Date   

Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Facilities and Tank Cars?

ed_mines
 

Tanks would have different materials of construction and linings, depending on the material being shipped.
Tank cars containing gases would have special fittings so gas couldn't couldn't inadvertently be transferred into the wrong vessel (for example you don't want to put chlorine where oxygen is stored).
I have another tank car question. Where I lived petroleum products were moved from refineries to oil tank farms by boat (I worked right next door to an oil terminal on the Hudson).
Am I correct that only a few of the most popular products like gasoline and home heating oil were stored in those oil tank farms and less common products like aviation gasoline were still shipped by tank car?
Although not so common now would those tank farms be supplied by rail cars during the winter if the waterway froze, meaning there would be more tank cars in use during the winter?
Coal was stored in huge silos (maybe not the right word). In the winter time would wet coal be added to those silos? (It could possibly freeze).
Were tank farms and coal storage silos allowed to empty during the winter?
It's very hilly where I live now. There's a water tower at the top of the hill. I assume water is pumped into it round the clock and the tower empties during the day. Sometimes the water company sends a tank truck to the tower and I'm guessing the water level in the tower is below a certain level.






Re: Photo: Wheeling & Lake Erie Truss Rod Gondola 43357 (1925)

Doug Paasch
 

That's a really cool gondola!  But what does the big ''H'' with the circle around it designate?

Doug Paasch

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 10:27 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Photo: Wheeling & Lake Erie Truss Rod Gondola 43357

Photo courtesy of Chris Ellis:

https://tinyurl.com/dwh27wx3

Taken at Brewster, Ohio.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Facilities and Tank Cars?

Tim O'Connor
 


I think those "links" were one of the reasons Standard Oil was broken up in the first place! ;-)

Tim O'Connor


On 8/20/2021 10:09 AM, Jim Betz wrote:
Hi,
  I don't remember ever hearing anyone comment on this topic.

  Were/are there any 'links' between a facility receiving a tank car and a specific
tank car line(s)?  For example, if you have a local distributor of Standard Oil
products was it more likely that the tank cars supplying that facility would be
from certain tank car lines than others?  And if the facility was Texaco would
it have gotten a different mix? 
  I know that certain reefers were much more likely to show up on certain RRs
than others (such as, for example, PFE on the SP).  I'm wondering if there
was (is?) the same kind of thing for tank cars ... ???
  STMFC era, of course.
                                                                                                           - Jim 

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Facilities and Tank Cars?

Richard Townsend
 

Yes, often. Some oil companies had their own tank car fleets (or at least leased cars decorated for the oil company). Sinclair was one of the biggest. Texaco too. Others as well. Many of the baby standards (broken out of the Standard Oil trust) used UTLX cars. Rockefeller had owned Standard Oil and the Union Tank Line. A good book on the subject is John D. Rockefeller's Secret Weapon by Albert Z. Carr (McGraw-Hill, 1962). UTLX Steam Era Tank Cars by our own Stephen Hile (Speedwitch Media, 2018) goes into it as well.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Betz <jimbetz@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Aug 20, 2021 7:09 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Facilities and Tank Cars?

Hi,
  I don't remember ever hearing anyone comment on this topic.

  Were/are there any 'links' between a facility receiving a tank car and a specific
tank car line(s)?  For example, if you have a local distributor of Standard Oil
products was it more likely that the tank cars supplying that facility would be
from certain tank car lines than others?  And if the facility was Texaco would
it have gotten a different mix? 
  I know that certain reefers were much more likely to show up on certain RRs
than others (such as, for example, PFE on the SP).  I'm wondering if there
was (is?) the same kind of thing for tank cars ... ???
  STMFC era, of course.
                                                                                                           - Jim 


Re: UTLX, Pennzoil questions

Bob Chaparro
 

On the Early Rail Group Brad Smith commented:
"I wrote the Model Railroader article. I was employed by the Milwaukee Road and at that time, no one knew I was a railfan. I was a mechanical engineer in the locomotive department at the time. I found the derelict car and with the help of another closet railfan engineer from the car department, we got all the information that could be had. The car did not have high running boards and was just like I modeled, in the article. The colors at that time were a red bell, not yellow as now. Somewhere I have pics of the car and the tracing of the Pennzoil herald, used to make the decals.  The new owners of Pennzoil don't care about the history at all and I have nowhere to donate the stuff.
 
That article outed me as a railfan and I found out that half of the department and shop force were fans also. I stayed with the MILW until the SOO takeover and left railroading.
 
I don't think I have helped you much, but now you know the rest of the story."
Brad Smith, Franklin, WI


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Facilities and Tank Cars?

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ed;

 

Yes, they were!

 

I know what was going into/coming out of every tank car on my modeled portion of the PRR.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of ed_mines via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 12:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Facilities and Tank Cars?

 

Elden, all the tank cars you mentioned could be dedicated to one particular load.

Just think of how difficult it is to clean out even the smallest tank car. What would you do with the cleaning solution?

Cars containing petroleum based materials might not be so segregated. During WWII cars used to ship crude oil were refilled with refinery products after a cursory cleaning with steam.


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Facilities and Tank Cars?

ed_mines
 

Elden, all the tank cars you mentioned could be dedicated to one particular load.

Just think of how difficult it is to clean out even the smallest tank car. What would you do with the cleaning solution?

Cars containing petroleum based materials might not be so segregated. During WWII cars used to ship crude oil were refilled with refinery products after a cursory cleaning with steam.


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Facilities and Tank Cars?

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Jim;

 

There most certainly was, in many cases.

 

For my area of interest, certain industries, utilities and RRs got their tank cars from specific suppliers.

 

There were Stauffer tanks going to Stauffer, USS and GATX tanks going to USSteel’s Clairton Works, and strings of UTLX tanks going to PRR’s engine facilities when UTL had the lease.

 

That is why I have a very specific tank car fleet😊

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 10:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Facilities and Tank Cars?

 

Hi,
  I don't remember ever hearing anyone comment on this topic.

  Were/are there any 'links' between a facility receiving a tank car and a specific
tank car line(s)?  For example, if you have a local distributor of Standard Oil
products was it more likely that the tank cars supplying that facility would be
from certain tank car lines than others?  And if the facility was Texaco would
it have gotten a different mix? 
  I know that certain reefers were much more likely to show up on certain RRs
than others (such as, for example, PFE on the SP).  I'm wondering if there
was (is?) the same kind of thing for tank cars ... ???
  STMFC era, of course.
                                                                                                           - Jim 


Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Additional interesting loads from the EJ&E

Bruce Smith
 

Todd,

That was a major navy depot and naval barrels were stored there. I beleive that the logic was to keep vital materials away from the coasts so that they would not be targets for carrier airstrilkes or even limited land force incursions.

Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 9:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Additional interesting loads from the EJ&E
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Bruce,

That's really interesting.  Why Pocatello,ID? 

Todd Sullivan.


Re: Additional interesting loads from the EJ&E

Todd Sullivan
 

Bruce,

That's really interesting.  Why Pocatello,ID? 

Todd Sullivan.


Facilities and Tank Cars?

Jim Betz
 

Hi,
  I don't remember ever hearing anyone comment on this topic.

  Were/are there any 'links' between a facility receiving a tank car and a specific
tank car line(s)?  For example, if you have a local distributor of Standard Oil
products was it more likely that the tank cars supplying that facility would be
from certain tank car lines than others?  And if the facility was Texaco would
it have gotten a different mix? 
  I know that certain reefers were much more likely to show up on certain RRs
than others (such as, for example, PFE on the SP).  I'm wondering if there
was (is?) the same kind of thing for tank cars ... ???
  STMFC era, of course.
                                                                                                           - Jim 


Re: MDC HO Milw short flat car prototype photo

Tim O'Connor
 


Ah yes, the famous 3,000 mm mortar barrel ! Could launch an entire platoon of infantry over the walls of a fort. :-)


On 8/20/2021 8:15 AM, Andy Carlson wrote:

2nd sending; seems first never arrived.
-AC

Look familiar? Date and location not noted.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Additional interesting loads from the EJ&E

Tim O'Connor
 


They were used in naval gun barrel service to Bremerton, Washington. The PRR also
had such flat cars. Barrels would be mounted on swivels to go around curves. AMB
makes HO scale laser cut parts to model the swivels.

Tim O'Connor


On 8/13/2021 7:02 PM, Robert G P wrote:
Can anyone tell me why the MLW cars are referred to as gun flats? Thanks in advance!


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Massive period B&W Ed Wilkommen Freight Car collection

Andy Carlson
 

I have spent hours viewing just the start of this on-line collection of freight cars. None are dated or located. Water marks are quite visible but the web site offers photos for purchase.

Enjoy only when you have a lot of time.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


MDC HO Milw short flat car prototype photo

Andy Carlson
 


2nd sending; seems first never arrived.
-AC
Inline image
Look familiar? Date and location not noted.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Additional interesting loads from the EJ&E

Bruce Smith
 

Robert,

I will add that the Milwaukee Road flats were built specifically for hauling large naval gun barrels. Immediately following their construction, they were leased to the Union Pacific and were placed in service hauling barrels from Pocatello to Bremerton.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of robert netzlof <rtnetzlof@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2021 11:30 PM
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Additional interesting loads from the EJ&E
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

For same reason the PRR F22 and F23 were called gun flats (gun trucks in ancient usage).

See for example http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=F22.gif&sel=flat&sz=lg

Little short cars rated to carry heavy loads, 95 tons in the case of the PRR cars. Often operated in groups of 2 or more connected by bridge pieces to support really heavy loads such as naval and coast artillery gun barrels.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert G P" <bobgp5109@...>
To: "main" <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2021 7:02:02 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Additional interesting loads from the EJ&E

Can anyone tell me why the MLW cars are referred to as gun flats? Thanks in
advance!

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 5:29 PM Charles Happel via groups.io <cghappel2001=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

> The second and third pictures appear to be taken at Roundout, IL, where
> the EJ&E interchanges with the Milwaukee Road.
> Chuck Happel
>
> “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”
> Bertrand Russell
>
>
> On Friday, August 13, 2021, 04:03:11 PM EDT, Bruce Smith <
> smithbf@...> wrote:
>
>
> Folks,
>
>
> From the same collection as the photos Bob has posted
>
>
> http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-315/lightbox/
>
>
> http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-314/lightbox/
>
>
> http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-313/lightbox/
>
>
> http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-312/lightbox/
>
>
>
> The load (which looks like a refinery cracking tower, or kiln of some
> sort) is carried on 4 flat cars. The wider end is on a Milwaukee, 4-truck
> flat car. Interestingly, just behind this is a 1942 built Milwaukee Road
> gun flat. There is another MILW gun flat at the other end.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce Smith
> Auburn AL
>
>
>
> *From: *<main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via
> groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
> *Reply-To: *"main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
> *Date: *Friday, August 13, 2021 at 12:08 PM
> *To: *"main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
> *Subject: *[EXT] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unusual Load On HD Flat Cat
>
>
>
> *CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.*
>
> Photo: Unusual Load On HD Flat Cat
>
> Photo from the Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Railway Archive:
>
>
> http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-307/lightbox/
>
> No caption to indicate what this load is. Anyone?
>
> Bob Chaparro
>
> Hemet, CA
>
>
>
>



--
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob






Re: Additional interesting loads from the EJ&E

robert netzlof <rtnetzlof@...>
 

For same reason the PRR F22 and F23 were called gun flats (gun trucks in ancient usage).

See for example http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=F22.gif&sel=flat&sz=lg

Little short cars rated to carry heavy loads, 95 tons in the case of the PRR cars. Often operated in groups of 2 or more connected by bridge pieces to support really heavy loads such as naval and coast artillery gun barrels.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert G P" <bobgp5109@gmail.com>
To: "main" <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2021 7:02:02 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Additional interesting loads from the EJ&E

Can anyone tell me why the MLW cars are referred to as gun flats? Thanks in
advance!

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 5:29 PM Charles Happel via groups.io <cghappel2001=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

The second and third pictures appear to be taken at Roundout, IL, where
the EJ&E interchanges with the Milwaukee Road.
Chuck Happel

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”
Bertrand Russell


On Friday, August 13, 2021, 04:03:11 PM EDT, Bruce Smith <
smithbf@auburn.edu> wrote:


Folks,


From the same collection as the photos Bob has posted


http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-315/lightbox/


http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-314/lightbox/


http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-313/lightbox/


http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-312/lightbox/



The load (which looks like a refinery cracking tower, or kiln of some
sort) is carried on 4 flat cars. The wider end is on a Milwaukee, 4-truck
flat car. Interestingly, just behind this is a 1942 built Milwaukee Road
gun flat. There is another MILW gun flat at the other end.



Regards,

Bruce Smith
Auburn AL



*From: *<main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via
groups.io" <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io>
*Reply-To: *"main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
*Date: *Friday, August 13, 2021 at 12:08 PM
*To: *"main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
*Subject: *[EXT] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unusual Load On HD Flat Cat



*CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.*

Photo: Unusual Load On HD Flat Cat

Photo from the Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Railway Archive:


http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-307/lightbox/

No caption to indicate what this load is. Anyone?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA





--
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob


Re: Look at that roof

Drew Bunn
 

Jason, 

     Don't forget bent lock rods and wheels on plug door cars.

     I've heard that an overzealous forklift operator can push a plug door completely off the door tracks and off the car.
________________
Drew Bunn

Burlington,  ON
drew.r.bunn@...
905 483 0758


On Thu., Aug. 19, 2021, 23:15 Jason P, <gmo1515@...> wrote:
I've noticed similar roof bulges in modern boxcars that are currently in service. As Jim said it was likely due to an errant forklift maneuver at some point. At a weathering clinic many years ago, a person pointed out the scratches/gouges that are sometimes seen to the right of a boxcar door. While sometimes these could be due to the door rubbing the car side, it is often due to a forklift tynes being used to push the door closed. If the tyne slips off the door during this moove it can result in those scratches which will eventually cause a rust streak.

-Jason P
Helena AL


Re: Look at that roof

Jason P
 

I've noticed similar roof bulges in modern boxcars that are currently in service. As Jim said it was likely due to an errant forklift maneuver at some point. At a weathering clinic many years ago, a person pointed out the scratches/gouges that are sometimes seen to the right of a boxcar door. While sometimes these could be due to the door rubbing the car side, it is often due to a forklift tynes being used to push the door closed. If the tyne slips off the door during this moove it can result in those scratches which will eventually cause a rust streak.

-Jason P
Helena AL


Re: Additional interesting loads from the EJ&E

Robert G P
 

Can anyone tell me why the MLW cars are referred to as gun flats? Thanks in advance!


On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 5:29 PM Charles Happel via groups.io <cghappel2001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
The second and third pictures appear to be taken at Roundout, IL, where the EJ&E interchanges with the Milwaukee Road.
Chuck Happel

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”
Bertrand Russell


On Friday, August 13, 2021, 04:03:11 PM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Folks,


From the same collection as the photos Bob has posted

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-315/lightbox/

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-314/lightbox/

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-313/lightbox/

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-312/lightbox/

 

The load (which looks like a refinery cracking tower, or kiln of some sort) is carried on 4 flat cars. The wider end is on a Milwaukee, 4-truck flat car. Interestingly, just behind this is a 1942 built Milwaukee Road gun flat. There is another MILW gun flat at the other end.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith
Auburn AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Friday, August 13, 2021 at 12:08 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unusual Load On HD Flat Cat

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Photo: Unusual Load On HD Flat Cat

Photo from the Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Railway Archive:

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-307/lightbox/

No caption to indicate what this load is. Anyone?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

6121 - 6140 of 192760