Date   

Re: NYC reblt gon

nyc3001 .
 

It would most likely have been red at the time. Some NYC hoppers, gondolas, and flatcars were black before 1941, but they were repainted to oxide red after that date.

-Phil


Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors

Jeffrey Gray <bigsix@...>
 

Yes, back to the question. Red fades and was a problem. But, B&O "Devils Red" maybe late 1930s and NKP post war I am pretty sure. PRR, NYC, et al, stayed with the more brown color (this is best way I know not to flame the fires of PRR folks, apology is extended).



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Betz <jimbetz@...>
Date: 7/4/21 3:16 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors

Ralph,
  In the Coast Guard we called zinc chromate "green death".  The drill was
Chip, Paint, and Soogey.  Chip off the old paint until you got down to bare
metal (using a chipping hammer), paint it (zinc chromate, red lead, and lastly
color), and soogey (keep it clean by scrubbing with a stiff brush and washing
the dirt and soap into the sea.  One of the primary tasks of anyone with a
Seaman's rank and even a few 3rd class Petty Officer's from time to time.
                                                                                        - Jim


Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors

Jerry Michels
 

Hi Jim, well to put in my comment, but for the MP not GN, the MP painted its cabooses 'caboose red' as did the Iron Mountain before the MP bought it in 1915.  So caboose red was an early paint .  We also have paper documents that say the IM used caboose red, At some time, probably the 1920s the railroad changed to 'boxcar red' which lasted until the 1970s when the MP went back to 'caboose red" but probably no the original 'caboose red' but more of a 'vermilion red.' There was a touch of orange in it. The story is complex some were freshly painted 'boxcar red' and some the newer 'vermillion red' and part of the story has to do with how the cabooses were repainted, and the fading of a brand of 'caboose red' to orange if it was washed with alkali rather than acid detergent. This led to the story that the MP painted cabooses orange,  They didn't, it was faded vermillion. The final color was an Imron Bright caboose red.  By the way, many years ago RMC had a misprint stating that the caboose they pictured was painted blue.  Never happened. If anyone wants more details on caboose colors on the MoPac, I wrote a book on them. Probably still available somewhere.

Jerry  Michels


Re: Car Builder’s Dictionaries

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 11:27 AM, Chris Barkan wrote:
Both the 1879 and the 1888 editions also name something called a "pull-iron" (item 58 in their list of terms) but I do not see it any of the diagrams.  I would be interested to learn what item on the car this refers to.
From the definition in the 1879 CBD I would suspect this later became the "roping staple".

Dennis Storzek


Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors

Jim Betz
 

Ralph,
  In the Coast Guard we called zinc chromate "green death".  The drill was
Chip, Paint, and Soogey.  Chip off the old paint until you got down to bare
metal (using a chipping hammer), paint it (zinc chromate, red lead, and lastly
color), and soogey (keep it clean by scrubbing with a stiff brush and washing
the dirt and soap into the sea.  One of the primary tasks of anyone with a
Seaman's rank and even a few 3rd class Petty Officer's from time to time.
                                                                                        - Jim


Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors

Jim Betz
 

  OK - we all agree that the paint called "red lead" wasn't very red.  Done.
But this thread has been entirely hijacked by those posting - correct information
that isn't exactly "on topic"  ... the OP wants to know "when were cabooses
first painted Red?".  Not 'red lead', not the earlier 'iron oxide' but the classic
red caboose.  Yes, the actual color varied from RR to RR - he's not interested
in that variation but rather wants some idea of when the use of Red paint for
cabeese was first used/became so common across all the RRs.
  And, if you know, when it was first used on the GN (because that is his
RR of primary interest).
  I suspect he may also like to know "why?" ... why was it adopted for
cabeese for so many RRs?  My -guess- about that is ... wait for it ... 
simply to improve visibility.

  Come on guys - someone has to know the answer.  Even if it is only for
their RR and not the GN.
                                                                                   - Jim


Re: Photo: NYC Gondola 501235 With Heavily Weathered Canisters

Tim O'Connor
 

On 7/4/2021 12:26 PM, schmuck804_99 via groups.io wrote:
Says Coalburg Ohio. That was a ex LS&MS yard that was turned into a scrap yard.(Midwest Steel and Alloy Scrap) Erie's lone 44 tonner was the shop switchers and the first GG1 "rivets" was scrapped there. It is all a field now.

Chris S.

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 11:01 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Red lead was extremely common in RR shops. But as noted, it was generally a primer and had an oxide red color. 
Not unless it has been adulterated with something. The red lead primer I'm familiar with has a bright orange color. The iron workers at the transit authority used it a lot for priming the overlapping surfaces of repairs on the elevated structure; priming both surfaces and bolting the parts up while the paint was still wet, back in the seventies when I was there.

Here's a color reference: https://colourlex.com/project/red-lead/

Dennis Storzek


Re: Car Builder’s Dictionaries

Kenneth Montero
 

It appears that sill steps and running boards are standard nomenclature defined by federal statute, whereas the same statute used both grab irons and handholds as standard nomenclature.
 
Can we agree at least to using the above as standard nomenclature?
 
Ken Montero
 

On 07/04/2021 2:27 PM Chris Barkan <cplbarkan@...> wrote:
 
 
Thanks for the correction on this point Dave. Throughout my industry career, I was taught that they were properly referred to as "hand holds", and never thought it necessary to check on this; however, now that I have I see that unlike the other terms we are discussing, "grab iron" and "hand hold" both date back at least as far as the 1888 Car-Builder's Dictionary https://library.si.edu/digital-library/book/carbuildersdict00forn (see pp 84 & 87, respectively) and if anything "grab iron" might be the more prominent term.  Figures 93-94 & 95-96 (illustrating an NYC&HR standard boxcar) only shows ladders on the end of the car but not the side.  The "grab iron/handhold" rungs of the end ladder are referred to as "ladder rounds".  There is a "roof grab iron" and two vertical "end grab irons" on the end, and a vertical "corner grab iron" on the side of the car above the sill step. However, Figures 97-101 illustrating a NYWS&B standard boxcar has a horizontal grab iron on the end of the side of the car above the sill step.  The "roof grab iron" on the latter is also differently shaped than on the NYC&HR car.  These inconsistencies were a safety hazard and formed part of the rational for Section 4 of the Safety Appliance Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Safety_Appliance_Act#1893_act (see summary below)

Section 4
Secure grab irons.  After July 1, 1895, unless Interstate Commerce Commission says otherwise, unlawful for RR company to use any car in interstate commerce that doesn't have secure grab irons or handholds in the   ends and sides of each car (more secure for men who couple and uncouple cars.)

This was further amended by Congress in 1910 (see Section 2) and especially Section 3 directing the ICC to establish standards for the "...number, dimensions, location, and manner of application of the appliances provided for by Section two..."   https://govtrackus.s3.amazonaws.com/legislink/pdf/stat/36/STATUTE-36-Pg298a.pdf

Interestingly, neither term appears in the original (1879) edition of the Car-Builder's Dictionary https://library.si.edu/digital-library/book/carbuildersdicti00mast for the simple reason that these items are largely absent from the boxcars that are illustrated (see pp 216-226).  The vertical grab iron on the side of the car is termed "corner handle" (item 102) and the horizontal handholds on the ends are referred to as "ladder-rounds" (item 59) and "ladder handle" (item 60).

Both the 1879 and the 1888 editions also name something called a "pull-iron" (item 58 in their list of terms) but I do not see it any of the diagrams.  I would be interested to learn what item on the car this refers to.
-- 
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL


Re: Car Builder’s Dictionaries

Chris Barkan
 

Thanks for the correction on this point Dave. Throughout my industry career, I was taught that they were properly referred to as "hand holds", and never thought it necessary to check on this; however, now that I have I see that unlike the other terms we are discussing, "grab iron" and "hand hold" both date back at least as far as the 1888 Car-Builder's Dictionary https://library.si.edu/digital-library/book/carbuildersdict00forn (see pp 84 & 87, respectively) and if anything "grab iron" might be the more prominent term.  Figures 93-94 & 95-96 (illustrating an NYC&HR standard boxcar) only shows ladders on the end of the car but not the side.  The "grab iron/handhold" rungs of the end ladder are referred to as "ladder rounds".  There is a "roof grab iron" and two vertical "end grab irons" on the end, and a vertical "corner grab iron" on the side of the car above the sill step. However, Figures 97-101 illustrating a NYWS&B standard boxcar has a horizontal grab iron on the end of the side of the car above the sill step.  The "roof grab iron" on the latter is also differently shaped than on the NYC&HR car.  These inconsistencies were a safety hazard and formed part of the rational for Section 4 of the Safety Appliance Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Safety_Appliance_Act#1893_act (see summary below)

Section 4
Secure grab irons. After July 1, 1895, unless Interstate Commerce Commission says otherwise, unlawful for RR company to use any car in interstate commerce that doesn't have secure grab irons or handholds in the ends and sides of each car (more secure for men who couple and uncouple cars.)

This was further amended by Congress in 1910 (see Section 2) and especially Section 3 directing the ICC to establish standards for the "...number, dimensions, location, and manner of application of the appliances provided for by Section two..."   https://govtrackus.s3.amazonaws.com/legislink/pdf/stat/36/STATUTE-36-Pg298a.pdf

Interestingly, neither term appears in the original (1879) edition of the Car-Builder's Dictionary https://library.si.edu/digital-library/book/carbuildersdicti00mast for the simple reason that these items are largely absent from the boxcars that are illustrated (see pp 216-226).  The vertical grab iron on the side of the car is termed "corner handle" (item 102) and the horizontal handholds on the ends are referred to as "ladder-rounds" (item 59) and "ladder handle" (item 60).

Both the 1879 and the 1888 editions also name something called a "pull-iron" (item 58 in their list of terms) but I do not see it any of the diagrams.  I would be interested to learn what item on the car this refers to.
-- 
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL


Re: Car Builder’s Dictionaries

Tony Thompson
 

We don’t have to guess what the actual railroad industry terms were, because we have the definitions in volumes of the Cyclopedias. Richard Hendrickson always advocated using those defined terms as the first choice. Knowing what working railroaders called things is less valuable, not only because it varied from railroad to railroad and from division to division, but because it was often slang. In effect, the Cyc terms are the engineering terms. Let’s use them.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors

Jeffrey Gray <bigsix@...>
 

Attached photo, Iron Workers 1960 (no tie off BUT hard hats?). The "red iron" and I agree it is pretty much orange!



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Philip Dove <philipdove22@...>
Date: 7/4/21 1:12 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors

Just in case people don't know, red lead at least in a school laboratory grade was actually orange, not even orangey red. Genuine Red lead priming paint was also orange when l sold it in the 1970s and 1980s. White lead was white as a paint but not the brilliant white of paint pigmented with titanium oxide. 
I got the impression that while artist had a pallete of bright colours, for use on structure or as a protective coating paints were before the 1940s usually duller colours. Blue was not popular because it faded quickly in daylight. 



-------- Original message --------
From: "Ralph W. Brown" <rbrown51@...>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021, 16:52
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors
Hi Chuck,
 
The use of “white lead” and “red lead” was not limited to railroads.  White lead was a major paint component.  Oil, typically boiled linseed oil, pigments, driers, and solvents, typically mineral spirits or turpentine, were added to white lead to make now largely banned “lead paint.” 
 
“Red lead” was a lead based paint commonly used as a primer, especially, but not exclusively, over steel as it has rust inhibiting qualities.  We used a lot of it in the Navy and Coast Guard.  It has since largely been replaced by other non-lead red colored primers that some still called “red lead.” 
 
While assigned to the Skipjack in the ‘60s, we used a vinyl paint system that started with zinc chromate primer on bare HY80 steel, sometimes followed by a vinyl “red lead” primer, and then the black vinyl color coat.  MEK was the solvent used for these primers and paints.  I guess my point is that in some circles at least “red lead” became a generic name for any red primer regardless of whether it contained lead.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 
From: Charles Peck
Sent: Sunday, July 4, 2021 9:39 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors
 
Out of not knowing, I am wondering about the uses of lead oxides.  Grandfather, an L&N RR
boilermaker, had mason jars of red lead and white lead that he had brought home from the shops.
I seem to recall the red lead being used as a primer coat. Were these common in RR shops?
What other uses would these have had?
Chuck Peck
 
On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 9:15 AM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Ray,
 
Red pigments are one of the earliest color pigments that human used. Red pigments occur naturally in the form of iron oxides, hence the name "oxide red" as a common paint color for that boxcar red sort of color. Of course, these colors have brown and orange overtones, so they are not the "pure" reds that one associates with the color "caboose red". One of the first uses that I am aware of for a "red" is the PRR's red background for keystones on passenger engines and signs. This color was called "toluidine red" and its use began in the late 1920. The paint was expensive and therefore unlikely to be used for the exterior of cars. Widespread use of truly red car paint seems to coincide with the introduction of synthetic paints and pigments following WWII.
 
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Hutchison <rayhutchison2@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 4, 2021 6:35 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
I know that the answer for individual railroads will differ, but I am wondering when the "caboose red" started to be used?  Color photographs (there are not many) of older cabeese show a boxcar red or similar color, but at some point rialroads began to paint their cars in colors that carried through to modern period.  My particular interest is Great Northern, contemporary models (including brass) show the early wood boxcars in caboose red... but before this, what color would they have been painted?

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay WI


Re: Hills Bros. box cars [was: Mystery boxcar]

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

Interestingly, I don't see HBCX on Ian Cranstone's list of reporting marks, though he does list HBKX for Hills Brothers from 7/1932-7 1937. An error maybe, or another mystery? Can anyone check ORERS for this? I only have 1958, and Hills Brothers are not listed there.

As the cars were not in interchange service, I don’t see why they would be in an ORER.

Tony Thompson



Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors

Bruce Smith
 

Chuck,

Red lead was extremely common in RR shops. But as noted, it was generally a primer and had an oxide red color. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 4, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors
 
Out of not knowing, I am wondering about the uses of lead oxides.  Grandfather, an L&N RR 
boilermaker, had mason jars of red lead and white lead that he had brought home from the shops.
I seem to recall the red lead being used as a primer coat. Were these common in RR shops? 
What other uses would these have had? 
Chuck Peck

On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 9:15 AM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Ray,

Red pigments are one of the earliest color pigments that human used. Red pigments occur naturally in the form of iron oxides, hence the name "oxide red" as a common paint color for that boxcar red sort of color. Of course, these colors have brown and orange overtones, so they are not the "pure" reds that one associates with the color "caboose red". One of the first uses that I am aware of for a "red" is the PRR's red background for keystones on passenger engines and signs. This color was called "toluidine red" and its use began in the late 1920. The paint was expensive and therefore unlikely to be used for the exterior of cars. Widespread use of truly red car paint seems to coincide with the introduction of synthetic paints and pigments following WWII.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Hutchison <rayhutchison2@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 4, 2021 6:35 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
I know that the answer for individual railroads will differ, but I am wondering when the "caboose red" started to be used?  Color photographs (there are not many) of older cabeese show a boxcar red or similar color, but at some point rialroads began to paint their cars in colors that carried through to modern period.  My particular interest is Great Northern, contemporary models (including brass) show the early wood boxcars in caboose red... but before this, what color would they have been painted?

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay WI


Re: Car Builder’s Dictionaries

fire5506
 

Proper Railroad terms and slang, you need to be careful saying whether it's prototype or railfan terminology. Caboose, depending on the railroad it could be a hack, cabin car cab, etc. I worked in the Mechanical dept for 38 years and heard a lot of what is reputed to be railfan/modelers slang used by old heads. Hand hold / grab iron, hold hold in rules and grab iron in day to day use. I've seen grab iron used in manufactures catalogs. Uncoupling lever in rules and cut lever in daily use. Transportation still calls brake valves "triple valves even though triple valves were from the K brake days. I've heard roof walks and running boards used.

Richard


Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors

Dave Parker
 

There is  a fascinating book called "The Painting of Railway Equipment" by B E Miller that dates to 1924:

https://books.google.com/books/about/Painting_of_Railway_Equipment.html?id=3HA5AAAAMAAJ

He lists these red pigments:  vermilion (mercury sulfide), red lead, Venetian red, Indian red, and Tuscan red.  Based on the descriptions, I don't think there would have been any problem formulating a paint that would correspond to our current impression of "caboose red".  I think cadmium-based paints provided (and still do) the most vivid reds, but I'm guessing they were too pricey for use on rail cars.

In the FWIW department, at that time the B&M's cabooses had distinctly red ends, but freight-car color (i.e., oxide) sides.  I don't know if this practice was common on other roads.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Car Builder’s Dictionaries

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Ed & Group!!

Ed your point is not clear.  Speed recording was indeed a feature of the axle driven devices on locomotives.  Yes, speed indicating was also a feature.  See pages 6-471 through 6-474 of the 1947 "LOCOMOTIVE CYCLOPEDIA" which offers information about both Chicago-Pneumatic and General Electric devices.  C-P seems to have been the dominant supplier.

I saw these in service on ERIE GP7 road switchers.  Every run included a paper disk on which was recorded the loco speed through the assignment.  This C-P equipment was driven by a device on the No. 2 axle and the recording device was right there at the control stand where the engineer could see what was being recorded.  These locomotives almost always pulled, pushed, and switched steam-era freight cars.

Of course, no such equipment was ever standard issue or applied to freight cars.  So, why was this even mentioned?

Happy Fourth Of July to everyone--Thank God for our freedoms!

Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.



On Sunday,.ppli July 4, 2021, 11:32:38 AM EDT, Ed Mims <wemims3@...> wrote:


There is one more term that comes to mind and that is "speed recorder" (sorry, not part of a freight car). The garget used on the end of a locomotive axle has never been used as a "speed recorder". It can be a speed recorder drive for the old mechanical speed indicator mounted near the engineers position and in his view (this sometimes included a recording device). Or it can be an axle alternator or generation which produces an electrical signal proportionate to the locomotive's speed which can be displayed in the locomotive cab. There have been many varieties of speed recorders which receive a signal from a device mounted at the end of a splined axle and driven by that axle. None of these end-of-axle devices to my knowledge recorded speed. They only produce a rotary motion or an electrical signal which can be used to indicate speed and also in some cases to activate a recording device.

Thanks to Nelson Moyer for identifying to origin of these terms. I think we should help others understand and use the correct names, doing so politely. Not a big deal, I just like using the correct names.

Ed Mims
Jacksonville, FL



Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors

Philip Dove
 

Just in case people don't know, red lead at least in a school laboratory grade was actually orange, not even orangey red. Genuine Red lead priming paint was also orange when l sold it in the 1970s and 1980s. White lead was white as a paint but not the brilliant white of paint pigmented with titanium oxide. 
I got the impression that while artist had a pallete of bright colours, for use on structure or as a protective coating paints were before the 1940s usually duller colours. Blue was not popular because it faded quickly in daylight. 



-------- Original message --------
From: "Ralph W. Brown" <rbrown51@...>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021, 16:52
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors
Hi Chuck,
 
The use of “white lead” and “red lead” was not limited to railroads.  White lead was a major paint component.  Oil, typically boiled linseed oil, pigments, driers, and solvents, typically mineral spirits or turpentine, were added to white lead to make now largely banned “lead paint.” 
 
“Red lead” was a lead based paint commonly used as a primer, especially, but not exclusively, over steel as it has rust inhibiting qualities.  We used a lot of it in the Navy and Coast Guard.  It has since largely been replaced by other non-lead red colored primers that some still called “red lead.” 
 
While assigned to the Skipjack in the ‘60s, we used a vinyl paint system that started with zinc chromate primer on bare HY80 steel, sometimes followed by a vinyl “red lead” primer, and then the black vinyl color coat.  MEK was the solvent used for these primers and paints.  I guess my point is that in some circles at least “red lead” became a generic name for any red primer regardless of whether it contained lead.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 
From: Charles Peck
Sent: Sunday, July 4, 2021 9:39 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors
 
Out of not knowing, I am wondering about the uses of lead oxides.  Grandfather, an L&N RR
boilermaker, had mason jars of red lead and white lead that he had brought home from the shops.
I seem to recall the red lead being used as a primer coat. Were these common in RR shops?
What other uses would these have had?
Chuck Peck
 
On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 9:15 AM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Ray,
 
Red pigments are one of the earliest color pigments that human used. Red pigments occur naturally in the form of iron oxides, hence the name "oxide red" as a common paint color for that boxcar red sort of color. Of course, these colors have brown and orange overtones, so they are not the "pure" reds that one associates with the color "caboose red". One of the first uses that I am aware of for a "red" is the PRR's red background for keystones on passenger engines and signs. This color was called "toluidine red" and its use began in the late 1920. The paint was expensive and therefore unlikely to be used for the exterior of cars. Widespread use of truly red car paint seems to coincide with the introduction of synthetic paints and pigments following WWII.
 
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Hutchison <rayhutchison2@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 4, 2021 6:35 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] caboose colors
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
I know that the answer for individual railroads will differ, but I am wondering when the "caboose red" started to be used?  Color photographs (there are not many) of older cabeese show a boxcar red or similar color, but at some point rialroads began to paint their cars in colors that carried through to modern period.  My particular interest is Great Northern, contemporary models (including brass) show the early wood boxcars in caboose red... but before this, what color would they have been painted?

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay WI


Re: Photo: NYC Gondola 501235 With Heavily Weathered Canisters

schmuck804_99@...
 

Says Coalburg Ohio. That was a ex LS&MS yard that was turned into a scrap yard.(Midwest Steel and Alloy Scrap) Erie's lone 44 tonner was the shop switchers and the first GG1 "rivets" was scrapped there. It is all a field now.

Chris S.


Photo: NYC Gondola 501235 With Heavily Weathered Canisters

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: NYC Gondola 501235 With Heavily Weathered Canisters

Photo from the New York Central Historical Society:

https://nycshs.omeka.net/items/show/96588

The car has been “white lined” so probably on way to scrapper.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

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