Date   

Re: C&O twin hopper 21105 in WV (1914)

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 07:20 PM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:
 
 
I'm left wondering - what are the wheeled conveyances in front of the string of hoppers? There appear to be two of them...
They are horse drawn scapers... excavating machines.

Dennis Storzek


Re: W&LE wood coal gon at Beechwood Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, Monongalia County, WV 1907

Eric Hansmann
 

Here’s the full sentence from the site. 

Information with print includes "Electric Mining, Rope and Electric Haulage, Capacity 750 Tons". 

I think the capacity is for the mining, rope and haulage system not necessarily the tipple output. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jun 23, 2021, at 12:32 AM, benjamin <bheinley@...> wrote:

The verbiage with the picture said capacity 750 tons.  Is this the daily output of the mine? Weekly? Monthly?
Thanks for the photos!
Ben Heinley

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 8:21 AM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
W&LE wood coal gon at Beechwood Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, Monongalia County, W. Va 1907
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: C&O twin hopper 21105 in WV (1914)

Douglas Harding
 

They appear to be a variation of a scraper that could be dumped with a trip lever.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 9:20 PM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C&O twin hopper 21105 in WV (1914)

 

Hi List Members,

 

C&O twin hopper 21105 in WV (1914)

 

 

I'm left wondering - what are the wheeled conveyances in front of the string of hoppers? There appear to be two of them...

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund

 

 


Re: W&LE wood coal gon at Beechwood Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, Monongalia County, WV 1907

benjamin
 

The verbiage with the picture said capacity 750 tons.  Is this the daily output of the mine? Weekly? Monthly?
Thanks for the photos!
Ben Heinley

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 8:21 AM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
W&LE wood coal gon at Beechwood Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, Monongalia County, W. Va 1907
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


C&O 16717 (side dump) and 116697 (offset side) hoppers at Island Creek Coal Co WV (undated)

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi List Members,
 
C&O 16717 (side dump) and 116697 (offset side) hoppers at Island Creek Coal Co WV
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 


N&W steel gon at Pond Creek Coal Company WV (undated)

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi List Members,
 
N&W steel gon at Pond Creek Coal Company WV (undated)
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


C&O twin hopper 21105 in WV (1914)

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi List Members,
 
C&O twin hopper 21105 in WV (1914)
 
 
I'm left wondering - what are the wheeled conveyances in front of the string of hoppers? There appear to be two of them...
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 


Re: Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Dave Nelson
 

Ok, we’ve got an answer to the row of rivets up top… next question: What is with the front of the big guy’s pants???  Looks like his zipper runs to the top of his beer belly.  8-)

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 9:05 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

 

Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Photo from the Industrial History Blog:

https://tinyurl.com/wctpmnu9

SHPX 20504 has a longitudinal rivet seam along the top of the tank. What is the technical term for this type of construction?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Toledo & Ohio Central steel gon at a mine at Braxton WV (undated)

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi List Members,
 
A Toledo & Ohio Central (New York Central system) steel gon at a mine at Braxton WV
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 


Re: Photo: Wrecked Freight Cars (Undated)

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

This wreck picture has drawn comments from both the STMFC and EarlyRail groups so please excuse the dual post….

The CB&Q leased in late 1878, then purchased, ten National Steel Tube box cars built under the LaMothe patents.  They also built two cars under license that had railroad improvements…the ill-fated 8300 and 8301.  These cars had underframes and body structure framed with steel tubes and covered with iron sheet, primarily held together with cast and wrought connectors.   LaMothe and his successors had limited sales of cars over a period of approximately 30 years going back to before the Civil War.  While this is predates the STMFC era it is an interesting insight into the attitude of Master Mechanics on the early dawn of the steel car era.

The following is a transcription of a letter from Harry B. Stone (who would play a pivotal role later in the famous Burlington Strike), Superintendent of the Locomotive and Car Department, regarding  a car “in a badly demoralized condition””

CHICAGO, BURLINGTON & QUINCY RAILROAD.

 

Office Supt. Loco & Car Depts

 

Aurora Ill,  November 30th  1880

T.J. Potter Esq.

      Genl Mgr- Chicago

               

Dear Sir:     I now have at the Aurora Shops tubular car No. 8300, which was in the wreck at Rio, in a badly demoralized condition and which shows much more plainly than I have been able to explain heretofore, the disadvantages of its “spider web” construction.  The next car to it was one of our common wooden cars and which came out of the racket with comparatively small injuries.

   This car is in such bad shape that I am entirely at a loss to know how to repair it, and if left to my own devices should probably tear it down and put it into scrap; as however it is a patent car I would suggest that you notify the patentee, Mr. W. O. Cooke,  Nos. 13 & 15 Park Row, New York City, and ask him if he will not come out and advise with use in regard to its repair.  Before doing anything with the car I shall have a careful and thorough report made and also sketches showing the manner of failure.

                                                                                                                                               

Yours truly,

(sgd)    Harry B. Stone

 

(Car 8300 was eventually stripped and received a body with the same  28’ dimensions but with standard CB&Q wood body details. The other car built under license, 8301, in 1887 received a wood body which had standard CB&Q 34’ box car dimensions.)

 

The “common wooden” cars were easy to repair and the railroads were well equipped to handle them.  Until lumber in the sizes and species needed became difficult to source and expensive the railroads were reluctant to move to iron and steel cars and to convert the infrastructure to build and maintain them.

 

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 11:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Wrecked Freight Cars (Undated)

 

Very interesting observation, Dennis.  I was surprised at how well the wood-framed cars retained their structural integrity as a rectilinear box, though the corner of the metal roofed car suffered considerably.

 

But I was curious about the evidently dismembered car number 1776 in the upper left of the photo.  Cleanly chopped off, it appears, and where is the rest of that car?

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 12:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Wrecked Freight Cars (Undated)

 

On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:

http://digitalcollections.uwyo.edu/luna/servlet/detail/uwydbuwy~23~23~992579~208256?qvq=q:wreck&mi=123&trs=184

Coming in late here, but this photo is an excellent example of the problems with early steel roofs, and why they were so slow to be adopted. Looking at the wrecked cars in the pile, only one has a steel roof. The cars with the double board roofs are mostly intact, while the one steel roof is completely destroyed; all of the seams between panels have split open. Admittedly, the car has likely endured extreme racking, but wood framed house cars ( and the early steel framed cars with less than optimal stiffness in the roof structure) where known to rack in normal service, termed "weaving" in the trade press of the day. Because of this the sheets of the early steel roofs would loosen from the car, and leak. The initial solution to this problem was to add heavy metal clasps to the edge of the roof, the theory being that this allowed larger screws into the eave, to better hold the sheets in place. The car in the photo has these, two per panel. However, as the photo illustrates, this really was not effective because it didn't address the basic problem.

The next stage of improvement, about WWI, was the "flexible" or "pivoted" metal roof, examples from all three major roof vendors illustrated HERE.
This separated the metal panel from the roof eave with a slip joint, and provided wide wood battens to clamp down the edges of the sheets without restraining their lateral movement. The wood battens were then covered with wide metal seam caps designed to keep the water out of the joints.

The next stage of development, in the twenties, eliminated the wood sheathing and integrated the seam caps with the supporting carlines, while still providing the flexibility required. The Hutchins Dry Lading and Viking roofs are examples., The problem wasn't truely solved until the carbuilders and railroads decided to allow enough material in the roof structure to actually prevent weaving, with the flat riveted roofs as used on the X29 and early ARA steel cars, which were a precursor to the Murphy "Solid Steel" roof.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

mel perry
 

that looks likeba rivet overlay seam
;-)
mel perry

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 10:10 AM Philip Dove <philipdove22@...> wrote:
I think it's called flash or the moulding line. The builders should have filed it off, it is most careless and unrealistic😊

On Tue, 22 Jun 2021, 17:05 Bob Chaparro via groups.io, <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Photo from the Industrial History Blog:

https://tinyurl.com/wctpmnu9

SHPX 20504 has a longitudinal rivet seam along the top of the tank. What is the technical term for this type of construction?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends
Photo from the Industrial History Blog:
SHPX 20504 has a longitudinal rivet seam along the top of the tank. What is the technical term for this type of construction?

Three-course construction, if I understand your question. There are two top sheets and a bottom sheet, thus three rivet courses.

Tony Thompson




Re: Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

Steve and Barb Hile
 

The water weight in pounds stenciled under the platform seems to start with 4

 

 

This aligns with those stenciled on the BLI 6000 gallon tank cars.  The 11,000 gallon cars from Atlas and Kadee have that number at nearly 90,000 lbs.

 

So, if I were doing this, I would use the BLI model.  Then, all you need are decals.  :>)

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ben Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 11:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

 

Greetings,

I am attempting to ID a tank car partially visible in a photo from 12/31/1959 shot at Georgetown Junction on the B&O. I model the Georgetown Branch in a slightly earlier era but am very interested in the tank car, as there was a water filtration plant on the line which received chlorine and I would like to model this car if possible. My first question is what is the make/type/details of the prototype, and second, are(were) there any models available of this particular prototype?

Here is a detail shot:


Here is the source image from my Flickr page:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cpl_clegg/23844231798/in/album-72157661477078718/

As far as markings on the car, here is what I can make out:

WESTVACO CHL[ORINE]
FOOD MACHINERY & 
SOUTH CHARLES[TON, WV]

LEASED TO
WESTVACO CO...

OUTER CA? OF TANK
453? ? LBS

Any help would be much appreciated!

 -Ben

--
Ben Sullivan
Brookeville, MD


Re: Photo: Wrecked Freight Cars (Undated)

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 09:45 AM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

But I was curious about the evidently dismembered car number 1776 in the upper left of the photo.  Cleanly chopped off, it appears, and where is the rest of that car?

 

Schuyler


Behind the car in front of it. The body isn't completely broken, only the roof, and the men are standing on the load in the car.

Dennis Storzek

 


Re: Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Ed Hawkins
 



On Jun 22, 2021, at 11:05 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

SHPX 20504 has a longitudinal rivet seam along the top of the tank. What is the technical term for this type of construction?

Bob,
It’s referred to as a 3-course tank, meaning there are 3 longitudinal seams. I’m unaware of any specific technical term for the seam. This 3-course riveted tank design was very common from the 1920s to the mid-1940s for tanks of 6,000 to 10,000 gallon capacities.

SHPX 20504 was one of 54 ACF Type 27 tank cars in series 20496-20549 built ca. mid-1937 in lot 1702. ICC-103, 8,000 gallons nominal, 40-tons. Shippers’ Car Line used this series of cars for general service with either short or long-term leases. 

InterMountain offered HO and O-scale models of these cars of this general type, the latter tooling later went to Atlas.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Tim O'Connor
 


What do you suppose those tank cars are doing on the wharf? Fuel oil for the ships perhaps?

On 6/22/2021 12:05 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Photo from the Industrial History Blog:

https://tinyurl.com/wctpmnu9

SHPX 20504


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

Todd Sullivan
 

Ben, 

It is most likely an ICC 105W300 class tank car of approximately 11,000 gallons capacity.  Similar models in HO are made by Kadee and Atlas.  One other capacity is the 6,000 gallon model made by Broadway Limited.  Both are 'pressure' tank cars, as the chlorine was shipped under pressure as a liquid.  Other tank car experts are welcome to comment on and improve my answer.

PS - there were a number of chemical companies in the Charleston WV area.  I'm more familiar with the companies on the north (NYC) side of the Kanawha River than on the south (C&O) side.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Philip Dove
 

I think it's called flash or the moulding line. The builders should have filed it off, it is most careless and unrealistic😊


On Tue, 22 Jun 2021, 17:05 Bob Chaparro via groups.io, <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Photo from the Industrial History Blog:

https://tinyurl.com/wctpmnu9

SHPX 20504 has a longitudinal rivet seam along the top of the tank. What is the technical term for this type of construction?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Loads for stock cars

Bob Chaparro
 

Shipping Corn Cobs

I think some of you who grew up on farms way-back-when know what corn cobs could be used for once the Sears catalogue was exhausted.

But what about shipping corn cobs? For what use?

I found one explanation:

“Corn cobs were once viewed as an important biofuel feedstock early in U.S. history to heat houses, farm buildings, and small businesses. However, with the advent of combines, which left the cob in the field, the use of corn cobs as a biofuel declined dramatically. Corn cobs are used on a limited basis for industrial purposes in the United States for bedding, oil sorbents, polishing agents, and other uses.”

So at one time shipping corn cobs made economic sense.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

 

Greetings,

I am attempting to ID a tank car partially visible in a photo from 12/31/1959 shot at Georgetown Junction on the B&O. I model the Georgetown Branch in a slightly earlier era but am very interested in the tank car, as there was a water filtration plant on the line which received chlorine and I would like to model this car if possible. My first question is what is the make/type/details of the prototype, and second, are(were) there any models available of this particular prototype?

Here is a detail shot:


Here is the source image from my Flickr page:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cpl_clegg/23844231798/in/album-72157661477078718/

As far as markings on the car, here is what I can make out:

WESTVACO CHL[ORINE]
FOOD MACHINERY & 
SOUTH CHARLES[TON, WV]

LEASED TO
WESTVACO CO...

OUTER CA? OF TANK
453? ? LBS

Any help would be much appreciated!

 -Ben

--
Ben Sullivan
Brookeville, MD

9461 - 9480 of 194687