Date   

Re: NORTHERN PACIFIC WAR EMERGENCY BOXCARD-Gerry Glow

George Courtney
 

A bit off topic, but Mr. Glow appears to have cashed the checks of perhaps hundreds of modelers, myself included, and not been heard from again.  To stick to modeling, I personally would recommend dealing with other decal and model makers.  If this is too political for our hosts, I understand.

George Courtney


Sorry!

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


That message was mentioned for Rich Christie

Bill Pardie

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
Date: 5/24/21 4:31 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NORTHERN PACIFIC WAR EMERGENCY BOXCARD

Hi Rich:

Hope you are doing well..  Have you heard anything from Jerry Glow lately?  We worked on a project for a while and it finally came together.  I sent a check and followed up several weeks later even it had not been cashed.  He cashed it about a week later and said it would ship the following week.  This was over a month ago  and I sent an email hoping that it had not been lost in the mail. I did not receive a reply.  I'm concerned not for the loss of funds but hoping that he is OK.

Bill




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Rich C via groups.io" <rhcdmc@...>
Date: 3/13/21 5:03 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NORTHERN PACIFIC WAR EMERGENCY BOXCARD

Bill, Here is the info on the difference, from RPI

The Northern Pacific got War Emergency cars in '44, but these were only 7-panel box cars with a Howe truss, not the 9 panel Pratt truss of what I call a true "War Emergency" car Tim O'Connor said the NP got these in '44. Ted Culotta said that Pullman built series 28000-28749, which had black ends, and Pressed Steel built series 28750-28999. These had Superior doors and rectangular panel roofs with wood running boards Culotta also pointed out that these NP cars were the largest class of War Emergency cars on a single road, representing 1,000 cars.

Rich

On Saturday, 13 March 2021, 08:15:28 pm GMT-6, WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:



The NP 28000 series war emergency boxcars were seen with both black and box car red ends.  Was there any rhyme or reason as to which got what?

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Re: NORTHERN PACIFIC WAR EMERGENCY BOXCARD

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Hi Rich:

Hope you are doing well..  Have you heard anything from Jerry Glow lately?  We worked on a project for a while and it finally came together.  I sent a check and followed up several weeks later even it had not been cashed.  He cashed it about a week later and said it would ship the following week.  This was over a month ago  and I sent an email hoping that it had not been lost in the mail. I did not receive a reply.  I'm concerned not for the loss of funds but hoping that he is OK.

Bill




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Rich C via groups.io" <rhcdmc@...>
Date: 3/13/21 5:03 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NORTHERN PACIFIC WAR EMERGENCY BOXCARD

Bill, Here is the info on the difference, from RPI

The Northern Pacific got War Emergency cars in '44, but these were only 7-panel box cars with a Howe truss, not the 9 panel Pratt truss of what I call a true "War Emergency" car Tim O'Connor said the NP got these in '44. Ted Culotta said that Pullman built series 28000-28749, which had black ends, and Pressed Steel built series 28750-28999. These had Superior doors and rectangular panel roofs with wood running boards Culotta also pointed out that these NP cars were the largest class of War Emergency cars on a single road, representing 1,000 cars.

Rich

On Saturday, 13 March 2021, 08:15:28 pm GMT-6, WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:



The NP 28000 series war emergency boxcars were seen with both black and box car red ends.  Was there any rhyme or reason as to which got what?

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question

Nelson Moyer
 

I attached Gene Green’s paper to my last email to the resinfreight car builders io Group, so you can get it there or search the web for “Freight Car Underbody Detail.pdf”. Search “Modeling AB Brakes on Freight Cars.pdf” for Ted’s paper, which also covers KC brakes.

 

These papers should be in the files of the RealSTMC, resinfreightcarbuilders, plasticfreightcarbuilders, and proto-layouts io groups. If they aren’t, somebody needs to upload them.

 

As I said before, I leave transverse mounted air reservoirs to modelers of the PRR, ATSF, and perhaps other roads.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 7:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question

 

Santa Fe also had many cars with perpendicular air reservoirs.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of irv_thomae
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 12:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question

 

Nelson,
   Thanks for a very clear explanation!

   You've mentioned Ted Culotta's "treatise on freight car brakes" and Gene Greene's "paper on freight car brakes."   Can you remind us where to find them on line?

   (And then there are the railroads that mounted air reservoirs with their long axis perpendicular to the car centerline, such as CN and the T&P  Are there any consistent rules that apply to them?)

Thanks!


Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question

Steve SANDIFER
 

Santa Fe also had many cars with perpendicular air reservoirs.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of irv_thomae
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 12:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question

 

Nelson,
   Thanks for a very clear explanation!

   You've mentioned Ted Culotta's "treatise on freight car brakes" and Gene Greene's "paper on freight car brakes."   Can you remind us where to find them on line?

   (And then there are the railroads that mounted air reservoirs with their long axis perpendicular to the car centerline, such as CN and the T&P  Are there any consistent rules that apply to them?)

Thanks!


Re: Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)

Jeffrey Gray <bigsix@...>
 

Thank you, an interesting explaination.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
Date: 5/24/21 2:27 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:45 AM, Jeffrey Gray wrote:
On the Monon gondola. That end is interesting. I would think that a pattern like that for the press die would be expensive to make. And then on a Composite car too?
No more expensive than any of the Dreadnaught variations that came after. I suspect this was a Haskell & Barker proprietary design... All three orders of cars on which it was used were built by H&B, and when I was organizing H&B drawings at the Pullman Library, there were more detailed drawings of the pressing than was normal. I also suspect that the main design intent was patent avoidance. The Murphy patent claimed "tapered ribs" and had been upheld in court, thus driving both Van Dorn and Hutchins out of the car end business. This end has ribs, but they can hardly be said to be tapered.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:45 AM, Jeffrey Gray wrote:
On the Monon gondola. That end is interesting. I would think that a pattern like that for the press die would be expensive to make. And then on a Composite car too?
No more expensive than any of the Dreadnaught variations that came after. I suspect this was a Haskell & Barker proprietary design... All three orders of cars on which it was used were built by H&B, and when I was organizing H&B drawings at the Pullman Library, there were more detailed drawings of the pressing than was normal. I also suspect that the main design intent was patent avoidance. The Murphy patent claimed "tapered ribs" and had been upheld in court, thus driving both Van Dorn and Hutchins out of the car end business. This end has ribs, but they can hardly be said to be tapered.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Jeff and Friends,

Here is a similar end on a Sierra MW car. Note the difference though; this one does not spiral but instead has concentric ovals. I've also included a view of the very interesting brake wheel. Sorry this can't be sharper.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 11:45 AM Jeffrey Gray <bigsix@...> wrote:
On the Monon gondola. That end is interesting. I would think that a pattern like that for the press die would be expensive to make. And then on a Composite car too?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io>
Date: 5/22/21 11:05 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)

Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)

Photo from the Indiana Historical Society:

https://images.indianahistory.org/digital/collection/p16797coll35/id/1740/rec/48

Click on the arrows and scroll to enlarge.

While the main subject of this photo is the delivery of ice to a Monon train, notice the gondola with a spiral end discussed here before and a flat car with a possible granite or other stone load.

Another example of the spiral end:

http://monon.org/bygone_site/mines/CIL33149LittleBettyLinton-0001.jpg

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Mineral Range RR Flatcar 69 (Circa 1900)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Mineral Range RR Flatcar 69 (Circa 1900)

Photo from Michigan Technological University:

https://cchi.mtu.edu/copper-country-image-detail?duid=d708c913-d1dc-4d5f-98b9-751307c0b610&width=1242&height=732&nid=19339

Only fair quality.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Mineral Range RR Gondola 153 (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Mineral Range RR Gondola 153 (Undated)

Photo from Michigan Technological University:

https://cchi.mtu.edu/copper-country-image-detail?duid=88aa03aa-4bc8-409c-a7f1-6d9ee6e04005&width=1242&height=732&nid=21977

Load of “mass copper”, an industry term for native copper occurring in large masses.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Mineral Range RR Gondolas (1925)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Mineral Range RR Gondolas (1925)

Photo from Michigan Technological University:

https://cchi.mtu.edu/copper-country-image-detail?duid=afab82b9-5c37-4c3a-844c-999206d300bc&width=1242&height=732&nid=21768

Union Coal dock. Fair quality photo.

Wiki info on the Mineral Range Railroad:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Trains/ICC_valuations/Mineral_Range_Railroad

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question

irv_thomae
 

Nelson,
   Thanks for a very clear explanation!

   You've mentioned Ted Culotta's "treatise on freight car brakes" and Gene Greene's "paper on freight car brakes."   Can you remind us where to find them on line?

   (And then there are the railroads that mounted air reservoirs with their long axis perpendicular to the car centerline, such as CN and the T&P.  Are there any consistent rules that apply to them?)

Thanks!


Re: Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)

Jeffrey Gray <bigsix@...>
 

On the Monon gondola. That end is interesting. I would think that a pattern like that for the press die would be expensive to make. And then on a Composite car too?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Date: 5/22/21 11:05 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)

Photo: Gondola & Flat Car (Circa 1940s)

Photo from the Indiana Historical Society:

https://images.indianahistory.org/digital/collection/p16797coll35/id/1740/rec/48

Click on the arrows and scroll to enlarge.

While the main subject of this photo is the delivery of ice to a Monon train, notice the gondola with a spiral end discussed here before and a flat car with a possible granite or other stone load.

Another example of the spiral end:

http://monon.org/bygone_site/mines/CIL33149LittleBettyLinton-0001.jpg

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Linde "Boxcar"

Rich Yoder
 

Hi Bob and others.

Do you know if the photographer Jim Parker is still alive?

OR where might his collection of photographs be?

Sincerely,

Rich Yoder

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 12:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Linde "Boxcar"

 

And here are the SERX cars.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question

John Sykes III
 

Luckily, the Intermountain PFE brake details are so poorly cemented on, that I can easily pop them off and add brass wire for the correct arrangement.

-- John


Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question

Nelson Moyer
 

Athearn isn’t the only victim of misreading engineering drawings. I’ve encountered current models from two companies who shall remain nameless with erroneous underbody brake diagrams in their instructions. The best way to check instructions is to look at original engineering drawings, but lacking that, look at photo graphs of both sides of the car under construction whenever possible. I’ve adopted the dictum, trust but verify. Then there is the Intermountain PFE reefer brake disaster……….

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Sykes III via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 9:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question

 

Also, but not necessarily in your case, many builder diagrams show the brake system (and other underbody details) as though you are looking down, through the floor of the freight car, not looking up.  That is how all the early Athearn blue-box kits ended up with their brake systems on the wrong side of the underframe.

-- John

 


Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question

John Sykes III
 

Also, but not necessarily in your case, many builder diagrams show the brake system (and other underbody details) as though you are looking down, through the floor of the freight car, not looking up.  That is how all the early Athearn blue-box kits ended up with their brake systems on the wrong side of the underframe.

-- John


Re: AB Air Reservoir Orientation Question

Nelson Moyer
 

Since posting my AB air reservoir question, I've reread Gene Green's paper on freight car brakes. A study of the photos and diagrams in this paper suggest that the  AB air reservoir has an up and down side, with the 'fat' side hanging down from the floor mounts, and it is usually mounted on the opposite side of the the center sill from the brake cylinder with two lugs facing the B end (direction to which the brake cylinder points).

 

 

Applying that convention, when the air reservoir is mounted on the opposite side of the center sill from the brake cylinder, two lugs face the B end. When the air reservoir is mounted on the same side of the center sill as the brake cylinder, one lug faces the B end. Cars converted from KC to AB brakes frequently have the AB air reservoir on the same side of the center sill as the brake cylinder hence the FGE car has one lug facing the B end. I think that pretty well sums up the answer to my initial question.

Nelson Moyer


Re: AE Staley and Wabash RR Photos 1930s-1950s

Chris Barkan
 

BTW, the AE Staley building still stands in Decatur, although their corporate headquarters moved to Chicago a few years ago to the consternation of the Decatur town fathers.
--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL


Re: Photo: Erie Gondola With Large Wood Beam Load (1907)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Steve.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2021 3:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Erie Gondola With Large Wood Beam Load (1907)

 

The series Erie 52000-52999 was built by Standard Steel Car Company in 1904.

 

Keith Retterer has a builder’s photo of 52000 in his collection of SSC builder’s photo.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2021 1:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Erie Gondola With Large Wood Beam Load (1907)

 

List:

 

I was unaware of a 52000 series gon for the ERIE prior to this photo.  Looking at my 1916 and 1920 ORERs I find that this was one a class of (presumably) 1000 cars 52000-52999.  IL 40’ IW 9’-5 5/8” IH 4’-2”  Length OA 41’Height OA 7’-5” 1706 Cu Ft capy 100,000 lb.

 

In 1916 there were 906 cars left in the series; in 1920, 994.

 

Class HT, hopper bottoms as Bob noted.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2021 11:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Erie Gondola With Large Wood Beam Load (1907)

 

Photo: Erie Gondola With Large Wood Beam Load (1907)

Photo from the Indiana Historical Society:

https://images.indianahistory.org/digital/collection/DC002/id/189/rec/31

Click on the arrows and scroll to enlarge.

Description:       

“Open-topped freight cars loaded with wood at Talge Mahogany Co., with railroad tracks in the foreground.  Stacks of wood are in the background.”

Gondola appears to have hopper doors.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

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