Date   

Re: A few period boxcar roofs 1948 St Louis

Charlie Duckworth
 

Matthew
I don’t own the original images sorry. They were part of a group of slides that were shown at the TRRA convention.  I just cropped the roof areas for this group to review.  
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: A few period boxcar roofs 1948 St Louis

Matthew Hurst
 

Mr Duckworth,

Would you happen to have the full image for 5th image in your list? 

I’m a Pennsylvania Railroad modeler and I love the boxcars in the foreground and I would love to see the T1 in the back. 

Thanks for sharing. 

Regards 

Matthew Hurst


On Aug 21, 2021, at 9:09 AM, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:



Here’s some boxcar roofs that were in some slides of passenger trains shots taken at SLUS.  A few ideas for weathering of the various roofs and the wood running boards.  


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.

Attachments:


Re: A few period boxcar roofs 1948 St Louis

vapeurchapelon
 

Dear Charlie,
 
these are truly wonderful photos - lots of thanks for sharing them!
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1954
 
Gesendet: Samstag, 21. August 2021 um 15:09 Uhr
Von: "Charlie Duckworth" <omahaduck@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] A few period boxcar roofs 1948 St Louis

Here’s some boxcar roofs that were in some slides of passenger trains shots taken at SLUS.  A few ideas for weathering of the various roofs and the wood running boards.  


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Cudahy 1501-1600

nyc3001 .
 

Doug,

The model is based on one design of GA reefer, which was first installed in 1937. The CRLX 5501-6250 series, which is one scheme that the Rapido reefer represents, is in actuality a completely different design as Roger says.

If it is true that the 1501-series reefers were rebuilt from older CRLX cars, then the Rapido car is a foobie for CRLX in the absence of further information.

One of the issues that I've seen with the Rapido reefers' reception is that some high-profile modelers have asserted their accuracy for schemes like Swift, WCLX, ARLX, and CRLX when in reality those are foobie schemes. Reefers with those reporting marks were of different designs (especially WCLX), but I have seen very few modelers acknowledge this.

The Rapido reefers fill a need but are not sufficient to model a typical block of meat reefers representing a variety of meat packers.

-Phil


Re: A few period boxcar roofs 1948 St Louis

Steve SANDIFER
 

I do not look at contemporary freight cars to weather my steam freight car models. Oily journals vs roller bearings create different weathering. Steam locos vs. modern diesels make a difference. Different paint composition, welded vs. riveted construction – all make a difference. I just wish there were more color photos from the 40s and early 50s to use as guides.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Adams
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 3:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] A few period boxcar roofs 1948 St Louis

 

These photos of car roofs remind us of the prevalence of soot from coal burning in the steam and transition eras. Rain apparently didn't wash much off Reduced maintenance in the depression era and then WW 2 with car shortages and less available labor for washing cars would contribute to the grimy appearance.  As an early 1950's modeler of the far west should all of the box cars more than a few months after building or a repaint have shown this dark coating.  Railroads weren't the only source of the soot as everything burned coal in large parts of the country. 

I am not sure that the bunker oil burned in the far western part of the country caused as much soot or just that it was spread/dissipated over much larger areas.  Alco and Baldwin diesels certainly put out clouds of black exhaust.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Re: St. Louis Refrigerator Car Company Refrigerator 10084

Nelson Moyer
 

Jim, I think you misinterpreted the brake pipes penetrating the center sill. They aren’t connected to the brake levers. For fishbelly center sills, it’s common to terminate the pipes from the air reservoir to the AB valve at the center sill, rather than running them all the way through. You’re seeing an optical illusion. And yes, there is a pipe from the brake cylinder to the AB valve, how else could you actuate the piston?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] St. Louis Refrigerator Car Company Refrigerator 10084

 

Lester,
  If I'm not mistaken you've made errors in the under body details.  Look at the
piping/rods running to the left most pivot bar (correct name?).  I don't think there
would be a rod/pipe running to the cylinder - nor the one from the right pivot
bar to the triple valve.  Am I wrong?
                                                                                                      - Jim


Re: St. Louis Refrigerator Car Company Refrigerator 10084

Jim Betz
 

Lester,
  If I'm not mistaken you've made errors in the under body details.  Look at the
piping/rods running to the left most pivot bar (correct name?).  I don't think there
would be a rod/pipe running to the cylinder - nor the one from the right pivot
bar to the triple valve.  Am I wrong?
                                                                                                      - Jim


Re: A few period boxcar roofs 1948 St Louis

Dave Parker
 

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 02:04 PM, Ken Adams wrote:
Was there an MCB/AAR specification for the location
8 inch minimum, 15 inch maximum from both edges of the roof (Safety Appliances section of the 1931 CBC.).
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: A few period boxcar roofs 1948 St Louis

Ken Adams
 

Just an observation on the positioning bend of the hand rails on the lateral running boards in the pictures. Most appear to be at least one full board in from the edge of the car roof.  Was there an MCB/AAR specification for the location.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Re: A few period boxcar roofs 1948 St Louis

Eric Hansmann
 

I don’t think railroads washed freight cars. I believe that is a hobby myth. 

Private owners like FGE, PFE, SFRD, HJH, and others may have washed their cars. 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Aug 22, 2021, at 3:57 PM, Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:

These photos of car roofs remind us of the prevalence of soot from coal burning in the steam and transition eras. Rain apparently didn't wash much off. Reduced maintenance in the depression era and then WW 2 with car shortages and less available labor for washing cars would contribute to the grimy appearance.  As an early 1950's modeler of the far west should all of the box cars more than a few months after building or a repaint have shown this dark coating.  Railroads weren't the only source of the soot as everything burned coal in large parts of the country. 

I am not sure that the bunker oil burned in the far western part of the country caused as much soot or just that it was spread/dissipated over much larger areas.  Alco and Baldwin diesels certainly put out clouds of black exhaust.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Re: A few period boxcar roofs 1948 St Louis

Ken Adams
 

These photos of car roofs remind us of the prevalence of soot from coal burning in the steam and transition eras. Rain apparently didn't wash much off. Reduced maintenance in the depression era and then WW 2 with car shortages and less available labor for washing cars would contribute to the grimy appearance.  As an early 1950's modeler of the far west should all of the box cars more than a few months after building or a repaint have shown this dark coating.  Railroads weren't the only source of the soot as everything burned coal in large parts of the country. 

I am not sure that the bunker oil burned in the far western part of the country caused as much soot or just that it was spread/dissipated over much larger areas.  Alco and Baldwin diesels certainly put out clouds of black exhaust.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Re: Cudahy 1501-1600

ROGER HINMAN
 

It is definitey not identical;  it uses a different underframe, the door sits higher off the side sill and it has a five rung ladder. (I’m sure there may be other differences).  I have seen a 1938 builder’s photo of CRLX1527, but I’m the unproven opinion this series may be a rebuild of a former CRLX car that GA bought, did a major rebuild and leased back to them.

Roger Hinman

On Aug 22, 2021, at 5:39 AM, nyc3001 . <nyc3001@...> wrote:

Does anyone know whether or not the CRLX 1501-1600 series (which was leased from GA) is identical to the Rapido reefer? I have a Rapido Cudahy reefer, but it is incorrectly lettered as a car in the 5501-6250 series. I'm wondering if the reefer can be saved by simply renumbering it.

Thanks,
Phil


Re: Cudahy 1501-1600

Douglas Harding
 

What makes you say the Rapido model is incorrectly lettered? The model is an excellent rendition of a General American meat reefer. And you say that Cudahy leased GA reefers, which is true. Just about all photos I have of Cudahy reefers are from the 5501-6250 series, which are GA cars.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 4:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Cudahy 1501-1600

 

Does anyone know whether or not the CRLX 1501-1600 series (which was leased from GA) is identical to the Rapido reefer? I have a Rapido Cudahy reefer, but it is incorrectly lettered as a car in the 5501-6250 series. I'm wondering if the reefer can be saved by simply renumbering it.

Thanks,
Phil


Re: St. Louis Refrigerator Car Company Refrigerator 10084

Bob Chaparro
 

The prototype refrigerator car belongs to the St. Louis Refrigerator Car Company, a private refrigerator car line established by Anheuser-Busch in 1878.

In 1919 the firm was acquired by Manufacturers Railway Company, another Anheuser-Busch subsidiary.

Almost certainly the load is beer in bottles, the reason for the placard.

This would be an easy placard to duplicate in HO and larger scales.

By the way, the black box stenciled to the lower left of the door reads “Tack Cards Here”. Of course, yard crews were not about to be told what to do.

Bob Chaparro


Hemet, CA


Re: D&H Paint Question

Tony Thompson
 

Nelson Moyer  wrote:
 
My approach is to paint as delivered, then weather according to car age and usage. The only initial deviation from that is to lighten or add oxide shades to simulate faded paint. Weathering doesn’t occur evenly on underframes or any other part of a freight car, so a solid  color umber underframe isn’t weathering.

Well said, Nelson. My perspective and practice entirely. 

Tony Thompson



Re: D&H Paint Question

Nelson Moyer
 

Yes, the underframes get pretty grungy and have a dirty muddy appearance. However, most of the roads in granger country painted the underframes and sometimes used black car cement. For those that painted the underframes and trucks freight car red e.g. CB&Q, color photos clearly show freight car red on brake components including brake rods and levers. Yes, they get dirty, but the FCR shows through. Roads using car cement painted the brake components black, and that shows up in color photos as well, especially on AB valves, brake cylinders and air reservoirs. So generically painting underframes burnt or raw umber may not be as prototypical as you think.

 

My approach is to paint as delivered, then weather according to car age and usage. The only initial deviation from that is to lighten or add oxide shades to simulate faded paint. Weathering doesn’t occur evenly on underframes or any other part of a freight car, so a solid  color umber underframe isn’t weathering.

 

That’s my two cents worth.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of anthony wagner
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 9:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Paint Question

 

Nelson, I generally paint my underframes and trucks either burnt umber or raw umber or a mix of the two. It is my observation that freight cars quickly loose the new look even nowadays and I'm sure it was the same in the steam era. Almost all the cars I see at grade crossings, except for the newest ones, have a distinct brownish look to the trucks and underframes. It is definitely not black. 

 

Thought I'd throw my two cents in. This is one of my pet peeves concerning modeling vs reality. Tony Wagner  

 

On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 08:56:45 AM CDT, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

 

 

The information I have says that D&H series 17601-17899 cars were painted freight car red on sides, ends and roof, but I have no information on the underframe and trucks. Were they freight car red or black?

 

Nelson Moyer


Re: D&H Paint Question

anthony wagner
 

Nelson, I generally paint my underframes and trucks either burnt umber or raw umber or a mix of the two. It is my observation that freight cars quickly loose the new look even nowadays and I'm sure it was the same in the steam era. Almost all the cars I see at grade crossings, except for the newest ones, have a distinct brownish look to the trucks and underframes. It is definitely not black. 

Thought I'd throw my two cents in. This is one of my pet peeves concerning modeling vs reality. Tony Wagner  

On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 08:56:45 AM CDT, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:


The information I have says that D&H series 17601-17899 cars were painted freight car red on sides, ends and roof, but I have no information on the underframe and trucks. Were they freight car red or black?

 

Nelson Moyer


Re: A few period boxcar roofs 1948 St Louis

Rene LaVoise
 

Charlie,

Yes, the TRRA ran two employee trains around each shift change (7a, 3p 11p).  First left Union Station going clock-wise around the TRRA, the Second train ran counter-clockwise. The second was known as the Relay Cab, the first was referred to as the Merchants Cab.

There is a good one page overview of this operation in the TRRAH&TS Issue 51-52 / Summer-Autumn 1999.

--
René LaVoise
Kirkwood, MO


D&H Paint Question

Nelson Moyer
 

The information I have says that D&H series 17601-17899 cars were painted freight car red on sides, ends and roof, but I have no information on the underframe and trucks. Were they freight car red or black?

 

Nelson Moyer


Cudahy 1501-1600

nyc3001 .
 

Does anyone know whether or not the CRLX 1501-1600 series (which was leased from GA) is identical to the Rapido reefer? I have a Rapido Cudahy reefer, but it is incorrectly lettered as a car in the 5501-6250 series. I'm wondering if the reefer can be saved by simply renumbering it.

Thanks,
Phil

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