Date   

Re: St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co. models

Gene Deimling
 

Jim Zwernemann built this 1/4” scale model of the older truss rod series.  He used styrene as his primary material.  Jim attempted to use the Tichy decal set but ended taking a different route. 

Gene Deimling


Re: St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co. models

Lester Breuer
 

As for St. Louis Refrigerator Car Company, class RS, series 10000-10399, a photo of SLRX 10086 with clearly visible  ice hatches is in Ted Culotta’s book Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual Volume Three Refrigerator Cars, Page 202.
Lester Breuer


Re: Wabash 88200-88699 Series Photos

Tim O'Connor
 


Here is a scan of an NJI&I paint sample (from Ed's TIFF scan) and also an "eyedropper" image
made from that paint sample scan.

Painted colors changed quickly in the real world. Unless you model only new cars, almost any
shade of  'oxide red'  is believable.

The colors look right to me, but I calibrated my screen. They may look different on your screen. :-(

Tim O'Connor


On 7/26/2021 4:35 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:


On Jul 26, 2021, at 1:51 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

I pulled out the YMW Wabash 88200 series kit from the stash, and realized that the only color photo I have is the blurry photo of 88803 in a train. I can’t see the roof and underframe, so I don’t know the paint color. It appears that the truck side frames were black. These cars were built by ACF in 1948, so what was the Wabash paint practice at that time? I’d appreciate any color photos of these cars, especially showing B end details and location of the relief valve bleed rod.

Nelson,
WAB 88200-88699 was built by ACF in lot 3226. Paint specs from the ACF bill of materials:

Pittsburgh (first 167)/P.D. George Co. (next 167)/Sherwin-Williams (last 166) - Wabash #10 Red - sides, ends, trucks; black car cement - roof, underframe; black paint - AB brake parts; white - stencils.

This particular lot did not contain a paint sample, nor did any other Wabash orders of ACF box cars. It’s redder than “box car red” but is unlike “red oxide.” The Morning Sun Books Wabash / NKP / DT&I Color Guide has several photos that illustrate the color better than I can try to describe in words. 

Attached is the ACF B end builder photo, which is horribly back-lit. I worked on it in Photoshop, and it can be further adjusted to suit. Hopefully it’s sufficient to configure the end on your model & the end stencils. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co. models

Lester Breuer
 

Tim SLRX Reefer is in the number series, 10000-10399 Ed  Hawkins mentions in his post.  And I was attempting to 
ask  if anyone knew of a model produced by any manufacturer done in this number series.
Lester Breuer


Re: InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)-now Why Aren't There Production Kits?

SamClarke
 

Hello group,

I'm only going chime in with a few comments.

First, our "primary" products are "couplers". If we depended only on
"freight cars" we would not be in business, freight cars are a "secondary
product" for us more or less a sideline. We offer "kit" forms of some of our
freight cars and kits are more labor intensive than fully assembled RTR
cars. The time it takes to pull, count, and package all the parts and
instructions is more than putting the parts on an assembled car without
instructions.

On some cars it takes 2 to 3 years to do all the tooling for a complete new
freight car this includes different sorts of assembly jigs and such.

One of the biggest issues we have is finding "skilled" labor or even
somebody that actually wants to work. There is a distinct shortage of
skilled labor in this country and even if someone wanted to open a new model
manufacturing operation in the USA they I doubt they could find enough
people to work that would be willing to be trained or develop simple
assembly skills at an affordable labor rate. Actual labor "wages" is a lot
different than what a "labor rate" is.

We have a small group of very skilled people some have been with Kadee for
more than 30 years, that's the kind of skill and experience that can not
easily be replaced. This is my 26th year with Kadee and I'm planning on
retiring "sometime" this year, perhaps I might do some part time work here,
I just don't yet. Golf, fishing, and my art work are waiting.

We don't have a quality control issue, as other manufacturer's might have,
we just step into the back room and take care of it.

Nobody does business like Kadee does so I can't see comparing Kadee with
other manufacturers. This is our 75th year and we plan on being around for a
long time to come.

Now I've said more than I planned on, sorry.

Sam Clarke
R&D / Tech Advisor / Artist
Kadee Quality Products Co.
mail@kadee.com
541-826-3883

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Gerald Henriksen
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 1:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers
(Re-Release)-now Why Aren't There Production Kits?

On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 15:20:46 -0700, you wrote:

Charlie Vlk wrote:

If somebody wanted to go through the hassle of setting up a full-blown
factory here in the US, talk to Accurail, Bowser, Con-Cor, Atlas,
Inter-Mountain, or any other of the companies that eventually had to
partially or completely give in to overseas production or assembly.

Or maybe you would want to talk to Kadee instead. C'mon, Charlie.
Don't think customers would be happy to limit themselves to the small number
of models that Kadee has found it profitable to make.

Or take Bowser, who per their recent video still appear to do the tooling
and injection in the US - but spend years tooling up 1 new model.

We want more variety than that, and more complicated models, and that means
China or the next low cost jurisdiction.


Re: InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)-now Why Aren't There Production Kits?

Randy Hammill
 

I have talked to Kadee. Several times. They don’t have capacity to finish all the projects they want, much less taking on somebody else’s.

They produce their freight cars utilizing excess capacity from their couplers business. It they were to only produce freight cars, it would have to be in China as well.

It’s a business model nobody else can replicate, unfortunately.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)-now Why Aren't There Production Kits?

 

TONS of them. Athearn blue box, paint, and Champ decals.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

Micro-Trains anyway.  Like Brian’s example, the solution was to have somebody assemble the cars (all of a minute each) and then they sold.

Remember buying Karline repainted and decaled RTR cars because they offered roadnames, paint jobs and a variety of roadnumbers back when Athearn and MDC were running the same cars, year after year, without variation??

Charlie Vlk

 

 


Re: InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)-now Why Aren't There Production Kits?

Mark Rossiter
 

I understand Bowser was one of the victims of the abrupt closure of one of the major Chinese factories several years ago.  I’m not sure if they were ever able to recover all of the molds used to produce their PCC and New Orleans streetcars.  Those are excellent models and were (still are) very popular, but became unavailable overnight with no hope of repair or replacement parts!

 

Mandatory freight car content:  Prototype streetcars were often delivered on flat cars!

 

Mark Rossiter 

 


Re: InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)-now Why Aren't There Production Kits?

Charlie Vlk
 

On the other hand, I recall when Life-Like brought out their initial HO kits there was much bitching and moaning about the price…don’t recall the exact price point, but it was a few bucks more than the prevailing MDC and Athearn kits.

In N, the MDC kits laid an egg….even though they only consisted of a body, brake wheel and underframe.  The trucks and talgo couplers required assembly, but most were replacing them with Micro-Trains anyway.  Like Brian’s example, the solution was to have somebody assemble the cars (all of a minute each) and then they sold.

Remember buying Karline repainted and decaled RTR cars because they offered roadnames, paint jobs and a variety of roadnumbers back when Athearn and MDC were running the same cars, year after year, without variation??

Charlie Vlk

 


Re: Wabash 88200-88699 Series Photos

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks for the photo and information, Ed. Looking at the end, I think the ladder has 16 inch rungs, and I would guess the side ladders had 18 in. rungs. Can you confirm that?

 

I have the Wabash in Color book, but no the color guide. Hopefully someone will provide color photos and a side view in either B&W or color.

 

Nelson Moyer

 


Re: InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)-now Why Aren't There Production Kits?

Gerald Henriksen
 

On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 15:20:46 -0700, you wrote:

Charlie Vlk wrote:

If somebody wanted to go through the hassle of setting up a full-blown factory here in the US, talk to Accurail, Bowser, Con-Cor, Atlas, Inter-Mountain, or any other of the companies that eventually had to partially or completely give in to overseas production or assembly.
Or maybe you would want to talk to Kadee instead. C’mon, Charlie.
Don't think customers would be happy to limit themselves to the small
number of models that Kadee has found it profitable to make.

Or take Bowser, who per their recent video still appear to do the
tooling and injection in the US - but spend years tooling up 1 new
model.

We want more variety than that, and more complicated models, and that
means China or the next low cost jurisdiction.


Re: Wabash 88200-88699 Series Photos

Ed Hawkins
 



On Jul 26, 2021, at 1:51 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

I pulled out the YMW Wabash 88200 series kit from the stash, and realized that the only color photo I have is the blurry photo of 88803 in a train. I can’t see the roof and underframe, so I don’t know the paint color. It appears that the truck side frames were black. These cars were built by ACF in 1948, so what was the Wabash paint practice at that time? I’d appreciate any color photos of these cars, especially showing B end details and location of the relief valve bleed rod.

Nelson,
WAB 88200-88699 was built by ACF in lot 3226. Paint specs from the ACF bill of materials:

Pittsburgh (first 167)/P.D. George Co. (next 167)/Sherwin-Williams (last 166) - Wabash #10 Red - sides, ends, trucks; black car cement - roof, underframe; black paint - AB brake parts; white - stencils.

This particular lot did not contain a paint sample, nor did any other Wabash orders of ACF box cars. It’s redder than “box car red” but is unlike “red oxide.” The Morning Sun Books Wabash / NKP / DT&I Color Guide has several photos that illustrate the color better than I can try to describe in words. 

Attached is the ACF B end builder photo, which is horribly back-lit. I worked on it in Photoshop, and it can be further adjusted to suit. Hopefully it’s sufficient to configure the end on your model & the end stencils. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Why Aren't There Production Kits?

Tim O'Connor
 


There's probably a price (cost) threshold that will bring manufacturing back closer to the consumer.

New 'super quality' freight cars are almost all pushing $50 or more (some are MUCH more). And lots
of old junk models are selling just below that 'price umbrella' that gives them cover for asking $30 for
a product that has 10 parts assembled in two minutes from tooling that is 50+ years old in some cases.
The "Athearn Blue Box" group on Facebook represents a lot of people who love model trains but do
not want to spend a lot of money on them.

But other than Kadee (genius level design & manufacturing) I don't think those 'super quality' models are
going to be built here in our lifetimes, unless we build them. :-)

Tim O'Connor



On 7/26/2021 1:07 PM, Charlie Vlk wrote:
Tony-
Kadee and Micro-Trains are legacy Made in the U.S.A. businesses and God bless them for being able to keep them prospering.   They were fortunate to be in places and circumstances outside of the currents that swept away the others I mentioned and more.
It isn’t just the cost of labor that has driven companies to China.   Simply, the creation of turnkey manufacturing centers has removed most of the myriad of roadblocks to creating product....in many aspects.  It has allowed individuals to visualize and import world-class products which would not be possible to initiate here from scratch.
Somebody could invest their money in a new startup or even buy an existing company to prove that they can make kits here proving Atlas, Athearn, Con-Cor, Model Die Casting, and others were wrong.
Charlie Vlk

On Jul 25, 2021, at 5:20 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Or maybe you would want to talk to Kadee instead. _


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co. models

 

OOPS! Should have read the original posts better. My bad.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, July 26, 2021 at 2:19 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co. models

 


I should have checked my hard drive more carefully... I did have an image of an SLRX reefer. :-[

Tim O'Connor



On 7/26/2021 10:49 AM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

 



On Jul 26, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

 

From an estate being disposed of at a local flea market I purchased the Reefer of which photo is attached.
With hatches the number is incorrect as it should be numbered in the class RS series. 
A correct class RB , no ice bunkers, a Sunshine Models kit is shown on Tony Thompson’s blog.  After an internet search
I could not find any model of the St. Louis Reefer numbered correctly in the RS series.  All manufacture models I found had a class RB number 
on a CAR WITH HATCHES.  Wondering if I missed finding a correct lettered St. Louis Reefer model with a number in the RS series?
Lester Breuer

 

Lester,

The only St. Louis Refrigerator Car RS reefers that I’m aware of were SLRX 10000-10399, built in 1922 by MDT with a lease arrangement from late 1949 to 1954. The Roger Hinman class number is “M4.” 

 

In 1/50 & 1/51, the ORER listed 200 cars; 4/51 & 1/52 listed 400 cars; 1/53 listed 365 cars; 1/54 listed 57 cars; by 10/54 zero cars. 

 

Arnold Menke offers photos of 10086 & 10360 photographed 4/50 & 3/51, respectively. 

Regards,

Ed Hawkins

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co. models

 

Is that an actual reefer (with ice bunkers) or just a plug door bunkerless insulated box car? I see no evidence of hatches on these cars with plug doors, and I have many more similar photos. Even the ancient 6114 is bunkerless.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, July 26, 2021 at 2:19 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co. models

 


I should have checked my hard drive more carefully... I did have an image of an SLRX reefer. :-[

Tim O'Connor



On 7/26/2021 10:49 AM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

 



On Jul 26, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

 

From an estate being disposed of at a local flea market I purchased the Reefer of which photo is attached.
With hatches the number is incorrect as it should be numbered in the class RS series. 
A correct class RB , no ice bunkers, a Sunshine Models kit is shown on Tony Thompson’s blog.  After an internet search
I could not find any model of the St. Louis Reefer numbered correctly in the RS series.  All manufacture models I found had a class RB number 
on a CAR WITH HATCHES.  Wondering if I missed finding a correct lettered St. Louis Reefer model with a number in the RS series?
Lester Breuer

 

Lester,

The only St. Louis Refrigerator Car RS reefers that I’m aware of were SLRX 10000-10399, built in 1922 by MDT with a lease arrangement from late 1949 to 1954. The Roger Hinman class number is “M4.” 

 

In 1/50 & 1/51, the ORER listed 200 cars; 4/51 & 1/52 listed 400 cars; 1/53 listed 365 cars; 1/54 listed 57 cars; by 10/54 zero cars. 

 

Arnold Menke offers photos of 10086 & 10360 photographed 4/50 & 3/51, respectively. 

Regards,

Ed Hawkins

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co. models

Tim O'Connor
 


I should have checked my hard drive more carefully... I did have an image of an SLRX reefer. :-[

Tim O'Connor



On 7/26/2021 10:49 AM, Ed Hawkins wrote:


On Jul 26, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

From an estate being disposed of at a local flea market I purchased the Reefer of which photo is attached.
With hatches the number is incorrect as it should be numbered in the class RS series. 
A correct class RB , no ice bunkers, a Sunshine Models kit is shown on Tony Thompson’s blog.  After an internet search
I could not find any model of the St. Louis Reefer numbered correctly in the RS series.  All manufacture models I found had a class RB number 
on a CAR WITH HATCHES.  Wondering if I missed finding a correct lettered St. Louis Reefer model with a number in the RS series?
Lester Breuer

Lester,
The only St. Louis Refrigerator Car RS reefers that I’m aware of were SLRX 10000-10399, built in 1922 by MDT with a lease arrangement from late 1949 to 1954. The Roger Hinman class number is “M4.” 

In 1/50 & 1/51, the ORER listed 200 cars; 4/51 & 1/52 listed 400 cars; 1/53 listed 365 cars; 1/54 listed 57 cars; by 10/54 zero cars. 

Arnold Menke offers photos of 10086 & 10360 photographed 4/50 & 3/51, respectively. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)-now Why Aren't There Production Kits?

Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis

I'm sure it helps that your model tooling is so good! And I think I've used about 30 of your freight
car underframes. Long live Accurail! :-D

Tim O'Connor


On 7/26/2021 2:53 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 06:56 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Have Accurail and Bowser out-sourced their injection molding too?
As far as Accurail is concerned, all our molding is still right here in Elburn, IL, USA. We did send some assembly work to China in the first decade of this century (anyone remember Accuready?) but stopped with the economic downturn that caused several firms to lose partially completed product as contractors closed and simply disappeared. We never re-started the assembly program... I got tired of hearing "Send tools, all problems solved!" as the answer to any and all complaints. That would have been the end of the kit line.

Dennis Storzek

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)-now Why Aren't There Production Kits?

 

Congratulations for staying the course.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, July 26, 2021 at 1:53 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)-now Why Aren't There Production Kits?

 

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 06:56 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Have Accurail and Bowser out-sourced their injection molding too?

As far as Accurail is concerned, all our molding is still right here in Elburn, IL, USA. We did send some assembly work to China in the first decade of this century (anyone remember Accuready?) but stopped with the economic downturn that caused several firms to lose partially completed product as contractors closed and simply disappeared. We never re-started the assembly program... I got tired of hearing "Send tools, all problems solved!" as the answer to any and all complaints. That would have been the end of the kit line.

Dennis Storzek


Re: InterMountain HO Scale Two-Bay Hoppers (Re-Release)-now Why Aren't There Production Kits?

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 06:56 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Have Accurail and Bowser out-sourced their injection molding too?
As far as Accurail is concerned, all our molding is still right here in Elburn, IL, USA. We did send some assembly work to China in the first decade of this century (anyone remember Accuready?) but stopped with the economic downturn that caused several firms to lose partially completed product as contractors closed and simply disappeared. We never re-started the assembly program... I got tired of hearing "Send tools, all problems solved!" as the answer to any and all complaints. That would have been the end of the kit line.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Why Aren't There Production Kits?

Tony Thompson
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:

Kadee and Micro-Trains are legacy Made in the U.S.A. businesses and God bless them for being able to keep them prospering.   They were fortunate to be in places and circumstances outside of the currents that swept away the others I mentioned and more.

Gee, all this time I thought your list (Atlas, Athearn, Con-Cor, etc.) were legacies too.

Tony Thompson



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