Date   

Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

Tim O'Connor
 

Chris

ACF (?) numbered the designs of the underframe from the first year of production - That's what
I understood, at least. So ACF Type-21 1921, ACF Type-27, 1927, and so on. I think the model
is an ACF Type-11. It may also be an ARA Type II, as you describe - but photos shows ARA III
stencils.

The (?) means I don't know if these types are ACF builder designations, or railfan designations.

Tim O'Connor


On 9/6/2021 3:07 PM, Chris Barkan wrote:
A small correction/clarification to this thread title; I think that the F&C kit is intended to represent a Type II, as in roman numeral "two", not a Type 11, as in "eleven".

For those unfamiliar with the early tank car designations, I have excerpted several explanatory sentences from Tom Dalrymple's chapter on tank cars in the 1997 Car & Locomotive Cyclopedia.  Tom's history was in turn derived from Frank Heller's 1970 ASME paper entitled "Evolution of Tank Car Design Through Engineering" (In 1973 Heller republished the paper re-titled as "A history of tank cars" in the The Bulletin of the National Railway Historical Society, Vol. 38, No.1 pp 17-35, 51.)

"In 1903, the Master Car Builders' Association, composed of mechanical representatives of the railroads, and a representative of Standard Oil formed a Tank Car Committee and drafted the first recommended practices for the design and construction of tank cars. ... All cars built prior to 1903 were designated Class I and cars built thereafter were designated Class II"
"In 1917, the Master Car Builders' Association began to develop standards that sought to match the specifications of tank cars to the commodities that they were authorized to transport. Class I cars were restricted to non-flammable, non-hazardous commodities. Class II tank cars could no longer be built, and two new classes III and IV were established."
In 1927, when the ICC assumed authority for tank car specifications for hazardous commodities, "...ARA III became ICC 103, ARA IV became ICC 104, etc."
--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] ACF Type 11 Tankcar

Bruce Smith
 

Chris,

We've been down this road before. The F&C kit represents BOTH an AC&F type 11 and AAR/ARA type 2. Calling it an AC&F type 11 is FAR more descriptive than calling it an ARA type 2, since every tank built after the adoption on the type 2 designation up until the introduction of Type 3 circa 1917 (and some built to war emergency designs during WWII) was a "type 2". 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Chris Barkan <cplbarkan@...>
Sent: Monday, September 6, 2021 2:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] ACF Type 11 Tankcar
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
A small correction/clarification to this thread title; I think that the F&C kit is intended to represent a Type II, as in roman numeral "two", not a Type 11, as in "eleven".

For those unfamiliar with the early tank car designations, I have excerpted several explanatory sentences from Tom Dalrymple's chapter on tank cars in the 1997 Car & Locomotive Cyclopedia.  Tom's history was in turn derived from Frank Heller's 1970 ASME paper entitled "Evolution of Tank Car Design Through Engineering" (In 1973 Heller republished the paper re-titled as "A history of tank cars" in the The Bulletin of the National Railway Historical Society, Vol. 38, No.1 pp 17-35, 51.)

"In 1903, the Master Car Builders' Association, composed of mechanical representatives of the railroads, and a representative of Standard Oil formed a Tank Car Committee and drafted the first recommended practices for the design and construction of tank cars. ... All cars built prior to 1903 were designated Class I and cars built thereafter were designated Class II"
"In 1917, the Master Car Builders' Association began to develop standards that sought to match the specifications of tank cars to the commodities that they were authorized to transport. Class I cars were restricted to non-flammable, non-hazardous commodities. Class II tank cars could no longer be built, and two new classes III and IV were established."
In 1927, when the ICC assumed authority for tank car specifications for hazardous commodities, "...ARA III became ICC 103, ARA IV became ICC 104, etc."
--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL


Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

Chris Barkan
 

A small correction/clarification to this thread title; I think that the F&C kit is intended to represent a Type II, as in roman numeral "two", not a Type 11, as in "eleven".

For those unfamiliar with the early tank car designations, I have excerpted several explanatory sentences from Tom Dalrymple's chapter on tank cars in the 1997 Car & Locomotive Cyclopedia.  Tom's history was in turn derived from Frank Heller's 1970 ASME paper entitled "Evolution of Tank Car Design Through Engineering" (In 1973 Heller republished the paper re-titled as "A history of tank cars" in the The Bulletin of the National Railway Historical Society, Vol. 38, No.1 pp 17-35, 51.)

"In 1903, the Master Car Builders' Association, composed of mechanical representatives of the railroads, and a representative of Standard Oil formed a Tank Car Committee and drafted the first recommended practices for the design and construction of tank cars. ... All cars built prior to 1903 were designated Class I and cars built thereafter were designated Class II"
"In 1917, the Master Car Builders' Association began to develop standards that sought to match the specifications of tank cars to the commodities that they were authorized to transport. Class I cars were restricted to non-flammable, non-hazardous commodities. Class II tank cars could no longer be built, and two new classes III and IV were established."
In 1927, when the ICC assumed authority for tank car specifications for hazardous commodities, "...ARA III became ICC 103, ARA IV became ICC 104, etc."
--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL


Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] ACF Type 11 Tankcar

Bruce Smith
 

I didn't replace the rivets, like Bill did, but I did do a number of upgrades to the F&C kit. I did remove the rivet lines for the fradial courses on the bottom longitudinal course, as well as the bottom centerline rivets, as neither are accurate. One of the glaring omissions to me was the absence of the tank anchors. I also used precision scale brass handrail stanchions. I made the first one I built into a PRR TM8 class car, in company service. Shamelss plug - I wrote this build up in The Keystone Modeler, #61, August, 2008 😉

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of william darnaby <wdarnaby@...>
Sent: Monday, September 6, 2021 9:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] ACF Type 11 Tankcar
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
A few years back I finished three of these guys and they can be built into nice models.  The tank is crude because, as somebody mentioned, a brass model was used as the master resulting in the rivet detail being faint to nonexistent.  The solution is to scrape all of them off and replace with Archer rivets.  I am pretty sure I used Speedwitch decals for the DX and Mobil versions that I have.

Bill Darnaby



Re: Wa Sunshine Kits...

Tim O'Connor
 

Jack

Turn them into a massive NFT (non-fungible token). Everybody's doing it ! And then sell it for millions ! :-)

If it's in The Cloud, then it's safe. Or so we are led to believe. :-D

Tim O'Connor


On 9/5/2021 7:38 PM, Jack Burgess wrote:

I have about 3,800 historic photos of my prototype, the Yosemite Valley Railroad. There are actual photo prints of probably 25% of them. The rest are all high resolution scans.

 

Our Trust specifies that all of those photos (plus the scans of all of them) plus research documents, YV documents, etc. be donated to the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento. What if there is a house fire? There is a set of CDs of the photos in a fireproof safe. What if there is a massive earthquake and our entire town disappears? Other YV fans across the US (and in the Netherlands) have scans of every photo.

 

Just planning ahead…

 

Jack Burgess


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

Tim O'Connor
 


I agree. I probably would have thrown it against the wall before getting that far. :-D
I don't know why but frames remain very problematic with resin tank cars.

Tim O'


On 9/6/2021 9:58 AM, Paul Doggett via groups.io wrote:
Ian 

That’s looking really good.

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 6 Sep 2021, at 14:57, Ian MacKellar <cncaboose@...> wrote:

I recently finished construction of one of the F&C cars and it is waiting for my next paint multiple cars day. In typical fashion for F&C the directions were almost nonexistent. Some parts did not fit, in particular the bottom of the tank casting took a lot of work to get it to fit to the main tank. The main tank casting has a serious blemish on one side. Several smaller parts were just plain missing or the castings were bad. I used Tichy K brake and end hand rails, Yarmouth brake levers and Carmer cut levers, Evergreen strips for the tank bands, and A-line corner steps bent for side mounting. If you want a challenge, this is the kit for you. 
<P9060005.JPG>
<P9060007.JPG>
<P9060006.JPG>


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

O Fenton Wells
 

Looks good Steve
Nicely done
fenton

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 12:23 PM Steve SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

My version, Ted’s decals. I have two, one the F&C and one the Sunset. I purchased the Sunset painted white with Ethyl paint scheme, stripped it, added underbody details, and painted it.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ian MacKellar
Sent: Monday, September 6, 2021 10:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ACF Type 11 Tankcar

 

DX with the Speedwitch decals



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

Charlie Duckworth
 

Ian
thanks for the review; after building the high walkway tankcar a year ago I just couldn’t put myself through building another F&C tankcar and it didn’t have near the issues you mentioned with the Type 11 kit. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

Steve SANDIFER
 

My version, Ted’s decals. I have two, one the F&C and one the Sunset. I purchased the Sunset painted white with Ethyl paint scheme, stripped it, added underbody details, and painted it.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ian MacKellar
Sent: Monday, September 6, 2021 10:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ACF Type 11 Tankcar

 

DX with the Speedwitch decals


Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

Ian MacKellar
 

DX with the Speedwitch decals


Re: Speedwitch/National scale car decals

Joseph
 

I have a partial set, lettered one car.  You can have it if you want it
Joe Binish
Mstl852 at gmail dot com

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 9:10 AM Paul Doggett via groups.io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi

Has anyone got a set of Speedwitch/national scale car decals for B&O wagon top boxcars set D130  they are willing to sell?

Thank you
Paul Doggett.    England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿






Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

O Fenton Wells
 

Nice looking build Ian, what car line are you going to paint it?


On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 9:57 AM Ian MacKellar <cncaboose@...> wrote:
I recently finished construction of one of the F&C cars and it is waiting for my next paint multiple cars day. In typical fashion for F&C the directions were almost nonexistent. Some parts did not fit, in particular the bottom of the tank casting took a lot of work to get it to fit to the main tank. The main tank casting has a serious blemish on one side. Several smaller parts were just plain missing or the castings were bad. I used Tichy K brake and end hand rails, Yarmouth brake levers and Carmer cut levers, Evergreen strips for the tank bands, and A-line corner steps bent for side mounting. If you want a challenge, this is the kit for you. 



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

william darnaby
 

A few years back I finished three of these guys and they can be built into nice models.  The tank is crude because, as somebody mentioned, a brass model was used as the master resulting in the rivet detail being faint to nonexistent.  The solution is to scrape all of them off and replace with Archer rivets.  I am pretty sure I used Speedwitch decals for the DX and Mobil versions that I have.

Bill Darnaby



Speedwitch/National scale car decals

Paul Doggett
 

Hi

Has anyone got a set of Speedwitch/national scale car decals for B&O wagon top boxcars set D130 they are willing to sell?

Thank you
Paul Doggett. England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

Paul Doggett
 

Ian 

That’s looking really good.

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 6 Sep 2021, at 14:57, Ian MacKellar <cncaboose@...> wrote:

I recently finished construction of one of the F&C cars and it is waiting for my next paint multiple cars day. In typical fashion for F&C the directions were almost nonexistent. Some parts did not fit, in particular the bottom of the tank casting took a lot of work to get it to fit to the main tank. The main tank casting has a serious blemish on one side. Several smaller parts were just plain missing or the castings were bad. I used Tichy K brake and end hand rails, Yarmouth brake levers and Carmer cut levers, Evergreen strips for the tank bands, and A-line corner steps bent for side mounting. If you want a challenge, this is the kit for you. 
<P9060005.JPG>
<P9060007.JPG>
<P9060006.JPG>


Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

Ian MacKellar
 

I recently finished construction of one of the F&C cars and it is waiting for my next paint multiple cars day. In typical fashion for F&C the directions were almost nonexistent. Some parts did not fit, in particular the bottom of the tank casting took a lot of work to get it to fit to the main tank. The main tank casting has a serious blemish on one side. Several smaller parts were just plain missing or the castings were bad. I used Tichy K brake and end hand rails, Yarmouth brake levers and Carmer cut levers, Evergreen strips for the tank bands, and A-line corner steps bent for side mounting. If you want a challenge, this is the kit for you. 


C&NW Emergency Box Cars- Black Ends

Scott H. Haycock
 

Folks,

I'm working on a model of one of these cars, but I've noticed that some of these cars received  black ends at some point.

I'm modeling 1959, so I'm wondering when this repaint occurred, and if I should consider this when I paint my model.


Re: ACF Type 11 Tankcar

Charlie Duckworth
 

Thanks. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Wa Sunshine Kits...

Jack Burgess
 

I have about 3,800 historic photos of my prototype, the Yosemite Valley Railroad. There are actual photo prints of probably 25% of them. The rest are all high resolution scans.

 

Our Trust specifies that all of those photos (plus the scans of all of them) plus research documents, YV documents, etc. be donated to the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento. What if there is a house fire? There is a set of CDs of the photos in a fireproof safe. What if there is a massive earthquake and our entire town disappears? Other YV fans across the US (and in the Netherlands) have scans of every photo.

 

Just planning ahead…

 

Jack Burgess


Re: Sunshine Kits

mel perry
 

jim:
amen, been there twice, PITA
,-(
mel perry

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021, 2:17 PM np328 <jcdworkingonthenp@...> wrote:
       It is very possible these came in as an estate collection, after the owner had passed on.  If so, I would hope that the builder got some satisfaction for their money. 

Of the instructions, perhaps these were all placed in a "secure location", perhaps a notebook, away and apart from the models.

     To expand on that, I'll explain with my own experiences: My brother and I when younger and more free, would go off on adventures and take pictures, pencil down track arrangements at places that looked good to model - someday. We were moved by Paul Larson and the articles and sites he used to document for publications. Many of the places, railroads no longer exist.
      Our father was older by then and recently retired, and would often ask if he could look over these and we left them with him. When younger, he had put the railroading bug into us and it seemed a nice way to return the favor. Photos and other items got stored at our fathers house and that seemed OK. Fast foreword and I get married, later my brother gets married, these items our dad would take out from time to time. Move decades foreword again to several years ago, my brother passed away, dad is quite old and passes away at 95. My mother moves to a retirement home and while my wife and I are on vacation,....my sisters get the bug to clean out the house. 
     My father had photos he had taken over the 30s, 40s, 50s, of freight cars, many scenes like Union station in Chicago, or the C&NW lakefront Milwaukee station, much interurban stuff of the Chicago-Milwaukee area, Denver, Detroit, points east, and elsewhere. Much stuff get tossed including guess what of my brother and mine. 
     It did not mean anything to my sisters nor the people who assisted them. Mostly all tossed. 

     For people who have been through these events, the above will remind them of times they may not care to revisit.     There is a lesson here for those who care to see it.   

 At least the kits in Pasadena got saved. And are bringing happiness to others.                                                                                                   James Dick  - Roseville, MN  


 

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