Date   

Re: CB&Q XM-32 box cars

Clark Propst
 

I made some height adjustments. Here's a new photo.
Clark


Photo: Shipping Bells In A Gondola (Circa 1920s)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Shipping Bells In A Gondola (Circa 1920s)

Photo from the Indiana Historical Society:

https://images.indianahistory.org/digital/collection/dc012/id/15242/rec/2

Click on the arrows and scroll to enlarge. Only fair quality.

Description:

“Men examine a bell for the Scottish Rite Cathedral which have come in on a freight car. The Scottish Rite Cathedral was designed by Indianapolis architect and Scottish Rite member George F. Schreiber and was constructed from 1927 to 1929. A central feature to the Cathedral is its 212-foot bell tower which holds a 54-bell carillon, a gift of Mr. and Mrs. Arthur R. Baxter for the enjoyment of the city. Still home to the Valley of Indianapolis, the Scottish Rite Cathedral has become a beloved landmark in Indianapolis and host to many private and public events.”

Notice the ‘Safety First” signs.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Hauser-Stander Tank Cars (1926)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Hauser-Stander Tank Cars (1926)

Photo from the Indiana Historical Society:

https://images.indianahistory.org/digital/collection/p16797coll21/id/94/rec/1

Click on the arrows and scroll to enlarge.

Description:

“This image shows five identical tanker cars outside of the Cincinnati Car Company building.”

First two cars are MYSX (Myles Salt Co.) 603 & 604.

Myles Salt Company:

https://archives.datapages.com/data/gcags/data/068/068001/517_gcags680517.htm

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Lincoln Oil Tank Car FTX 10073 (Circa 1925)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Lincoln Oil Tank Car FTX 10073 (Circa 1925)

Photo from the Indiana Historical Society:

https://images.indianahistory.org/digital/collection/P0129/id/1557/rec/21

Click on the arrows and scroll to enlarge.

FTX reporting marks possibly Federal Tank Line.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: CB&Q XM-32 box cars

Clark Propst
 

Leave it to the Hawkeye's on this group to pick out the height discrepancy  ;  )) These are RTR cars that the previous owner ran, so I never paid any attention. Was more interested in correcting the 'spotting features'. I did replace the trucks under both cars. I will have to address this issue.

All in all it's a good learning tool.

Clark Propst


AE Staley and Wabash RR Photos 1930s-1950s

Chris Barkan
 

Some interesting photos of freight cars serving A.E. Staley company and Wabash freight cars and facilities in Decatur, IL 1930s through 1950s. 

https://herald-review.com/gallery/history/17-photos-of-staley-railroads-and-railyards-from-the-herald-review-archives/collection_3eda01b3-1f41-556b-91b8-fc1ef9af3c65.html#1

And, for 50 bonus points, spot the phoney phreight car, and for 50 more, name its manufacturer! :-)
--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL


Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] C&EI Gondola

Bruce Smith
 

Garth,


Good call on the engine class! The locomotive is class N2sa, USRA 2-10-2, built circa 1919, and “Pennsified” circa 1924. As for the date, unfortunately the loco can only confirm that “early 1930s” is reasonable. The “condensed” (short, lengthwise) barely visible PENNSYLVANIA indicates prior to 1940 (ish) and the lack of classification lights on the boiler indicates a date after they were dropped from freight engines in 1925.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Friday, May 21, 2021 at 6:39 AM
To: "RealSTMFC@groups.io" <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] C&EI Gondola

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Friends,

 

While this photo features a PRR 2-10-2 (an N2?), here is a nearly complete, if somewhat grainy, view of a C&EI gondola. I think the number is 94358 from series 92000-9449. There were still seven of these cars in service in 1958.

 

The car is similar to Caswell gondolas in series 91000-91999, which according to Richard Hendrickson (RMJ, March 2000), the C&EI modernized with steel sides and ends during WWII. He didn't say if the rebuilt cars came from the 92000 series, but that seems a reasonable assumption. 

 

Also note the NYC boxcar immediately behind the tender. 

 

This photo is in my collection, and is undated or otherwise identified, but I suggest it is early 1930s.

 

Additional comments or clarification would be welcome.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆 


Re: C&EI Gondola

lrkdbn
 

The NYC/Michigan Central box car is a "1910 standard" car;-,one of 16000 such built for the NYCL in that year. The fishbelly underframe with 10" side sills was one of three types of underframes used on these cars and appears in the 1912 CBD.( the others were a twin center sill Bettendorf design and a rather odd ACF design with 2 heavy truss rods and V shaped plate crossbearer/needle beams.Westerfield's ACF photo CD has pictures of these) This car has been refitted with the NYC standard wood door with 3 stiffeners and a wood door stop, used on most all wood cars after about 1917..NYCSHS has drawing N-37037 of this door in their collection. The second car in the train also appears to be a NYCL car-either a 1910 car with the Bettendorf underframe mentioned above or a "1912" car with yet another design of fishbelly underframe having only light angle iron side sills.( also see the 1912 CBD) of which 15965 were built. The number of cars built in those years boggles the mind.
Larry King


C&EI Gondola

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Friends,

While this photo features a PRR 2-10-2 (an N2?), here is a nearly complete, if somewhat grainy, view of a C&EI gondola. I think the number is 94358 from series 92000-9449. There were still seven of these cars in service in 1958.

The car is similar to Caswell gondolas in series 91000-91999, which according to Richard Hendrickson (RMJ, March 2000), the C&EI modernized with steel sides and ends during WWII. He didn't say if the rebuilt cars came from the 92000 series, but that seems a reasonable assumption. 

Also note the NYC boxcar immediately behind the tender. 

This photo is in my collection, and is undated or otherwise identified, but I suggest it is early 1930s.

Additional comments or clarification would be welcome.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆 


Re: Need a photo of a CGW AC&F boxcar #22000-25798

wahsatch
 

Eric,

In my 12/1928, this is one of the 2nd series of boxcars on the CGW - inside 36 ft long, 8-6 wide, & 7-6 hi - series from 12502 to 14500 - 30T - 16 cars. There is a bunch more info if somone needs to build a model.

I'm beginning to think my '28 ORER is a goldmine. On the CGW car it gave dims to 1/2" or even 7/8" which is dropped after the crash of 1929.

Now have to trace the lettering to make "O" decals - possibly compare to already made...

Thanks, Eric! Oh, if anyone wants the plans, I exorcised from the 1913 - about 2.5 meg pdf file - prints out nicely @ FedEx @ 11x17.

-=- Bob Colquitt

Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 4:13 PM
From: "Eric Hansmann" <eric@hansmanns.org>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Need a photo of a CGW AC&F boxcar #22000-25798

Those are great examples of how lettering changed over time. Not just the roadname and emblem, but also the data.



I played around with both in Photoshop. The image of CGW 23140 is early. The car is not compliant with Safety Act Amendment equipment. Freight cars weren’t upgraded overnight, but this is an indication the car was built before 1912 at least. It’s quite a few years earlier than the 1937 file name.



In the bottom left corner, we can barely see the remains of the AIR BRAKE stencil. The Master Car Builders dropped the recommendation for that stencil in 1909. It appears this car still wears a builder badge stencil above the right truck. After repainting, these usually weren’t applied again. The weigh data presentation follows an earlier style that would be modified a few more times by the MCB, ARA, and AAR before 1930. The weigh date is fuzzy but slightly bolder than the rest of the lettering, indicating a fairly recent reweigh. After sharpening the image and adjusting levels and contrast, it seems like 12 are the last digits on the weigh stencil.



CGW 23564 has a more modern appearance. The weigh date here looks like 7-40. Note the reporting marks are on the left side of the car with the weigh data.



Attached is an image of CGW 12618 from the NPS Steamtown collection. It seems to have a 4-18 weigh stencil. While not a car in a series requested by Bob, it is another look at pre-1920 car lettering on an older car. It seems to have a build date of 1898 stenciled above the left truck. This car has been upgraded with grabs to meet the Safety Appliance Act amendment requirements.





Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN







From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Need a photo of a CGW AC&F boxcar #22000-25798



Here are two photos I have of 23000 series CGW boxcars. Very different P/L schemes.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org <http://www.iowacentralrr.org>



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> > On Behalf Of wahsatch
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Need a photo of a CGW AC&F boxcar #22000-25798



While ridding my duplicate & corrupted backup files on new to me Lenovo 17" Ideapad, I came across the 1913 Car Builders. Wandered thru the pages & came across a CGW wood superstructure box with a fabricated double beam steel underframe. ACF built it w/ 50T capacity.



Ck'd my Westerfield 1935 & my paper 12/1938 ORER - not enough data to identify the numbers. Remembered my 12/1928 ORER - there it was - the 21000 series [3 cars] & 22000 thru 25798 series [1690] - capacity dropped to 40T. Ck'd my digital copies of the RR Gazette, CGW first placed an order for 1500 cars in mid-1909, then a few months later increased the order by 500 cars w/ AC&F..



By 12/1938, the 21000 were gone & the 22000 were down to 242. Their reefer fleet dropped from 443 to 6 in the same time period.



Anyone have a photo of this car? Need truck type & lettering for late 20s/early 30s.



Thanks!



-=- Bob Colquitt









Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Reading Yard - Philadelphia, PA

Dave Parker
 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 03:30 PM, ed_mines wrote:
I lived in Rochester, NY for much of the '70s.

Yes, it doesn't snow every day and much of time roads show pavement but every season huge piles of snow accumulate in places like supermarket parking lots and don't melt until the spring.
Interesting, except that on average Rochester (and Buffalo) gets over four times the annual snowfall that Philadelphia does:

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/snowfall-totals-city/

Might I suggest that we try and get back to freight cars?
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: I suspect this gon existed in our time period. Ex-ERIE? ex-DL&W?

ed_mines
 

Erie -> freight equipment-> gondolas -> 10074,10325,10575

Erie -> Erie freight car diagram book

these were the prototype for the P2K gondola



Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Reading Yard - Philadelphia, PA

ed_mines
 

I lived in Rochester, NY for much of the '70s.

Yes, it doesn't snow every day and much of time roads show pavement but every season huge piles of snow accumulate in places like supermarket parking lots and don't melt until the spring.

Ed Mines

I


Re: Need a photo of a CGW AC&F boxcar #22000-25798

Eric Hansmann
 

Those are great examples of how  lettering changed over time. Not just the roadname and emblem, but also the data.

 

I played around with both in Photoshop. The image of CGW 23140 is early. The car is not compliant with Safety Act Amendment equipment. Freight cars weren’t upgraded overnight, but this is an indication the car was built before 1912 at least. It’s quite a few years earlier than the 1937 file name.

 

In the bottom left corner, we can barely see the remains of the AIR BRAKE stencil. The Master Car Builders dropped the recommendation for that stencil in 1909. It appears this car still wears a builder badge stencil above the right truck. After repainting, these usually weren’t applied again. The weigh data presentation follows an earlier style that would be modified a few more times by the MCB, ARA, and AAR before 1930. The weigh date is fuzzy but slightly bolder than the rest of the lettering, indicating a fairly recent reweigh. After sharpening the image and adjusting levels and contrast, it seems like 12 are the last digits on the weigh stencil.

 

CGW 23564 has a more modern appearance. The weigh date here looks like 7-40. Note the reporting marks are on the left side of the car with the weigh data.

 

Attached is an image of CGW 12618 from the NPS Steamtown collection. It seems to have a 4-18 weigh stencil. While not a car in a series requested by Bob, it is another look at pre-1920 car lettering on an older car. It seems to have a build date of 1898 stenciled above the left truck. This car has been upgraded with grabs to meet the Safety Appliance Act amendment requirements.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Need a photo of a CGW AC&F boxcar #22000-25798

 

Here are two photos I have of 23000 series CGW boxcars. Very different P/L schemes.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of wahsatch
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Need a photo of a CGW AC&F boxcar #22000-25798

 

While ridding my duplicate & corrupted backup files on new to me Lenovo 17" Ideapad, I came across the 1913 Car Builders. Wandered thru the pages & came across a CGW wood superstructure box with a fabricated double beam steel underframe. ACF built it w/ 50T capacity.

 

Ck'd my Westerfield 1935 & my paper 12/1938 ORER - not enough data to identify the numbers. Remembered my 12/1928 ORER - there it was - the 21000 series [3 cars] & 22000 thru 25798 series [1690] - capacity dropped to 40T. Ck'd my digital copies of the RR Gazette, CGW first placed an order for 1500 cars in mid-1909, then a few months later increased the order by 500 cars w/ AC&F..

 

By 12/1938, the 21000 were gone & the 22000 were down to 242. Their reefer fleet dropped from 443 to 6 in the same time period.

 

Anyone have a photo of this car? Need truck type & lettering for late 20s/early 30s.

 

Thanks!

 

-=- Bob Colquitt


Re: Need a photo of a CGW AC&F boxcar #22000-25798

Douglas Harding
 

Bob, they are not very big files, so they may not be quality prints. I just printed the 23140 on 11x17, it is a little pixilated but you can certainly get your lettering placements. But the small lettering is not readable.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Need a photo of a CGW AC&F boxcar #22000-25798

wahsatch
 

Thanks Doug! Will take the files down to FedEx Office & blow them up to11x17. Used to be a program where I could import or scan a photo & outline the lettering on a different layer. May be a lettering alphabet which is close in "O".

Thanks again.

-=- Bob

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 9:34 PM
From: "Douglas Harding" <iowacentralrr@gmail.com>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Need a photo of a CGW AC&F boxcar #22000-25798

Here are two photos I have of 23000 series CGW boxcars. Very different P/L schemes.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of wahsatch
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Need a photo of a CGW AC&F boxcar #22000-25798



While ridding my duplicate & corrupted backup files on new to me Lenovo 17" Ideapad, I came across the 1913 Car Builders. Wandered thru the pages & came across a CGW wood superstructure box with a fabricated double beam steel underframe. ACF built it w/ 50T capacity.



Ck'd my Westerfield 1935 & my paper 12/1938 ORER - not enough data to identify the numbers. Remembered my 12/1928 ORER - there it was - the 21000 series [3 cars] & 22000 thru 25798 series [1690] - capacity dropped to 40T. Ck'd my digital copies of the RR Gazette, CGW first placed an order for 1500 cars in mid-1909, then a few months later increased the order by 500 cars w/ AC&F..



By 12/1938, the 21000 were gone & the 22000 were down to 242. Their reefer fleet dropped from 443 to 6 in the same time period.



Anyone have a photo of this car? Need truck type & lettering for late 20s/early 30s.



Thanks!



-=- Bob Colquitt









Photo: Mystery Freight Cars (Circa 1900)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Mystery Freight Cars (Circa 1900)

Photo from the Wisconsin Historical Society:

https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM9760

Description:

“McCormick Reaper Works and wood shop stock yard as seen from across a canal. In the foreground is a rail yard with a small engine and rail cars. The factory was owned by the McCormick Harvesting Machine company before 1902. In 1902 it became the McCormick Works of the International Harvester Company. The factory was located at Blue Island and Western Avenues in the Chicago subdivision called Canalport.”

Can anyone identify these freight cars?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Reading Yard - Philadelphia, PA

Paul R Greenwald
 

I agree with Ralph. Having lived in SE Pennsylvania for 63 of my 76 years, we get snow, it melts. Snow coverage is intermittent, which is hiw I read what Bruce said. It may have snowed a week before the photo was taken,  and it melted.
--
Paul R Greenwald 
PRRT&HS #1802
NMRA #129229


Re: CB&Q XM-32 box cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Nelson

I was just looking at the height difference in the cars, which is quite noticeable! I agree with you
that if 17145 has R+3/4 ends then it's the Blueprint model which is the correct body. Either one of
the models is too high, or the other is too low.

Tim O'Connor



On 5/19/2021 8:57 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

Tim, the CB&Q XM-32B class cars in series 17000-18399 were built in 1950. See Mainline modeler March 1996, page 71. I’m not familiar with the Branchlne car body, and Clark didn’t post an end view, but these cars had ten panel sides, improved 4-3-1 Dreadnaught ends, diagonal panel roof with steel running board and improved Youngstown doors.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 5:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CB&Q XM-32 box cars

 


The 17415 is a 10-0 1937 model, but the prototype was a 10-6 postwar.


On 5/19/2021 11:51 AM, Clark Propst wrote:

I picked these two box cars up from a late friend’s collection. Both are RTR. This 'class' of box cars had a long run and many changes took place over time. I have the Q bulletin on these cars, but I, at least, don't think it was written with the modeler in mind.  With the help of Nelson Moyer I was able to more accurately portray these models. The 17ooo series is by Branchline Trains and only needed it’s trucks replaced. This car would be super new at the time I model. The 32ooo series is an Intermountain car, which because of it’s generic nature needed to have several detail parts replaced. For something different I weathered the model with tinted Dullcote and colored pencils. I’ll talk about these cars in more detail during the next HS2020 meet.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: I suspect this gon existed in our time period. Ex-ERIE? ex-DL&W?

William Dale
 

Most likely an ex Erie “Greenville” at 52’6”.

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