
door for 1955.  As usual, Branchline is being GREAT about offering
information and replacement parts.  I can not say enough good things about
their customer service.
 
Bill Schneider of Branchline furnished this info:  “Further to our door
discussion, my roster shows that Southern #23300-23486, built 8-47 by PS
(lot 5855) were all equipped with 8' 7 Panel Superior doors. I have a photo
in the Southern Color Guide of one of these cars in 1963 (albeit
re-numbered), another of one in Middletown NY on the O&W in 1948, so I think
its safe to say they ran that way in 1955.”
 
The photo that Bill sent me appears to be a builder’s photo and has the
Superior door.  If a builder’s photo, this would represent the car in 1947. 
He also has evidence that at least some of these cars retained the Superior
doors as late as 1963.  But, did all?
 
Can anyone offer a photo reference or advice on the correct door for these
cars in 1955?
 
The car numbers are:
 
23005
23168
23252
23399

And finally, what is the correct location for the door and end tack boards
for 1955? Should they be in the high or low position?
 
Thanks,
 
Allen Cain
Murfreesboro, TN